Gov Plans to reduce speed limits

Timing belt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121079824#Comment_121079824

If people stick within the speed limits…. But people don’t because they know that outside of urban areas, motorways and main roads it is practically impossible to enforce as roads are to narrow for a speed van or Garda to stand on side of the road.

magicbastarder

my point had nothing to do with speed *limits*.

a rather obvious illustration. i am driving along an N road at 100km/h, at the limit. someone pulls out of a side road, without looking, in front of me, and i crash into them; say i'd dropped to 50km/h after emergency braking.

it's a simple no-brainer that if i'd been doing 80km/h instead, the chances of me avoding the collision entirely would have been improved, but even with the collision taking place, it would have been notably less severe. my point is that even though my speed had nothing to do with the cause of the collision, it has a significant effect on the outcome.

TedBundysDriver

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121078909#Comment_121078909

What carnage? Road deaths are massively down compared to 20 years ago.

magicbastarder

a deeper dive into the stats than the bare number of fatalities would be interesting. have pedestrian deaths dropped at the same rate as car occupancy deaths? have pedestrian deaths dropped possibly because people are less likely to be out walking?

we know two large factors in the reduction of car occupancy deaths anyway - a massive falloff in drink driving, and safer cars (though that benefit is mainly for the occupants).

if, for example, people will prefer to drive rather than walk because it's safer to drive; yes, road deaths may be down. but that could be a reflection of roads being more dangerous for pedestrians now; so the figures could be counter-intuitive.

markodaly

As part of this initative, we should also seriously raise the fines for speeding.

At the moment the fine for speeding is a paltry €160.

In Australia, you have the following.

If you challenge a fine and go to court, but get a conviction that is a blanket $2200 fine.

That would soften people's cough a bit in relation to going over the speed limit.

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121080025#Comment_121080025

Yeah cause is what I obviously meant

I'll answer the question, they were killed by bad roads so that's 9 of the 127 deaths or 7% of the road deaths not caused by speeding and that's without anybody looking deeper into the other deaths

In fact lets make it easy, using google, can you find just 20 deaths caused by speeding this year?

topal

Speed limit reduction without enforcement is pointless.

It seems the only way people will slow down is if there is the possibility of a fine or damage to their vehicles (speed bumps, traffic calming etc.)

Sam Russell

There is a experiments test of average speed enforcement on a strip of the M7 near Nenagh that must have reported by now.

Why do they not erect gantries along all the motorways at regular intervals and have them check speed, motor tax, NCT, and insurance? Now if my speed is above the maximum allowed then a fine in the post. The same applies to any other offence detected.

Currently, the test strip keeps speed down between the two gantries. But if gantries further up are detecting average speed measured between any two gantries, there is no way to exceed the limit in any big way.

The same could apply to traffic lights, so driving through a red light becomes a little less likely. However, lights need to be sequenced correctly. Giving 30 seconds green followed by three minutes of red is just daft.

Widespread use of autodetection using cameras would make a huge difference to behaviour.

It might also increase the attraction of public transport.

magicbastarder

no, because the inquests likely haven't happened yet. i'm not going to pretend to possess knowledge of fatalities which you seem confident in doing.

but also; you seem to be responding to a different point, one i was not making. the post of mine you quoted stated that regardless of primary cause, slower speeds make it easier to avoid collisions or result in less severe collisions EVEN IF excess speed was not a cause.

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121080148#Comment_121080148

What makes a road bad? Isn't it a pity that there is no way to navigate these bad roads when driving?

magicbastarder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121080127#Comment_121080127

i prefer my idea. within one week of being notified of an offence which results in penalty points, you must surrender your car for a number of days matching the number of points now accrued on your licence. so if you're caught speeding and that brings the number of points up to ten, you lose the use of your car for ten days.

many people can shrug off a €160 fine, many can't; so that's not a equitable way of levying a punishment. temporarily taking their car off them is more equitable.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121080127#Comment_121080127

The day fine approach is a better option imho. Its based on your income and assigns X number of days of income to an offense.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Day-fine

topal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121080165#Comment_121080165

automatic number plate detection (APNR)  is in loads of places in the UK and the fines are timely and pointless to dispute.

Wishlist for APNR:

Bus lane abuse

Parking on footpaths

Timing belt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121080165#Comment_121080165

There are enough bridges to mount them on…but will this reduce accidents or deaths probably not because they are generally not happening on the motorway and when they do occur it’s a driver driving the wrong way, falling asleep at the wheel, stopping on the side of the motorway, driving to close to car in front etc.

now try and put average speed cameras down a country road that has multiple turn offs and on… you would need 10,000’s of cameras and as a result not an option. And it is on these roads the fatalities are generally happening on the motorway

the.red.baron

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121076429#Comment_121076429

that is mental, good to know, drive on

markodaly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121080198#Comment_121080198

That would be difficult to police.

We do what they do in Scandinavia, link speeding fines to one's Salary.

markodaly

I see a lot of commentary about enforcement options, but surely enforcement comes with a deployment of better tech like they have done in other countries.

https://www.fleetnews.co.uk/news/car-industry-news/2023/08/17/ai-cameras-that-can-spot-mobile-phone-use-prove-successful-in-trials#:~:text=The%20Acusensus%20system%20is%20equipped,were%20without%20a%20seat%20belt.

An issue though, is how to police rural roads which is very hard given we have so much of them. But this is where one could deploy ad-hoc speed cameras randomly and through the book at offenders.

magicbastarder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121080273#Comment_121080273

possibly. i was thinking that instead of them having to bring it to a yard somewhere, there could be a team who visit your house and clamp it in your driveway with an extra fancy secure clamp.

Jakey Rolling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121079306#Comment_121079306

Given that many newer cars have multiple built in cameras and accelerometers, I'd be wholly in favour of all data from these being available to Garda in case of a collision. So if you're diving like a muppet and cause a collison your are going to be found out. Would also lessen the instances where joint blame is apportioned by the insurance companies, where clearly one party is at fault. Would be cheap as chips to mandate that a all new vehicles have built in cameras.

Macy0161

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121080036#Comment_121080036

A motobike cop could easily enforce from a gate entrance or the commonly available trailer mounted APNR camera or from fixed cameras (as mentioned before - the cameras can be moved between fixed "boxes").

The only reason they aren't enforced is lack of gardai, and lack of political will/ pressure to use the camera technology that has been in use in most countries for decades.

Cookiemunster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121080355#Comment_121080355

How would that work if the car has multiple users? Or if the offending driver is not the primary (named) user of the car? You're are penalising the good driver for the crimes of the bad driver. It's not something that could work because of this.

magicbastarder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121080371#Comment_121080371

so be it. it might make the person who owns the car more circumspect about who they allow to use it/lend it to.

i would not lend my car to someone who i didn't think was a responsible driver. this would be an extension of that.

to partly address your concern, it could be structured so that the impounding happens only after a second offence, say.

it's certainly not a perfect solution, but if you want a means of punishment which will make people behave, i think this is as good as i can think of.

magicbastarder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121080414#Comment_121080414

what is the impact on me if i accrue nine points? or 11? essentially it's just financial. higher insurance premiums. unless you hit 12 points, the only impact is financial so until that point (pun unintended) it's still not equitable.

Timing belt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121080362#Comment_121080362

There are only something like 120 motorbikes in Ireland and most will be based in urban locations or used escorting wide loads and politicians etc…

Plus I would like to see them try and park a heavy bike like that off the Road in some boggy gateway.. would make for great viewing.

As for parking a trailer with APNR cameras the roads not wide enough…it would be a hazard because there wouldn’t be enough room for 2 cars on the road. Remember these are country roads not main roads in the country.

yes fixed cameras may be a possibility until harvest season comes and you have two tractors and trailer meet on the road and fixed camera is flattened.

I agree there aren’t enough Gardai or resources…would you be happy to pay an extra grand or two in taxes to address it and even then do you want them enforcing speed limits or addressing crime…

Cookiemunster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121080404#Comment_121080404

Best of luck getting that into law. It would be shot down straight away.

magicbastarder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121080485#Comment_121080485

no, never any points. i did once have to show my licence at a garda station after running a red. and the funny thing was the light went amber just as i was approaching it, i glanced in my rearview mirror and there was a car stupidly close behind me - maybe half a car length - so i made a quick decision not to stop (in case he rear ended me), so i reckon it went red just as i went through. turns out it was a cop car.

KrisW1001

Mods, Any chance of moving this thread to Motoring? Speed enforcement policies aren't really about road infrastructure, and they degenerate quickly into shite...

whisky_galore

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121080047#Comment_121080047

Typical shur tis grand response.

Do you think the recent high profile road deaths are acceptable in your opinion? That there was no way they could have been avoided?

TedBundysDriver

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121080676#Comment_121080676

People should take personal responsibility for their actions. I have no idea what caused the recent road deaths.

Once again road deaths are way way down on that of 20 years ago.

corcaigh07

How many extra cars are on the road as well? Knee jerk from the Government and yep, Eamon Ryan will not hesitate to use a pandemic or recent trend of road deaths to shape what he ultimately wants.