What are people's reactions to today's proposed speed limit changes?

amacca

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121078589#Comment_121078589

I hadn't read this when I posted but yep, my sentiments exactly

Also the tosspots know they are going to get a kicking next time around and

A) want to heap more bullshit on the plebs as they see them

B) want to give a bit of kicking back...even the tone of some of the statements was very you've all been bold and will have to sit on the naughty step

C) Absolutely don't want to acknowledge other contributory factors or do anything difficult like go after certain cohorts and tackle problems...punish scrotes involved, dig a bit deeper into contributory factors, go after the eejits with the dropped suspension hairdryer engined, coke can exhausted **** spec golfs with the bodywork leaving a layer of paint on the road, tackle specific problem areas with reduced limits, do remedial works on small problem areas (I know of several spots on a local road with dangerously off camber surfacing) etc etc etc....but know its more fines, more regs more money harvesting and hand wringing about why the situation isn't improving...but let's continue doing the same **** that didn't work before

D) incompetence

E) Leave a .ess for the next gombeens stepping up to the plate

Some combo

Plain stupid, rather than getting councils to perform a review of the roads in their area and reduce speed limits in high risk areas we get a blanket reduction in speed limits.

tesla_newbie

usual “ we must be seen to be doing something “ by FF and FG ( following the recent high profile Tipperary tragedies) but the Greens can’t get enough of nanny statism

its not necessary, we have a low rate of road deaths relative to most countries, we offer an Air BnB service and our guests always comment on how civilised drivers are here

DownByTheGarden

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121078920#Comment_121078920

I think you might be right there. It was so fast that all the officials were coming out on that one and even on the news reports and interviews they were all saying "lets remember that the driver did absolutely nothing wrong here. It was probably the weather or the weight of the car. It wasnt his fault."

That kind of statement spreading out among the airwaves would not normally happen. There would be an investogation as to the cause and then the statement would be made if it was true. I remember sitting listening to the various reports and interviews on this think how odd, there must be a connection to some gardai or powerful people for this statement to be doing the rounds the day after the crash.

randd1

Just because a road is 80km/ph, it doesn't mean everyone actually drives at 80 km/ph on those roads constantly. It's a limit you're not meant to cross, not a legal requirement to drive at that speed.

When I'm driving on those roads, or even some parts of the national roads, which is every day, I rarely hit the 80 or 100 km/ph speed limits apart from straight sections with a clear view of what's ahead, simply because a) I know the road and know the dangerous areas and slow down accordingly and b) I'm paying attention to the road, and what dangers may pop up. Which is the same for pretty much every driver in the country every day.

I would suggest the people talking about the speed limit changes don't regularly drive these type of roads because if they did, they'd understand that.

I would also suggest it's mostly political posturing with no real intent to change anything at all, and done solely for the purpose of pretending to give a damn about road safety in the aftermath of a week which is very much the exception rather than the rule in terms of the road carnage, ie politicians using tragedy for self promotion.

Ash.J.Williams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121079585#Comment_121079585

It's similar to the kicking men were getting after the murder of a white person last year

Photobox

Totally agree its a kneejerk reaction. Typical of our government to be seen to do something. Like everything. There is a stretch of country road I drive regularly. Its built up with lots of houses and a shop. Its a 50 limit, signs everywhere reminding you, think of the community etc, most times there is a driver right up behind me when I do the 50. Brake at all and they are going into the back of you. They could make it a 20 limit and nothing would change. Unless people stop doing this nothing will change. Which is never.

howiya

This isn't a kneejerk reaction. The publication of it may be kneejerk but its been coming regardless.

"The speed limit review is a key part of the Government’s road safety strategy. A review group was established in late 2021 chaired by the Department of Transport and including representatives of the NTA, TII, local authorities, the RSA and An Garda Síochána."

To the point made by @[Deleted User] this would have given them plenty of time to review individual roads rather than implement a blanket reduction. However they clearly just want to take the lazy way out.

I'd be surprised if this gets introduced before the next general election.

BrianD3

It certainly seems like a typical kneejerk reaction. Now let's call a spade a spade here - the "unspeakable tragedy" in Cashel recently where the driver managed to crash into a wall roof first on a narrow road just outside a town killing himself and 3 others was probably caused by utter recklessness, not by the speed limit being too high. And for the Clonmel crash where three back seat passengers were killed with both in the front seats surviving, one would have to question if there were seatbelts being worn.

Out of interest I had a look at about the top 20 road death stories on RTE's website in 2023. There are some patterns here - single vehicle crashes, often in the early hours of the morning. Possible lack of seatbelt wearing. Underage children driving vehicles. Would lowering speed limits in a blanket manner reduce deaths from these type of incidents?

List of reports:

Report on inquest of the incident where a 12 year old boy was killed (in 2022) while driving his parents car. Described as a "tragic accident". 

Man,50s, dies following two-car collision in Co Kerry

Boy, 13, dies in Kilkenny road crash. Back seat passenger. Seatbelt?

Man dies in Co Kilkenny road crash. Single vehicle crash at 1:30 am.

Boy, 8, dies following road collision in Cork. Struck by a car while cycling at a pedestrian crossing. Would lower speed limits have helped? Why was the boy cycling at a pedestrian crossing? Was the driver paying attention?

Teenage best friends killed in Monaghan crash on way to Debs. Driver survived. Seatbelts?

Man dies after getting out of his car on M6 in Galway. Struck by a HGV. Was the HGV driver paying attention? It is very dangerous to get out of your car on a motorway.

Boy and girl, 14, killed in Galway car crash. Other occupants of car were also aged 13/14 so we have an underage driver.

Woman, 21, dies after being struck by garda car in Donegal. happened at 3:15 am

Two men in 20s killed in Co Mayo road crash. happened "shortly before midnight"

Two motorcyclists die in separate road crashes in Cork and Westmeath. One collided with a tractor.

Teenager dies in Cork crash, matter referred to GSOC. Car travelling in wrong direction on a motorway.

Man, 40s, killed in Roscommon road crash. Single vehicle. 

Woman in her 20s dies in Co Meath road crash. Single vehicle. Happened at 1:25 am.

Teenage girl, elderly man killed in northeast road crashes. Girl was travelling in a tractor driven by another teenager. How many seats and seatbelts are there in a tractor?

Man in his 30s dies following road crash in Co Offaly. Single vehicle. Happened between 5 and 5:30 am.

Woman dies, two injured, in Mayo road crash. Single vehicle. 9:15 pm

Man in his 20s dies in single-vehicle road crash in Co Galway

Man dies following road collision in Co Kerry. Single vehicle

Three teenagers die after car enters water in Galway. happened at 2:40 am.

School pays tribute to boy, 13, who died in Mayo tractor crash. 13 year old was driving the tractor.

MegamanBoo

Won't be enforced so not much of a difference.

I do think limits are too high in rural areas and town centers/estates.

A lot of people here calling for roads to be individually assessed and tbh can't see it working or being worthwhile.

There's a stretch near where I used to live that used to be 80 for about 10k or so. Not it's broken up to 6 or 7 different zones, some 80, some 60. To be honest it's near impossible to keep track. Especially when hedges grow over signs.

amacca

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121079945#Comment_121079945

Not a hope anyone would engage some critical thinking skills and question if a blanket reduction in speed limits will achieve the square root of sweet **** all except make for a nice press release and the warm and fuzzy afterglow of being seen to be doing something.

It's all a depressing game with useful idiots being moved around the board by simultaneous arse licking and arse covering gombeenoids.

downtheroad

Here are some very simple ideas that could be implemented to increase road safety:

1) red light traffic cameras at every junction

2) automated number plate recognition to fine drivers who break rules of the road

3) uber/lyft/bolt etc - give people a cost effective taxi alternative, particularly in rural areas to eradicate drink driving

4) driving licence refresher course every 10 years on renewal. No more giving someone a licence from age 18 til death with no cpd/test in between.

5) proper driving bans for motorists who break rules of the road. Get offenders off the roads.

Damien360

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121081292#Comment_121081292

1. Every red light ? Major junctions absolutely

2. ANPR everywhere for tax and insurance non compliance with automatic fines (NI do it on roundabouts outside Tesco). Those that don't care and don't pay, bailiffs to remove items from home.

3. Good idea. Not sure how insurance works for someone doing that. Is it an open chasm for claims ?

4. Won't happen. To be honest, experience is gained in miles covered rather than years. We can barely implement current new drivers. It would be a bureaucratic nightmare.

5. How many times do you read driving ban and the person has no licence due to ban or never had one. Taking cash, large fines and when you can't/won't pay then bailiffs is the only deterrent.

If the current laws were actually enforced instead of sure it will be grand, then we might not need half of the above.

It's still an overreaction. Deaths are consistently falling.

The inquest for the causes of the current crashes will be at least 12 months away. My son tells me the location of the first crash with the four kids is a well known slab often used by boy racers because it's actually very slippy. Easy to get the back end out. Fixing the road rather than applying a low limit will do more to prevent further deaths.

_Kaiser_

Seems it'll be discussed at upcoming party think-in's with many rural TDs already reporting a lot of vocal opposition.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/it-will-turn-every-vehicle-into-a-tractor-rural-tds-voice-concerns-at-proposed-speed-reductions/a1472342007.html

Carlow-Kilkenny Fianna Fáil TD John McGuinness spoke for several of his colleagues when he said: “I think they are going to have to look at this again and the whole roads issue.

“Are people who are speeding going to take their foot off the pedal because they see a new sign? I doubt it very much.”

He said he had received numerous complaints, with some TDs saying the public perceived the move as a “knee-jerk response” to carnage on the roads.

Can only hope that common sense breaks out...

• Reduction of limits on actual boreens where even 50 km/h is pushing it, never mind 80 km/h, and other roads where it makes sense (not wide carriageways or R/N-routes that are almost motorway grade as is)
• Enforcement in these areas rather than just racking up the stats on motorways (statistically the safest roads anyway)
• Greater focus on detecting things that lead to these events - dangerous overtaking, drink/drug driving, mobile phone use, lack of seatbelt use etc
• Investment in mental health supports and urgent supports to address those "single driver, one car involved, late at night" incidents
• Greater investment in driver training to include multi-lane high speed usage (if not motorways then certainly the next N-route equivalent)
• Harsher penalties for driving without insurance and/or a license

.. and other measures like these that would ACTUALLY make an impact.

Guess it'll depend on how much "noise" is made about it though. That's the only way the public are represented in this country.

Blarney_man

Driving skills in Ireland are shocking, especially in 60+ people, I would reduce it even further until they all pass an exam they never did.

Montage of Feck

The usual Irish solution to bring in new laws despite the current laws not being enforced.

Glencarraig

Absolute waste of time, never mind the cost of replacing all the speed limit signs, I bet Chambers hasn't even costed it yet.......never mind sure it will be done on overtime. I remember a number of years some "hot air" minister stating that "uninsured drivers will go to jail", I doubt that even one driver has seen the inside of a cell for that........A certain Kilkenny woman named Carey comes to mind. total bolloc*s.

Damien360

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121081968#Comment_121081968

Pretty sure you have to get to people in their late 70's to find those that never did a test. My father in law is one and he's scary on the road. Has driven everything except artics because he ticked all the boxes on application.

It's far from just older people. They tend to drive slower but I often find they are a hazard entering a motorway. Seen many stop at end of ramp and look over the shoulder before continuing.

Phone use is endemic in younger people all the way into their 50's. Texting/mailing is a curse. Truck drivers are also very poor for this. Easily spotted in the big mirrors, not so much in the new camera type mirror ! Watch for the lane drift in cars and trucks to know what's happening. A quick glance as you pass and it's obvious.

Seat belt or lack thereof is common in those in their 20's. Know two with seat belt clips with no belt to defeat the warning sound. Have seen many take off the belt and put it behind them as they drive so they can lay the seat into a dentist chair position. Looks cool until you are in a crash I suppose.

Driving in the right lane down the length of a motorway is the preserve of N drivers and Mammy wagons. Especially on M8 and M9.

We have a new wave of emigrants in the last few years with very questionable driving skills. I don't know if we just accept your foreign license. Does anyone check validity of a licence from a non EU country or even a EU one ?

Mad excess speed is not as common as you think on motorways but it's terrible in low speed 50kmph zones. For whatever reason we concentrate on motorways for speed detection despite their known safety.

Driving skills are better than Spain or Portugal but woeful compared to Germany. It's all relative. Not sure what driver education exists after you get your license in any of those countries but it might be the same as ourselves and it's non existent. Enforcement of existing laws would do more to help than knee jerk reaction. But that requires more gardai and more money.

magicbastarder

Pretty sure you have to get to people in their late 70's to find those that never did a test.

the amnesty was in 1979. so anyone born before the early 60s would have been in a position to avail of it - so they'd only have to be early 60s and older.

NIMAN

The bottom line in all thus are the drivers. The human input into the tragedies.

We hear after crashes that "it was a dangerous road" or "the conditions were poor". So how come loads more crashes didn't happen? Its because it was human error. Drivers were simply going too fast for the road, the conditions etc. Driving safely relies on people being responsible. And slowing down when conditions are bad.

I often think when I'm on the 80km and 100km roads, that in reality you shouldn't actually need speed limit signs if drivers were responsible. You'd drive at a speed which you know, and which feels, safe. Sometimes I drive these roads and settle at a certain speed, without looking at my speedo, and most times it at the limit or slightly below.

tinytobe

There are two "jokes" on Irish road singns every foreigner recognizes when driving in Ireland:

1) A narrow country lane, not even asphalt, speed limit set to 80 km/h and no overtaking. With a bit of sense, one can't even do 40 on these roads, let alone overtaking

2) After having arrived on the ferry and driven for 20 to 30 minutes through a city, out in the country, the sign finally comes: "in Ireland you have to drive on the left" in all langages, French, German, etc... Well, if you have gotten this far into Ireland and driving on the right, one would either have caused a lot of accidents, or have been extremely lucky not to have.....

NewbridgeIR

I have no issue with lower limits on the condition that they release proper reports on the recent accidents and all future ones.

i.e what speed was the guy doing in Clonmel that caused his car to flip over & hit a wall.

What was the seatbelt status of all the passengers?

”But what about the families?”

”F*ck them”

StudentDad

This government initiative is providing yet another incentive to get rid of the car and it's associated expenses and headaches and switch over to our fantastic public transport network of buses and trains. You know the reliable, cheap, clean and frequent bus and train services that get you anywhere you want to go quickly and efficiently? Perhaps the govt. have another motive.

ednwireland

let's not look at the rear wheel drive car upside down with (as far as I can tell) different tread patterns on the rear axle in a heavy shower. solution blanket reduction of speed limits

JPCN1

Another Jnr minister completely out of their depth and a refusal/inability to police the laws we already have… solution more draconian limit’s which will be ignored by the same cohort who currently ignore them and the rest of us are punished…

Around Dublin I very often see people looking at their mobiles whilst driving sone very fancy cars that would have all the hands free tech on board. These cars typically move very slowly, driver with head down, don’t move when lights turn green, and stop last second when lights turn red. I see it around my parts in Dundrum, Churchtown, Milltown all the time. Too many drivers have given no attention to the road in front of them.

wildwillow

Appropriate speed limit are needed, but a good driver will drive according to the road conditions.

Slow drivers are a source of danger. I was behind a car doing no more than 40 an an 80 km road. I knew the motorway was in 5 km and I wasn’t in a hurry so didn’t mind that there was no opportunity to overtake as it was a busy time.

However the car behind was tailgating me dangerously and was obviously in a hurry. Should I have overtaken the slow driver in an unsafe manner to allow the following car attempt an overtake? Should I have pulled in to allow him pass? I considered both but either way the time saved for it would be less than a minute. Maybe I saved a crash or maybe I further frustrated the driver? I did keep my distance from the car in front but meant two cars were in the way.

At the roundabout the leading driver hesitated too long and then drove onto it too late, causing the car already on the roundabout to brake. The driver was neither very young or elderly, just incompetent or completely unaware.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121089959#Comment_121089959

Yeah, air accident reports are always published in fine detail as to the cause/causes, down to pilot factors. Doesn’t matter if it’s a 747 or a Cessna 172 with a lone named pilot who has already most likely been publicly named at the time of the accident. Everyone can read and learn about all the contributory factors. I remember long back motor accident causes were reported in a little detail in the newspapers, including people related to me/family. “Defective motorbike”, “driver not wearing seatbelt” were remarked if accidents back in the 1960s and 1970s. Indeed I was doing genealogy research and checked out a newspaper dating from 1912, early days of Dublin motoring, my mother’s uncle had been travelling at the dangerous speed of 26mph rather than an advised 20mph wet semi conditions, all on board had drink taken, the uncle’s friend ended up almost decapitated as he was thrown against top of screen, local woman passing by tried to control blood loss as victim was taken in same car to Baggot St Hospital but had died. The uncle was convicted but after some agreement with judge he was sent to Australia and told never to attempt to communicate with family again. Such was the amount of detail.

Nowadays you hear of terrible accidents but there never seems to be the same reporting on the factors that caused the accident. Of course sone would be suspected of being suicides.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121090062#Comment_121090062

By that logic the current speed limits must also be a punishment?

JPCN1

current speed limits are about right generally… some room to look at individual roads instances rather than the beloved blanket…

Properly police what we have and I don’t believe we’d need to have this conversation… Besides the odd speed van road policing seems virtually nil and I drive a lot…