What are people's reactions to today's proposed speed limit changes?

tinytobe

There are two "jokes" on Irish road singns every foreigner recognizes when driving in Ireland:

1) A narrow country lane, not even asphalt, speed limit set to 80 km/h and no overtaking. With a bit of sense, one can't even do 40 on these roads, let alone overtaking

2) After having arrived on the ferry and driven for 20 to 30 minutes through a city, out in the country, the sign finally comes: "in Ireland you have to drive on the left" in all langages, French, German, etc... Well, if you have gotten this far into Ireland and driving on the right, one would either have caused a lot of accidents, or have been extremely lucky not to have.....

NewbridgeIR

I have no issue with lower limits on the condition that they release proper reports on the recent accidents and all future ones.

i.e what speed was the guy doing in Clonmel that caused his car to flip over & hit a wall.

What was the seatbelt status of all the passengers?

”But what about the families?”

”F*ck them”

StudentDad

This government initiative is providing yet another incentive to get rid of the car and it's associated expenses and headaches and switch over to our fantastic public transport network of buses and trains. You know the reliable, cheap, clean and frequent bus and train services that get you anywhere you want to go quickly and efficiently? Perhaps the govt. have another motive.

ednwireland

let's not look at the rear wheel drive car upside down with (as far as I can tell) different tread patterns on the rear axle in a heavy shower. solution blanket reduction of speed limits

JPCN1

Another Jnr minister completely out of their depth and a refusal/inability to police the laws we already have… solution more draconian limit’s which will be ignored by the same cohort who currently ignore them and the rest of us are punished…

Around Dublin I very often see people looking at their mobiles whilst driving sone very fancy cars that would have all the hands free tech on board. These cars typically move very slowly, driver with head down, don’t move when lights turn green, and stop last second when lights turn red. I see it around my parts in Dundrum, Churchtown, Milltown all the time. Too many drivers have given no attention to the road in front of them.

wildwillow

Appropriate speed limit are needed, but a good driver will drive according to the road conditions.

Slow drivers are a source of danger. I was behind a car doing no more than 40 an an 80 km road. I knew the motorway was in 5 km and I wasn’t in a hurry so didn’t mind that there was no opportunity to overtake as it was a busy time.

However the car behind was tailgating me dangerously and was obviously in a hurry. Should I have overtaken the slow driver in an unsafe manner to allow the following car attempt an overtake? Should I have pulled in to allow him pass? I considered both but either way the time saved for it would be less than a minute. Maybe I saved a crash or maybe I further frustrated the driver? I did keep my distance from the car in front but meant two cars were in the way.

At the roundabout the leading driver hesitated too long and then drove onto it too late, causing the car already on the roundabout to brake. The driver was neither very young or elderly, just incompetent or completely unaware.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121089959#Comment_121089959

Yeah, air accident reports are always published in fine detail as to the cause/causes, down to pilot factors. Doesn’t matter if it’s a 747 or a Cessna 172 with a lone named pilot who has already most likely been publicly named at the time of the accident. Everyone can read and learn about all the contributory factors. I remember long back motor accident causes were reported in a little detail in the newspapers, including people related to me/family. “Defective motorbike”, “driver not wearing seatbelt” were remarked if accidents back in the 1960s and 1970s. Indeed I was doing genealogy research and checked out a newspaper dating from 1912, early days of Dublin motoring, my mother’s uncle had been travelling at the dangerous speed of 26mph rather than an advised 20mph wet semi conditions, all on board had drink taken, the uncle’s friend ended up almost decapitated as he was thrown against top of screen, local woman passing by tried to control blood loss as victim was taken in same car to Baggot St Hospital but had died. The uncle was convicted but after some agreement with judge he was sent to Australia and told never to attempt to communicate with family again. Such was the amount of detail.

Nowadays you hear of terrible accidents but there never seems to be the same reporting on the factors that caused the accident. Of course sone would be suspected of being suicides.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121090062#Comment_121090062

By that logic the current speed limits must also be a punishment?

JPCN1

current speed limits are about right generally… some room to look at individual roads instances rather than the beloved blanket…

Properly police what we have and I don’t believe we’d need to have this conversation… Besides the odd speed van road policing seems virtually nil and I drive a lot…

BrianD3

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121090138#Comment_121090138

Air Crash Investigation is one of my favourite programmes and having talked to a couple of commercial airline pilots about it, it is factual and based on actual investigations. The human factors are very interesting and some would be applicable to road fatalities. Was the driver sleep deprived due to work patterns? Were they stressed at work? Family problems? Mental health difficulties? Maybe this is covered in inquests , if it is it requires some digging to find. If we are serious about reducing "tragic accidents" this information needs to be out in the open.

We know that Jacob Veldhuyzen van Zanten's impatience was a major factor in the deaths of 583 people at Tenerife airport. Similar human weakness could see a driver overtaking into fog when he can't see and causing multiple fatalities because he's late for work, will be docked money and not be able to pay his rent etc.

-

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121090475#Comment_121090475

Exactly. Often the impetus to keep going in circumstances where you need to exercise your better judgement just takes hold. Air safety has been transformed in so many parts of the world because of the culture of investigation & publication. Interestingly Putin sacked the head of air accident investigations in Russia because he was doing far too good a job, he was probing way too much and of course we now know why Putin didn’t want someone with that independent mindset in a place of power.

Every non-rogue country has its own site for publication of air accident reports, not sure about any such thing in non-public transport road accident reports anywhere 🤔

UK has some very useful data analysis for road traffic accidents

https://www.gov.uk/government/statistical-data-sets/reported-road-accidents-vehicles-and-casualties-tables-for-great-britain

Victoria, Australia, has a system where you pay to apply for a detailed road accident report

https://www.police.vic.gov.au/traffic-accident-reports

Princess Calla

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121079055#Comment_121079055

I said in another thread that I have noticed an increase of kids not in proper seats.

I'm 4'11" so I'm in a good position to tell if a child should be in a child seat or not. The amount of kids smaller than me just getting into the backseat and some even in the front seat is appalling.

NIMAN

I can't see ireland ever publishing proper investigations of car fatalities into the public domain, where we will be able to see exactly who was at fault.

Too often it would go totally against the media reports about how great a person X was, how much they did for their local gaa team etc.

Can you really ever see it being reported that X was driving 30km/h over the speed limit, in the pouring rain, with 2 bald tyres, and managed to crash into a wall? Can't see it happening.

Larbre34

Some investigations are unable to establish blame, the evidence just doesn't exist.

But the case reports from the Coroner's Court are available for all to see. They aren't concerned with a cult of personality.

JP Liz V1

The amount of young racing in cars and tractors is increasing, with 2 to 3 not even 14 or 16 year olds in tractors

I'd be for increasing the driving age to 21 for cars and 18 for tractors and if caught dangerous driving then a long time ban, speeding and no seat belts, fines and bans, drunk and drug driving, bans

There is many with multiple offences still driving

Enforcement is most definitely needed

BrianD3

In the last couple of days there have been two separate hit and runs with one pedestrian killed. Leaving the scene when you've hit a pedestrian is a scummy thing to do. I wonder how many aspects of road traffic legislation the driver was not complying with.

Then there was the incident in Mayo where a car with a 20 year old and 16 year old was in collision with a train at a level crossing at 3:30 pm. Not sure if this is recorded as a road incident or a rail incident or both but in any case - this seems to be the location. It took some doing to not see a train here. But but but SPEEDING

https://www.google.ie/maps/@53.7234592,-8.9233731,3a,75y,90t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sHTsMegigwha5CjsDCO49lA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?entry=ttu

Hyperbollix

I live in a rural area, not on a boreen where even those with a small bit of sense slow down, but on a twisting 80kph 'R' road. The surface is smooth as a pool table which encourages speed, the hedges are overgrown reducing visibility and giving pedestrians and cyclists nowhere to go.

This road has been either 80kph or 50mph all my life. Even with the onset of huge farm machinery over the last 20/30 years, it hasn't been a major safety issue. Even 10 years ago, walking into town on it wouldn't cross me a thought and I used to cycle on it during lockdown.

Nowadays, I wouldn't walk or cycle on it unless I was stuck for a lift and had no other option. In the recent years, what I can only describe as rallying has started happened in the area. Cars with loud exhausts being absolutely flogged at full pelt can be heard from at all hours of the day and night. A nearby crossroad is continously covered in tyre skids from lads doing donuts, I've often heard this going on at 3pm, never mind 3am. There's a daily roar of engines blasting through the townsland at what must be at least 100kph, day and night.

Who are these people and where did they come from? They are the Gen Z sons (not too many daughters let's be honest) of local people, going to and from GAA training, commuting to and from work and travelling to the pubs and clubs on the weekend. I can guarantee you some new roadsigns won't affect them. Nothing but increased checkpoints will solve this. And a long term plan for changing the culture.

But of course Leo et Al won't worry about that. Just look busy, get re-elected and punish law abiding road users by forcing them to drive at a snail's pace, causing more accidents.

elperello

Broadly welcome a revision downwards to reflect the limitations of the roads.

More attention should be paid to engineering solutions to improve junctions etc.

This is just a suggestion of limits.

Motorways 120

N roads and Regional roads with hard shoulder 100 . Without hard shoulder 80.

Local roads 60

Lanes 50

Main routes in Towns/Cities 50 or 60 depending on road design.

Town/City centres 30

Residential estates 30

magicbastarder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121091587#Comment_121091587

Nowadays, I wouldn't walk or cycle on it unless I was stuck for a lift and had no other option. In the recent years, what I can only describe as rallying has started happened in the area. Cars with loud exhausts being absolutely flogged at full pelt can be heard from at all hours of the day and night. A nearby crossroad is continously covered in tyre skids from lads doing donuts, I've often heard this going on at 3pm, never mind 3am. There's a daily roar of engines blasting through the townsland at what must be at least 100kph, day and night.

i was in carndonagh for a funeral a year or so ago, and the amount of shithousery the local petrolheads were pulling in the town was astounding; there was a car rally the likes of which would have the army deployed if it happened in dublin - lads in bananas loud souped up cars revving around the town centre, doing burnouts etc., and keeping the entire place awake till the small hours. i didn't see it, but i was told there was a lad there with a souped up tractor. i think the nearest full time garda station is buncrana, which is 20 minutes away but at no point did we see any garda presence.

mcburns07

The roads are getting more and more lawless these days and the complete lack of Garda presence is 90% of the issue.

People on mobile phones, slow drivers who aren't fit to drive a car holding up 10s of cars and inevitably leading to dangerous overtaking manoeuvres, clowns running red lights, drivers not paying attention to what lane they're meant to be and cutting in last second, I could go on. It's like the wild west out there.

What % of road fatalities is speed a contributing factor?

magicbastarder

not saying any of them were speeding related - i simply don't know; but we've started the new year with 5 fatalities already, and the 5th day is not even done with yet. that's a shocking start.

Tippman24

We are never told the actual cause of a road death I.e speeding, vehicle fault etc. A few years ago there was a road death in my home place. Car went off road in middle of place, mounted footpath and crashed into a house. Driver died, but nobody else involved thankfully. Turns he had a heart attack when the incident occurred. It still is classed as a road death. It is like the Covid Death stats. Only person that I know who died from Covid was a 60 a day smoker who had wrecked his lungs from smoking, but hey when he got Covid it killed him.Ergo it is a Covid Death.

magicbastarder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121575762#Comment_121575762

it has now reached six fatalities, unfortunately.

amacca

Yes but I tend to agree with Tippman above

What are the causes of the crashes/accidents/fatalities?

Yes speed kills but perhaps so do drugs, suicidal tendencies, drug driving, lack of adequate policing

Perhaps the answer isn't lower speed limits ...

A common phrase I hear is "its multi factorial" which makes sense....

It would also make sense then that perhaps the solution should be multi factorial and perhaps another reduction in speed limits isn't the best or even desirable approach if reducing fatalities is the goal....

Maybe too many young unaccompanied drivers are wandering around, maybe its a lot of untrained older drivers, perhaps drivers at a lotbof accidents are found to have drugs in their system, perhaps if they were investigated some of the single vehicle single occupant fatalities/crashes shouldn't be taken into account when coming up with policy, perhaps enforcing the existing rules with an increased garda presence would work much better than limits that are perceived to be unrealistic by some

If its multifactorial...let's hear the factors, geat an unbiased impartail breakdown of all the fatalities or categories if peoples identity is in danger of being revealed and design a solution based on that

I could be wrong but I suspect lowering limits might not be all that effective when one got the nitty gritty on the causes of each fatality

Let's also get a comparison per head of population or something to level the playing field with other developed European countries to see how out of kilter we are ....and a comparison of police presence/enforcement on their roads

And a comparison on what their insurance costs are like and ehy while we are at it

And a comparison of how much their road safety quangos are funded etc etc...

magicbastarder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121576823#Comment_121576823

Seven.

Princess Calla

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121577094#Comment_121577094

Also have to take into account pedestrians.

According to RTE 44 of last year's 184 deaths were pedestrians...that's close to 24%!

From top of my head there were a couple of deaths from people walking on the motorway....I don't think it was because their car broke down and they were trying to get help either!

Some country roads are absolutely lethal for having no footpaths. However there's still a lot of pedestrians that think going walking at night in all black is a good choice.

harmless

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121577633#Comment_121577633

Agreed, it is pedestrians who are at fault for these awful statistics. If you need proof just listen to the message the RSA is sending time and time again.

Atlantic Dawn

You see very lightly reported follow ups like this that no level of laws would have stopped as the driver was a bloody selfish idiot...

https://www.midwestradio.ie/index.php/news/72652-inquest-hears-that-a-galway-man-was-killed-instantly-in-2021-when-his-car-was-struck-by-a-neighbour-high-on-cocaine-and-alcohol-and-speeding-on-the-wrong-side-of-the-road#:~:text=According%20to%20today's%20Irish%20Independent,over%20the%20drink%2Ddriving%20limit.

Princess Calla

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121577686#Comment_121577686

Don't know how it can be ruled as accidental death.

If you get behind the wheel high on drugs and alcohol it's murder.

Psychedelic Hedgehog

I have family up in Inishowen and the attitudes to driving up there beggar belief, from all ages, not just young lads. It's not speeding, it's pure carelessness/not giving a fcuk about car maintenance, being insured etc. Dropping speed limits will do nothing to such attitudes.

Packrat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121079325#Comment_121079325

This round of GP rule, (yes rule, because the tail wagged the very SF worried dog) has baked in some almost irreversible negative change for the citizens of this country.

Congratulations, - you facilitated that. We warned you but you knew better.

No crocodile tears now...

magicbastarder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121577670#Comment_121577670

not sure if serious!

batman_oh

The infantile focus on catching people speeding on mostly wide national road and motorways will do nothing to stop road deaths or reduce them from the current level. Look at the fatal crashes - would a speed camera van in the locations they always put them or a random lower speed limit have stopped many of them?

The speed cameras are pretty much the easiest thing to be seen doing, that happens to earn a few quid to offset the effort

magicbastarder

the worst thing about the gosafe vans is that they operate at a loss for the state IIRC and are counterproductive (IMHO). but we were probably through all that earlier in the thread.

anyway, there's effectively no such thing as a speed limit in this country as your chances of being caught speeding are effectively nil.

Cheddar Bob

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121578282#Comment_121578282

Every time there's a national slow down day they release a report along the lines of

"GoSafe vans recorded 325,752 motorists and have issued 829 fines"

Now, even taking into account some motorists might be aware it's a national slow down day and are keeping an eye out for vans, and taking into account many rural motorists know the regular spots, there is no way in hell circa only 1 in 350 motorists who go past a van were speeding.

1 in 3 might be more on the money.

Are the GoSafe vans ridiciliously unreliable for getting a reading or what's the story?

Signed,

Someone who has sped past at least four of them, and is waiting by the letterbox to see if I was snapped on Stephens Day.

Mr. teddywinkles

Roads have a lot more traffic now than I'd say just 10 years ago. Also has to be a factor.

Cheddar Bob

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121578334#Comment_121578334

Yet road deaths are lower than 10 years ago.

In fact despite more cars and more people they're lower than at pretty much any point in our history, same as crime.

magicbastarder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121578326#Comment_121578326

Are the GoSafe vans ridiciliously unreliable for getting a reading or what's the story?

AFAIK you need to be within approx 40m of them for them to capture you; and by the fact that they are explicitly designed to be as visible as possible, that gives you plenty of time to slow down when you see them.

in theory, they're a visual deterrent. what this means is that if you can't see one, it's 'safe' to speed. if they wanted go-safe vans to be effective, they should be disgusing them as carpet fitter vans or plumber's vans.

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121577703#Comment_121577703

This is entirely the point. The general idea is redolent of coming from a committee that resides in greater Dublin and who only have to waddle down the road to catch the Dart. It's cack heavy handed and will have very limited if no impact on serious road accidents. Driving safely, using the roads safely is a matter of attitude and mind and nothing to do with rules like this. Bad law just gets ignored.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121578352#Comment_121578352

Good idea, you’d keep within the limits everywhere as any van could be one. I’m quite sure carpet, plumbing companies etc would be glad to participate in sponsorship 😁

Princess Calla

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121578213#Comment_121578213

Not sure if he was myself.

However, another pedestrian on the M1 last night/this morning.

Rubberchikken

It's attitude that needs to change.

I value my licence and drive under the speed limit always. It's just not worth the haßle otherwise.

It doesn't matter what the limit is, there are enough driving that completely ignore any limits. Their arrogance is not going to be contained by mere limits. They're just for the few fools left in their wake.

The speed vans are a complete wadter imo. So manyore manners would be put on drivers of these vans were unmarked and parked in no particular place at random times.

The telling us where these spots are and the bloody can as visible as the sun is a joke and insult.

magicbastarder

did a bit of driving yesterday, probably 60 or 70km. the sheer impatience on the roads is remarkable; two dangerous overtakes on stretches which were clearly not safe for overtaking on (and one of the motorists turned left off the road a couple of hundred metres later anyway), and another situation where i was pulling out of a premises and a motorist signalling to turn in to it, stopped to let me out - but i didn't take the opportunity because i was waiting to see what the motorist approaching her from behind was going to do - and she ended up leaning on the horn at me and gave me the finger!