Misrepresentation in a contract

MegamanBoo

Hi, so I'm considering taking a for breach of contract/misrepresentation.

It's not for a huge amount of money. I think I'd like to do it to right a wrong, but only if I have a reasonable chance of winning.

I've tried reading up on the law on misrepresentation and it looks quite confusing so let me share my story.

I received a quote from a builder to replace some roof windows. It looked expensive but I was in a hurry to get some work done with a new baby arriving.

I agreed to the quote but part of this agreement was the builder would do another job for me, as I was very stuck for someone to do this other job. There was never a quote for this other job but I've a number of text messages from the builder saying 'he'll take care of it', 'all under control' etc.

Once the first job was complete, the builder came along and fobbed me off with a mate's phone number (who never replied) for the second job.

This after having had months to inform me if he wasn't going to take it.

I paid him believing I had no grounds not to. But I feel now I should not have paid in full.

After he did the first job I realised I was charged a very high rate for it. I had over-estimated the work involved.

I've complained to him about his prices and misrepresentation but he's not responded.

Does it sound like I've a case? I genuinely only agreed to the quote for the roof windows on the grounds he was going to take the other job and I'd get everything done together without hassle.

I'm now left trying to do the other job myself as I feel it's gone too late to get another builder in and have it done before winter.

Just to be clear, you didn’t receive a quote, and haven’t paid anything for the other job?

Surely the time to question the quote for the initial job was before you agreed to it.

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121127655#Comment_121127655

No I never received a quote for the other job or paid anything. But I only agreed to the window job once he said he said he was going to do the other one.

I asked for the price for the second job and he told me he was just waiting for figures from his suppliers. Again this is in text.

I appreciate I was careless but was paying in part for the convenience of having everything taken care of. Or I thought I was.

To me it seems clear now he was offering an inducement he had no intention of following up. But is there a legal case or does it fall down because there was never an agreed price for the other part of the job.

I think the answer to that is, would you feel obligated to proceed with the job, and pay him if he gave you a quote for the second job which you are unhappy with?

If you are claiming to have a contract which includes the second job, and you haven’t yet been told how much it would cost, that might not be favourable to you.

Forge83

Life’s short, move on. You agreed to a quote for a job, he did the work and you paid him. Yes he was wrong in promising verbally to do a seperate job and not following through. If the other job was done you would have to pay for it. So financially you are in the same place. Find someone else to do it and save yourself the stress.

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121127814#Comment_121127814

It wasn't just verbally, it's in our texts that he was to do the second job and I only agreed to the first one after that.

I'd say I'm quite out of pocket, I paid top dollar for the window job on the basis the other one was to be done. Also, I was struggling to find a builder for that other job a the time, and impossible now in the timeframe I need it done.

I get what you're saying about moving on and am considering it. That said I can take the case at no great cost to myself. I just don't want to do that unless I have a reasonably solid basis.

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121127807#Comment_121127807

I don't see that he is obliged to the second job now, it was only ever offered as an inducement.

It's clear now there was never a genuine intention to do that work.

I suspect the reason he never wanted to do it is that it would never be as profitable as the roof window work. Were he to try to charge the same rates for this more basic work I think he'd be into bogus tradesman territory.

ohnonotgmail

What do you hope to gain from suing him? what outcome would you expect?

fritzelly

Was there not a story recently where text messages where seen as an implied contract for a similar situation? Tried googling but can't find it but I'm sure it happened

ohnonotgmail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121128191#Comment_121128191

if there is no agreed on consideration do you have a contract?

.

Not to put to fine a point on it, you seemed to be claiming you entered an agreement/contract with a builder knowing exactly how much the first job was, but you are now unhappy with that quote after the job is done, and with no idea of what the second job would cost, but you now think the builder should have done the job whatever he charged you.

Given the high price of the first job, there is every possibility that he would have charged you a lot for the second job, at least now you are in a position to get more quotes rather than being tied in to an agreement with unknown costs.

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121128397#Comment_121128397

Not quite, I'm worse off than I was day one because I only took his first quote on the basis he was serious about doing the second job. Had he provided a quote for the second job I think it would be more difficult for me to show he was never serious about doing it.

Look at it this way. Imagine there was a shortage of work and an abundance of builders. I offered one of these builders a low rate for a job but with the promise I had loads more work to follow. When they asked for details I fobbed them off with excuses that I was waiting for prices from suppliers etc. When they had done the first job at the lower rate I stopped taking their calls.

I'm quite clear that you can't offer an inducement for another party to enter a contract unless you are genuine about meeting it. I'm just not sure in my case, as I think @ohnonotgmail is pointing out, whether the inducement was, pardon the building related pun, concrete enough, given there was no price put to it.

Peregrinus

But what remedy do you want? He did the first job at the price he quoted. You now think the quote was more than the job was worth, but by your own account that's your mistake; you overestimated the amount of work involved.

Your complaint now is that he is not following through on his representation that he would take on the second job. Do you want him to be compelled to take it on, or at least to tender for it? He can easily put in a very high tender. Given your dissatisfaction over what he charged for the first job, do you even want him to do the second job?

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121128625#Comment_121128625

I believe when it's established there was misrepresentation the role of the court is to attempt to undo the damage done, and put the injured party back as close as possible to their original position.

I knew the quote was high when I got it, just not how high.

I think the fairest thing would be that I pay for the goods supplied, given I would have had to have replaced these windows at some point in the future.

And then try to ascertain a fair rate for the other work, based on quotes from other local tradesmen, or industry hourly rates for roofers.

It's not a huge amount of money but if I have a case I'd like to pursue it. I looked into taking it with the small claims court but they won't deal with misrepresentation.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121128679#Comment_121128679

Thats not the way it works. You accepted a quote for the first job, the job was done, you paid only for that job.

What damage was done?

Peregrinus

Assuming this is treated as a misrepresentation case (I think that's a bit iffy, but lets assume) the principle is to put you in the position you would be in if the representation were true.

If the representation were true, you would have got the first job done at the quoted price, and he would have tendered for the second job, a tender you would be free to accept or reject.

You have got the first job done at the quoted price, so all you could look for would be compensation for the loss of the opportunity to receive and consider his tender.

Since he had no obligation to tender at a below-market rate, it's not clear that the loss of this opportunity is worth anything. Given what you now think of him, you would likely have rejected his tender anyway. What have you lost by not being able to reject his tender?

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121128706#Comment_121128706

Ah ok, I have it now.

My understanding was that the principle was to attempt to put me in a place where the misrepresentation never happened.

So on that grounds, I've no damages, as I wouldn't want to proceed with any more work with this individual.

Well, thanks for that 👍️

Unless anyone has a correction or opinion on that point, I think that's the end of my case.

I'll just go back to leaving terrible, but non-defamatory, reviews for the guy online!

Seth Brundle

To be honest, it looks like your pride took a knock and you want some form of revenge.

Leaving an honest negative review will only reflect on you: you willingly accepted the first contract knowing it was priced too high. The builder also doesn't want to do the second job so if the first was so lucrative, Did he simply not want to work for you any more?

Just move on with your life and don't get petty!

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121128914#Comment_121128914

I appreciate the advise but I think I'm past looking for some form of revenge.

To put this in perspective, I had some plumbers come in and do another job. From my rough calculations this roofer charged somewhere between 10-15 times their hourly rate.

I knew he was charging an expensive rate, but I didn't realise how high, thinking there was more work involved.

I've since had a look around for other quotes for the same job, to make sure I'm not being overly critical with my negative reviews.

I've learned there's some people charging even more again for the same job.

It looks to me that there are some unscrupulous businesses taking advantage of the fact that people might think this type of work is more complex than it is.

I get that that's within the law, and I can live with having been caught out myself, but I think there's a public interest in making people aware of what's going on.

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121129322#Comment_121129322

You got a quote from a builder and were happy to proceed with the work so much so that you were passing additional work his way. You since found out that his qupte was high.

You are now aggreived at having paid so much so that is completely on you. You failed to obtain alternative quotes despite knowing that the builder's quote was on the high side. This is completely on you. Now you want some kind of legal recourse for your mistake and none seems available which is why you think the mature approach is to post online reviews.

And now you're defending the public interest? All I can say is "grow up"! Maybe in future ask your other half or neighbour or anyone else to look after your financial transactions if you're not capable of doing it yourself.

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121129458#Comment_121129458

It sounds like someone's left bad online reviews for you?

I've already posted online reviews, I'm going to post now on some consumer threads about my experiences. Had someone else done the same for this guy beforehand, it would have saved me a lot of hassle.

I've learned a lesson from this which is to always seek out multiple quotes even from local tradesmen. Previously I would only have done so for what I thought were larger jobs.

My experience had been that in rural areas tradesmen didn't engage in this kind of price gouging. It seems now, with the market the way it is, some are, and I'll be sharing that.

I think it's a good thing. It doesn't cost me anything as I have downtime in front of a computer anyway. Once I'm telling the truth, what's the harm?

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121129600#Comment_121129600

Nobody has left reviews for me as I'm not a tradesman.

However, you're choosing the petty route - just make sure to provide all details rather so readers get the full picture and aren't left thinking that the builder did something wrong.

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121129637#Comment_121129637

Hasn't done anything wrong?

When I spoke to the CCPC they felt he had engaged in misrepresentation and asked me to provide the text messages where he'd promised to do the other job. They did say they're unlikely to pursue enforcement because they usually only do so when a business regularly shows up in their complaints. I'm guessing a smaller tradesman rarely would.

I guess it also depends on your position on price-gouging. Some see it as part of the 'free-market', others see at as unhealthy for a properly functioning economy. Various members of our government have spoken out against it recently.

But let the people decide for themselves I say.

ohnonotgmail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121129715#Comment_121129715

They did say they're unlikely to pursue enforcement because they usually only do so when a business regularly shows up in their complaints

what enforcement do you think they can pursue?

and as for "price gouging", he gave you a quote and you accepted it. that the price is higher than you now think it should have been is a mistake on your part not his. your behaviour have been naive in the extreme. anybody sensible would have sought multiple quotes before commencing work.

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121129765#Comment_121129765

They mentioned I think a 1997 Consumer Act.

As I understand it, you can't offer an inducement for another party to enter a contract unless you genuinely intend to provide what you're promising. I get that for this case it's a bit 'iffy' because there might not have been a material value to the inducement.

But that's the principle and I believe it can be, and is sometimes, enforced.

As for 'price-gouging', again a matter of perspective. I wholly agree I was naive and at this time extremely busy. That does not mean there isn't a public interest in people being aware of the variation in prices between businesses, and over time. It would have been unheard of for a rural business to charge these amounts until very recently and I think it's important people are aware.

This is just a case of buyers remorse, nothing more.

cap.in.hand.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121129715#Comment_121129715

If the builder/tradesmen did a very good job on your house you contracted them to do...you should be thankful with so many horror stories about.

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121129876#Comment_121129876

Thanks I've already acknowledged there isn't grounds for damages here.

As legal discussion though I feel I've learned something around misrepresentation and inducements. There's a limit to what and how a business can offer as an inducement. What I found interesting was that it seems to depend on how genuine they were in their intentions.

Let's say my case was more clear cut and I had agreed a price for the second job. The builder wouldn't have committed misrepresentation if say, they had an accident and genuinely couldn't complete the second job. If they had never intended to take the second job we'd be into misrepresentation territory.

It's not clear to me where the burden of proof lies but I still found it interesting.

Seth Brundle

I starting to believe that the builder actually did earn the money received and has since made the choice to dodge a second bullet!

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121130359#Comment_121130359

I'm more of the opinion he'd have been wiser to do the second job for free and with a groveling apology!

He's already complained that he's not happy about my online reviews.

I've pointed out to him that it's unwise to charge a premium rate without offering a premium service. Dissatisfied customers are bad for business in the long run. People talk, it's human nature.

Former Former Former

Right, so you think this guy gouged you on the first job - even though you agreed the price beforehand - and you're now upset that he isn't coming back for a second bite at the cherry?

I think you need to take a breath, think about what you actually hope to get out of this, and let your partner handle the next tradesman.

SteM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121129322#Comment_121129322

I've learned there's some people charging even more again for the same job.

I've stopped reading your responses this tbh. It seems you actually paid mid-market rate for the job you got done, you could have gotten it done for a bit less if you'd bothered to get quotes and now you're just annoyed about the whole thing. Just get on with your life.

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121130433#Comment_121130433

I've dealt with plenty of tradesmen and never had a problem until this guy.

Previously I've relied on word of mouth but being new to this area, I didn't have the contacts yet and made the mistake of quickly turning to someone online when I was in a hurry.

I don't intend to 'get anything' out of this. I've already said I'm not taking a case.

I will share my experience online though. It's what people do now. Once I'm not saying anything untruthful, what's the problem?

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121130468#Comment_121130468

These guys are charging 10-15 time the hourly rate of other tradesmen.

I wasn't aware of these practices, in rural Ireland, until now. Again I'm not pursuing a case but I will share my experience.

If a business wants to charge those rates, I appreciate it's within the law. It's still not a good long-term strategy, unless your customers are happy to pay a premium rate for some reason.

I don't see what's so shocking about that?

Former Former Former

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121130472#Comment_121130472

The problem is you are intentionally and maliciously damaging a tradesman's business.

He quoted a price, you agreed the price, he did the job. That's how it's supposed to work.

Now you have buyer's remorse because you think it should have been cheaper, apparently because you're comparing plumbers and roofers for some reason.

You are not acting reasonably here. You are acting out of spite and vindictiveness.

SteM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121130499#Comment_121130499

You weren't aware of what practices in rural Ireland? different people quoting different amounts for the same job? That's how trades work, you get quotes and decide on who you want to go with. Different tradesmen are at different points in the careers, some might be more experienced than other and quote based on that experience. Some might have no work on and quote a job cheap for that reason, some might already be in your area and it will suit them to do the job for you. This isn't a 'rural Ireland' thing.

Your real issue is you didn't bother to get multiple quotes and now you're bitter about it.

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121130525#Comment_121130525

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121130553#Comment_121130553

Sorry I couldn't disagree more.

There's no special rules for trades. Business is business. I'm not obliged to ring multiple restaurants and get quotes, why tradesmen?

Maybe it's not just a 'rural Ireland' thing but I'd always have relied on word of mouth and it's served me well. Come to think of it, this is probably the first time I've gone online to find a tradesman.

Where I've gone online to find other services, I'd leave reviews, why not here?

If I heard a neigbour was getting windows done I'd share my negative experiences with this guy. Why not my online neighbours? It's where I found the guy.

ohnonotgmail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121130697#Comment_121130697

There's no special rules for trades. Business is business. I'm not obliged to ring multiple restaurants and get quotes, why tradesmen?

It is smart and prudent to get multiple quotes for work involving tradesmen. You didnt do this and are paying the price.

SteM

There's no special rules for trades. Business is business. I'm not obliged to ring multiple restaurants and get quotes, why tradesmen?

What does this even mean? The price in every restaurant is different. If you want a steak it'll be different in one place to another, just like tradesmen price.

You're not obliged to ring multiple restaurants but you'd probably complain paying for a gourmet burger if there was a cheaper mcdonalds beside it without checking first.

ohnonotgmail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121131164#Comment_121131164

So you are happy to just accept the first price given?

SteM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121131177#Comment_121131177

No, I was quoting the OP.

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121131164#Comment_121131164

You've said trade prices are based on people getting multiple quotes. It's not the only factor. Potential customers also rely on reviews and word of mouth.

On reflection I regret more not waiting until I got a recommendation in this case.

SteM

You've put morw work into giving this lad bad reviews than you did getting a recommendation in the first place.

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121131311#Comment_121131311

Well I'd just moved to the area at the time so I didn't know anyone for recommendations.

As for it being work to leave bad reviews, hmmm, not really, people will talk about their experiences, like we're both doing now. 😉

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121131177#Comment_121131177

As I've said I'll generally go with word of mouth.

If I'm happy with the quality for the price I'll get them back.

Mostly would have used the same tradesmen for years.

I think the builder undercharged.

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121131355#Comment_121131355

It certainly wasn't the handy number he expected.

But as much as I was niave, I think this guy was too.

Charging what some mug in a hurry is willing to pay might not be the best idea in the age of Google.

ohnonotgmail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121131223#Comment_121131223

Apologies, I misread.

Mellor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121130412#Comment_121130412

He did the work you wanted to for the price you agreed. Being disgruntled afterwards and leaving bad reviews is being a bit of a prick tbh. You could get yourself into bother with this.

Maybe you were ripped off. But given you were unable to spot this when you received the quote it doesn't really suggest you're assessment now is any better.

Mellor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121130697#Comment_121130697

Yes you are not obliged to ring multiple restaurants. But if you eat in the first restaurant you find after reviewing the menu and prices. But the next day find a place with a similar dish for cheaper, then you have zero ability to sue the first restaurant for damages.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121130499#Comment_121130499

How have you worked out how much these guys were paid. what were the rates?

JPup

It's telling in this case that despite us only getting one half of the story from the client's perspective, everybody responding is feeling sympathetic to the tradesman! I'd say if we had his side of the story too it would be pretty damning for OP.

I can never understand people who come on here looking for advice and opinions and then insist on rejecting anything that doesn't support their prior belief! Honestly Megaman, you really need to take a step back here and consider your situation. What type of person do you want to be in life? Show some humility, accept the advice here, delete the reviews, move on and find someone else to do the second job.