Temple street hospital using unauthorised devices

joseywhales

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121137135#Comment_121137135

My question is why though. What is the motivation for using the unauthorized product?

Tow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121137814#Comment_121137814

It appears he wanted to make a name for himself, only it turned out in a bad way.

joseywhales

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121137913#Comment_121137913

Even if it had worked, people would have thought it was irresponsible and that he was a maniac. He must have been deluded or something.

SuperBowserWorld

This whole debacle has been going on for decades now. And this horrific stuff is what emerges eventually.

The public gets what the public wants. We keep voting for the same leaders that allows this to happen.

Time and time again.

Tow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121137931#Comment_121137931

A number of surgeons think they are God's gift to mankind.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121136697#Comment_121136697

So then it’s ok? No, it’s WORSE.

JP Liz V1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121135454#Comment_121135454

Sorry if I sound harsh and maybe uninformed or taking it up wrong but if one of my relatives were badly injured or died from hospital mistakes I think I would want all there liable, that is just my view again sorry if I offend

ohnonotgmail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121139276#Comment_121139276

Surely you would want all those responsible held liable? An anaesthetist is not responsible for the work of a surgeon.

Caquas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121137814#Comment_121137814

I've read so much about this scandal and no one has offered a convincing explanation.

There is a lot of nonsense on this thread. Many posters seem to think this is about the HSE saving money. As if saving 100 Euro would make a difference in the HSE's 22,000,000,000 Euro budget. There is even a claim that Irish graduate doctors are not paid a living wage. There is a bonkers claim that the surgeon "wanted to make a name for himself". What? For fitting un-authorised devices into children's spines?

The mainstream media is no help. Justine McCarthy has a rant in today's Irish Times about Ireland long ago. As if kids getting an orange for Christmas in the 1930s and going barefoot to school is relevant to this scandal.

I think, as so often in Ireland, this scandal will be compounded by a failure to learn lessons. Look at Cervical Check - what was the lesson Dr. Scally told us after all the excitement? That doctors need better bedside manners. 😳

appledrop

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121128581#Comment_121128581

Well the a& e department is an absolute disgrace. I'm very lucky that we have had to use it a limited numbers of times for my kids as generally very healthy but the experience was dreadful.

The waiting room is not fit for purpose with everyone all squashed in together, waiting for hours and the kids come out sickier than they go in picking up all the bugs!

Security can be very aggressive towards parents. When I was there only one parent allowed and father wanted to just go in and sit with child so mother could get washed up/ shower after staying for two days and he said no!

Yes once you get through, staff very good but not good enough.

I actually feel sick after reading almostovers post as they obviously have plenty of knowledge about medical devices.

How the f**k was this allowed continue with no one copping what was going on.

c.p.w.g.w

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121128438#Comment_121128438

Work in the industry myself, the level of sterilisation alone is crazy, chemical cleaning and irradiation for implants... if these were used internally it's beyond belief

Hellrazer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121144630#Comment_121144630

Well if that is the case regarding sterilisation how in gods name was the minimum number of returns for follow up surgery within this group of kids was 6 due to post op infections.

With one having 34 follow up surgeries. The devices were obviously the cause but why wasnt it spotted earlier?

Apparently the surgeon is "well respected" and "highly regarded" - they are in my bollix - they are a butcher.

Sheep breeder

See a report in the Journal that a review is being done in Crumlin and Cappagh also but no report yet and the minister or Junior has not come out and said anything about the situation. See the Junior Minister is on about death threats in the papers but not about the way children have being treated in these hospitals.

Alexander Shulgin

The surgeon who's yet to be named seems like he/she has a god complex, inserting springs that weren't fit for a garage door into children resulting in multiple surgeries is not only reprehensible but must surely meet malpractice & fitness to practice along with civil prosecution! The HSE have been aware of this long before the public & heads have to roll , but it being Ireland well get an Irish solution, my prayers for those children & their families !

ohnonotgmail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121157535#Comment_121157535

They have been named

Floppybits

Alot of questions to be answered in this debacle like why the consultant thought it would be ok to use unauthorised devices in the surgery? How were the unauthorised devices purchased? Most importantly how in the name of jesus did the unauthorised devices get into operating room? I just cant get my head around how the consultant managed to do this, whether they had a god complex or not there should be procedures in place and I am sure they are in place, that cannot be by-passed for any reason. It was never a cost saving measure or anything like that but there has been a complete systems failure here that these devices were able to be purchased then used multiple times in surgeries.

And to compound this further the handling of it by the government, especially Donnelly, has been a shocking. I know there is nothing Donnelly can really do but at least he should have come out with a statement about this but hasn't, secondly his treatment of the parents/groups affected as well has been awful, sending a response to say that he could fit them in for 30 minutes on Friday to discuss this, like FFS surely to god they would want to be getting out in front of this and bending over backwards to accommodate the parents/groups affected but what we have seen is Donnelly going into hiding, a bit like Martin had done during the RTE Fiasco. Its has been totally cack handed response and still you have that other eejit Harris going around spouting his usual nonsense and not one reporter/journalist will pull him up on his statement that no child should be waiting longer than 4 months for this operation. And now we see more investigation going on at Crumlin and Cappagh. A complete and utter F**k up from start to finish.

cython

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121139276#Comment_121139276

This is a dangerous line of thinking, and on a par with holding passengers in a vehicle accountable for the driver's actions after a fatal collision, or indeed serving staff in a restaurant in the event of someone being poisoned by the negligence or carelessness of a single member of kitchen staff. In all three of these scenarios and approaches, the result will be that people who were innocent and could not have intervened (nor been expected to intervene) will be wrongly blamed and tarred with the same brush.

It's one thing (and entirely reasonable and right) to seek accountability and responsibility, it's quite another to bay for blood out of spite, and blaming everyone in the room equally just because they were there regardless whether they had anything to do with or knowledge of the devices in question is the latter.

This is obviously a highly emotive subject, and any response needs to be compassionate, but it also needs to be fair to all involved, many of whom you can be sure will already be aghast at the thought that they unwittingly played a part in this on any level.

Jinglejangle69

Seems there is more to this story.

Dozens of parents have come out saying the surgeon was too class when dealing with their kids and can’t speak highly enough of him.

Something doesn’t feel right, the report will be interesting.

salonfire

What can be done though, this guy was a qualified and experienced surgeon. You can't go around checking and double checking every decision your staff makes otherwise nothing will get done.

No-one likes to be micromanaged. A highly paid surgeon certainly wouldn't.

I think he was coming from the right place to try reduce the number of follow-up surgeries by using spring loaded rods that adjust as the child grows.

Baffling as to how he though industrial grade steel should be placed in the body.

Floppybits

Listening to the Board of CHI yesterday in the Oireacthas talking about how they don't know how these unapproved devices got into the operating theatre is very reminiscent of the RTE debacle where the board there didn't seem to have a clue to what was going on there either. Are these boards at state institutions just incompetent or do they just not care what is going on as long as they don't have to do anything? They always seem to be caught like deer in the headlights.

Dr Bob

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121158978#Comment_121158978

I mean , nothing stopping a surgeon being well spoken , having a great bedside manner and wanting to help people , and also having a god complex and continuing their 'technique' that was doing more harm than good due to massive hubris . Seriously though as someone who had an interest in the whole biohacking thing a few years back ..even amongst people that stick magnets and electronic devices under their skin , its pretty obvious you need a special grade of metal/material to go into the human body ...sticking in common grade steel is really really stupid.

ohnonotgmail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121171576#Comment_121171576

Did they mention if they asked the surgeon how they got into the operating theatre?

jj880

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121171576#Comment_121171576

Successful HSE board candidate being interviewed about the HSE:

Tow

There is also a difference between unapproved and unsuitable. The surgeon must have know they were made from steel, there is plenty of research on how the body can attack proper cobalt and titanium implants.

Floppybits

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121171709#Comment_121171709

Nah there was a lot of the usual crap like we can't comment because of the enquiry. Senator Tom Clonan contribution yesterday was very sobering at the way these kids are their families are treated. I think this is going to get alot worse.

https://twitter.com/gavreilly/status/1707487900965785864

Floppybits

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121171709#Comment_121171709

Neasa Hourigan asked that yesterday and they couldn't answer how it happened and said they have to wait for the enquiry.

https://twitter.com/gavreilly/status/1707485278418407521

Sheep breeder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121160936#Comment_121160936

Have you had a child that suffers with spine problems in either of these 3 hospitals, and seeing the suffering daily due to waiting lists, also you think it’s alright not to question surgeons on what they are doing to patients and shouldn’t be checked or held accountable.

Sheep breeder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121171576#Comment_121171576

What would you expect with the board so removed from what goes on daily in a hospital, the board are there for big wages and pensions to sit back and let the people under them do the day to day running and deal with everything and anything goes wrong take the pension and run, just like in Rte. this will be brushed aside and move on and learn for the mistakes and no heads roll as this only effects a couple of hundred kids and won’t effect votes or Leo

ohnonotgmail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121171989#Comment_121171989

I thought they had already conducted 2 enquiries of their own?

Floppybits

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121172061#Comment_121172061

As far as I can tell they did and that was what they were discussing yesterday in the Oireachtas especially the one done by the people from Boston. I think they only brought this to light. I know some were critical of the Boston one because seemingly they flew in spent a couple of days at the hospital and flew out again.