Let's Be Honest Public Transport in Ireland is an Abominaiton Because it is Meant to Be...

bk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121166236#Comment_121166236

Well it would be a good start to just get the orbital routes up and running!

The N4 is already a big success from what I've seen, I can't wait for the 0 and N2, they are taking far too long to roll out.

All of those other enhancements (tap to pay, cashless, ANPR, bus priority, etc) would benefit all bus routes, not just the orbitals.

Slightly Kwackers

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121165342#Comment_121165342

Well it seems to me that if you look at the myriad of school busses on the roads that criss cross Ireland carrying vulnerable passengers some even without the option of alternative transport, then why can't the work be done to progressing an equally needed transportation requirement?

From my simple standpoint it seems a no brainer. Car journeys reduced, less fuel burnt, better for the country health wise through emissions and hopefully less cars = less accidents, better financially as it reduces imports and better for the entire planet.

I don't know what towns are badly served, but here some villages do have provision, although mine has gone from a poor service to no service.

We don't have towns, the closest being Dingle and Tralee, both seem very well served indeed.

tom1ie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121166323#Comment_121166323

If I knew how to put up screenshots I would.

The TFI app is telling me these so if the times are baloney- blame the TFI app not me.

tom1ie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121166325#Comment_121166325

Absolutely.

When are we going to get them?

ANPR seems to have disappeared off the agenda.

An app to tag on and off has been spoke about for a decade yet we still have zip.

Bus priority QBC’s look great on a glossy brochure but how they’re going to get bus priority through the likes of templeogue rathfarnham, rathmines, terenure, in real life………. well we’ll wait and see when the infrastructure goes for/ emerges from (which is another cluster fcuk) ABP.

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121166561#Comment_121166561

Well now if you live in Rathfarnham you should easily know that the two bus routes that I mentioned only take as long as I said to get to Dundrum.

Clearly there is some setting wrong in your app - the journey times are as I quoted above and that's what is relevant here.

If I put in Rathfarnham to Dundrum I am getting trips on the 17 and 61 taking 10 mins each or so.

tom1ie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121166671#Comment_121166671

I was in the middle of replying and telling you your wrong etc etc, but I said I’d better check the app.

I had put in dundrum shopping centre and selected the first option.

When I checked the map I realised it was sending me to dundrum shopping centre, 2, the way, Ravens mill, which is way out near Ashbourne.

Upon closer inspection on google maps there is no ravens mill it’s ravens hill and it’s an estate in rowlestown north county Dublin.

I have no idea how the app decided to send me there- but anyway you are correct a trip from where I am in Rathfarnham to dundrum SC takes anywhere from 27min to 33 min (that’s including walking to and from the bus)

StudentDad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121166540#Comment_121166540

My experience living and working in this country has been the constant refrain, 'ah, there's Mary, she got the bus to work. Can't afford a car, god love her.' The trouble is that for too many Mary's, the bus isn't an option, it can't be, it doesn't bloody well exist. So, what happens? She either moves to another area, for another job and then buys a car etc., etc., another vehicle added to the already stretched road network and the problem at her original location isn't solved or goes into debt to buy a car to get to her job etc., etc. Unless you're going to go shopping as in groceries or other activity that requires a boot, you shouldn't be forced to bring a car. Access to decent public transport shouldn't be a favour that govt provides to it's citizens. It's as necessary as heating and electricity etc etc

Slightly Kwackers

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121167198#Comment_121167198

Nail on the head!

Some cities and places I have worked in have the public transport off perfectly.

London was a sheer pleasure to move around in. Well compared to doing anything else in the hole anyway.

The dreaded catch 22, weaning the citizens from cars is like the rest of the approach to saving the planet. It is going to need highly skilled planners to address the problem, very highly skilled politicians to convince people taking a personal, county or even entire country hit that seems to favour others is a worthy and desireable cause.

I hope along with the EU that Ireland approaches the problem and convinces those that will be worse off that it's for the best.

Not an easy thing when it looks like the next door neighbours are ramping up the oil production again and were even looking into new coal production recently.

I notice one of the neighbours has built his wall up with earth ready for the winter. This is entirely new but the floods are increasing at high tide.

I thought this house would see me out, but I tend to wonder :-(

Maybe the kayak bought last year will have a more serious purpose :-(

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121166988#Comment_121166988

I knew that I was not wrong as I have travelled that journey reasonably regularly by bus for over thirty five years. There’s no substitute for on the ground experience!! :-)

How you could even remotely think those original times were accurate was beyond me! Clearly you don’t use the bus very much I’m guessing?

But yes the journey times by bus are fine between Rathfarnham and Dundrum and the A4 will add an extra connection in due course on top of the orbital routes and the 74.

A few tips that I’ve found with journey planners:

• Always check the detailed results especially if it looks odd.
• Check the walking speed in the settings - walking times in journey planners are often overestimated too. I set it to fast for myself. Also check the maximum walking time. Walking a little further might get you there faster.
• Check the minimum connection time - useful to extend it out for longer journeys

And unless you’re going to the old shopping centre, it’s “Dundrum Town Centre” that you need to put into it.

tom1ie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121167476#Comment_121167476

Your right I don’t use busses much and when I do it’s really only one route into the CC.

However I wouldn’t be persuaded to use a bus service to go to dundrum or clondalkin because the car is more convenient and quicker and to be honest if you put dundrum shopping centre into a journey planner and you get sent to rowlestown near Ashbourne- I’d say maybe the journey planner needs a bit of work too?

gjim

"Access to decent public transport shouldn't be a favour that govt provides to its citizens." - this is an unrealistic expectation particularly given the dispersed nature of a lot of rural housing in Ireland. PT works with clusters of habitation - at a minimum villages, towns and cities and this is where PT investment should be concentrated. Providing PT services to one-off houses or tiny clusters of a few houses should be at the very bottom of the list of priorities.

Sam Russell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121169935#Comment_121169935

I think the definition of PT needs to be broadened to allow a level of PT that suits each type of habitation.

For example a city should expect a high frequency, reliable metro system serving 80% or more of the population in reasonable walking distance of a metro station. For Dublin, at least three lines would be needed. We have none, but one in mid planning.

Intercity rail should provide a hourly connection with high speed rail. Well, Cork Dublin might qualify.

Inter town bus services - I think we are just there. Rural bus is probably just about there, but both need to improve.

City bus and tram - Dublin, getting there. Rest - well not at the races.

But I am sure an all Ireland review of public transport might come up with a solution.

Charles Babbage

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121169935#Comment_121169935

Perhaps. But they have done a poor job of any sort of rational park and ride in the 26 counties.

Sam Russell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121171231#Comment_121171231

Well, there is one on the Luas Red Cow stop. That is as good as you could want.

Plus one at Oranmore. That leaves 24 counties.

Charles Babbage

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121171350#Comment_121171350

And the M3, so perhaps my statement is a quite sweeping. However, I think that park and ride and park and share has a significant role to play, but is usually only an afterthought. The present philosophy is often that people should use public transport door to door (with a short walk), when public transport doesn't even aspire to supporting many such journeys. If people are willing to aggregate themselves by a short drive then they should be encouraged to do so.

hans aus dtschl

Park and Ride definitely has a role to play, just like you describe it: facilitating rural people getting to the city edge.

But Park and Ride is also problematic. You usually need a car to make good use of them, and if you have a car you already have sunk the largest portion of the cost of your transport. The car is comfortable, you control the climate, you have lots of space and you have the luxury of unplanned route changes etc.

Most people, once they are in a pattern of using the car, struggle to get out of it for even the most tiny journeys. And Park and Ride attempts to go against that: ripping people out of their comfortable transport option and trying to get them to switch modes. It will only work well if the rest of the journey is made very painful by car, is my opinion. It means tolling, it means low priority on the road lanes and at traffic lights, it means high parking prices etc. And it also means clampdown on out-of-town shopping centres which convenience car users.

And then you don't want to encourage people to do the daily 2-hour commute from midlands to Dublin etc, which is unsustainable: and in that case is P&R just facilitating a bad practice? It's difficult.

Sam Russell

This whole mode shift is not everyone, or even most people. If 10% change to walk up to 1 km, and anther 10% cycle up to 5 km, and 20% change to pt, then nearly half the problem is solved. Another solution would be the pay-and-go cars that allow short term rental.

Add extra charges for those that do not shift to active travel - like introduce a congestion charge within the canals, removal of some parking places every year, and make all bus lanes and cycle lanes fully enforced.

Of course, it takes time to do this, but removal of cars will allow the the buses to travel quicker, so improving service at no extra cost, and in fact lower cost.

KrisW1001

Agreed. Despite the spittle-filled rants of the UK and US right wing, nobody is trying to eliminate private car use (okay, there are some hard-Greens, but every movement has its lunatic fringe...). Private car transport is still a part of a future, environmentally-friendly and sustainable transport system, but the difference is that unlike today, going by private car will no longer be the majority mode of transport; it will go from being the default choice to the fill-in for those trips that can't be done on mass transport or active-transport.

The goal is to provide a better transport option to those people who could use it. Nobody's going to have their car taken from them, but if you asked the commuters stuck in their cars every morning and evening, they'd jump at the chance of being able to have someone else bring them to and from work - they drive because they have to, not because they want to.

Sam Russell

The car is going to be around for a long time.

The only thing that will change that is cost - either the cost of ownership, or running cost - always subject to taxation policy.

I have read of some UK EV owners finding their insurers are refusing to renew policies, or demanding huge increases - eye watering increases of 500%. Add to that the absence of adequate charging infrastructure - particularly at holiday weekends. Sounds a grim future for EV motorists.

mikemac2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121160256#Comment_121160256

For sure

Free public transport in Luxembourg and people widely predicated it would make no difference to horrendous traffic and that is exactly what happened. No difference at all.

The State has a carrot and stick approach of lots and lots of free Park & rides so to encourage everyone to park there and get the bus but if you choose to drive then the army of parking wardens will nail you with tickets for smallest offence. Some are actually quite petty and wardens do hang around creches ready to give tickets as a parent parks for 3-4 minutes max but alas that is a ticket. There is no clamping, just pay your ticket online before the deadline

The traffic mess continues. There could a free bus every 3 minutes and some will never give up their cars

KrisW1001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121180652#Comment_121180652

... in the UK. I think it's time we stopped looking at the UK as a nation that does things right when it comes to long-term infrastructure...

Here in Ireland, the future is brighter. There's much more investment in infrastructure, plus better grant support for home-owners to adopt an EV (e.g., solar panel grants, home charger grants). We are also a very different kind of population pattern than the UK: in many British city suburbs, there is no off-street parking, even in the most expensive neighbourhoods; Ireland's more later suburban development means there are relatively fewer houses without a driveway.

As for the insurance, "some UK EV owners" is kind of a meaningless description... "EV" covers everything from a Citroen Ami to a Rimac Nevera (currently the world's fastest production car). If insurers miscalculated risk on certain models, they would naturally ramp up premiums once that risk became known.

For what it's worth, comparison site MoneySupermarket reports that, in general, EV insurance cost in the UK is actually falling, not rising, but there's still about 10-20% higher insurance premium for driving an EV compared to similar-output ICE (I can actually understand the reason for this: a 100 kW EV is more comparable to a 150 kW ICE car in terms of acceleration and performance).

But UK insurance trends don't really matter in Ireland: their car insurance is based mainly on cost of repair to vehicles, ours is based mainly on the the very high cost of personal injury awards in this country.

hans aus dtschl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121173697#Comment_121173697

Yep I think the pay-as-you-go cars are possibly a significant part of the future transport system. People will be more comfortable taking the "risk" of going without a car if they feel there will be one available at reasonably short notice. Unfortunately I believe part of our insurance system still makes these schemes difficult. You need to have a car to accrue a "no claims bonus" and you lose it without an insured car. I could be wrong about that: Iread it a while back.

Sam Russell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121183805#Comment_121183805

Well, the insurance business make a big thing about the NCB.

It only applies to one car, and cannot be applied to a second car, even with the same driver and all else equal. So if I buy a second car, I start from scratch, with at best a new business discount. There is an exception - if I buy a 'classic' car, that is one over 30 years old.

However, I see the the PAYG cars filling the 'second' car slot. If I have one car in the household, but occasionally require a second one, then the PAYG makes a huge amount of sense.

Could I dispense with the single car and rely on the PAYG car? I would feel that might be a step too far as there may not be one available in an emergency, but that might change. Basically, the PAYG car is a self drive taxi, so the attitude may change if the PAYG service matures. I see a lot of the PAYG bikes around now - not just Dublin Bikes.