The emergence of "Zombie" by The Cranberries as an Irish sporting anthem

Downlinz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121156025#Comment_121156025

I've heard people last weekend interpreting it as everything from being pro-IRA to being pro-British army and everything in between.

Dolores has said herself it's a humanitarian focused song promoting peace and exploring the sadness of experiencing the loss of innocent lives, it was never meant to carry a politically aligned message on Northern Ireland.

Everything else is just people inserting their own politics into it and hearing what they want to hear.

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121156129#Comment_121156129

Also, the music video arguably shows the British Army in a bad light - armed soldiers patrolling the streets of Belfast with children playing in the background in what looks like a war zone. Are they there to keep the peace or as oppressors of the nationalist community? Nobody comes out of the song or the video looking good.

Annabella1

It’s an anti war song and a reminder that the IRA murdered 2 innocent children

musically it’s a belter to play after a match -I was in Paris and I have never experienced such intensity plain to see in the recordings

it’s here to stay !

Snooker Loopy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121156129#Comment_121156129

The song carries an explicit message in regard to the Troubles. The song was written in response to Warrington. Implicit in the song is an opposition to all violence in the North - "their tanks and their bombs and their bombs and their guns".

Warrington was the event that prompted the writing of the song because it was done by bastards who were claiming to speak in OUR name, the name of the Irish people.

A common narrative in Europe around Islamist massacres, rightly or wrongly, is that Muslims in general do not do enough to speak out against mindless nihilistic murder carried out by people claiming to speak in the name of Islam.

Well here was an instance, like Bono's "**** the revolution", where a great Irish artist used their platform to speak out vehemently that these terrorists were NOT speaking for us, the Irish people, that we were bitterly opposed to this mindless nihilism.

Was the singing of Zombie a political message by Irish rugby supporters? No, because the song just happened to be played in the stadium, and it's a n absolute banger of a tune to which we all know the words of the chorus at least.

But the song does carry an explicitly anti-PIRA message and is a call for peace to break out, and we all know this, which is why the Shinners hate it.

Long Sean Silver

time for people to let it go and move on. happily the vast majority of people are, but there's a small rump of republicans who cannot.

they were defeated militarily so in fairness i suppose it's difficult as they continue to wallow in bitterness.

Sleepy

The **** delusion from some on this thread. Let's state a few facts:

• The Provisional IRA were a paramilitary. Definition: an organization whose structure, tactics, training, and function are similar to those of a professional military, but which is not part of a country's official or legitimate armed forces.
• They were not appointed, recruited or endorsed by the Irish state and did not represent the vast majority of the people of Ireland who were horrified by their terrorism, murders, kidnappings, violence and other assorted criminal activities. The popularity of the song at the heart of this "debate" reflects that horror.
• While they may have viewed themselves as freedom fighters, the terrorist campaign waged by the Provisional IRA was not a war by any definition. Wars are conducted between sovereign nations. Paramilitaries may be engaged during war by governments (e.g. the Azov paramilitary battalion in the current war in Ukraine) but they can't declare wars as, by definition, they're not a legitimate armed force and don't have the mandate to do so.

cms88

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121156048#Comment_121156048

If she's doesn't get her way she's also very fast to play the gender card as well as always being the victim.

Snooker Loopy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121156165#Comment_121156165

And riddled with British agents, possibly including Martin McGuinness, depending on who one believes.

growleaves

'These thickos are all very quick to go abusive'

So are you. You call people "thickos" and "rabid" when you don't like their point of view.

Snooker Loopy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121156197#Comment_121156197

When somebody claims to have a position which is centred on the primacy of the victim and then abuses anybody who calls them out on their support for the mocking of Troubles victims, yes, that makes them a rabid thicko.

As thick as thick can be.

downthemiddle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121155940#Comment_121155940

There is a particular irony that someone who posts under the moniker of Musicrules finds the lyrics of a song condemning the murder of innocent children objectionable.

For Forks Sake

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121156108#Comment_121156108

Two examples below of horrendously stupid takes from supposed academics, qualifications must be handed out free with a packet of crisps in some educational establishments if this is the intellect of their graduates

https://twitter.com/drorfh/status/1705954241993486375?t=Y7RZhC-9iQAzkRl5KMG7AA&s=19

https://twitter.com/drorfh/status/1706009783961055521?t=iAlz_FIg_-vg_Ny_6nCZLw&s=19

https://twitter.com/LMcAtackney/status/1705713700005367935?t=bvTbSpqm-zpkoGc-aOhoGA&s=19

Although it would seem that there was no issue with it when being sung at a festival in SFs West Belfast heartland, that renowned bastion of West Brit rugby supporters 🙄🙄

Weepsie

So some people have a problem with a song because someone from limerick can't or shouldn't write a song that is in anyway related to the troubles because they're removed from it.

Same people don't like the backlash against the Wolfe tones songs, songs written by lads from Bluebell in Dublin that is obviously hand in glove experience of those in the troubles.

Snooker Loopy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121156226#Comment_121156226

Perhaps "Musicrules" is so named because that poster thinks there should be a rule in Irish society that only "music" which glorifies the Provos should be allowed?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121151533#Comment_121151533

If Irelands Call is the inclusive anthem for the Irish rugby team, shouldn't NI have a similar one for their soccer team? GSTK is not representative of the whole NI community.

Weepsie

Also, I don't think the irfu pick the songs that are played in a french stadium

yagan

I always thought she was talking about the brits who created the conflict, "with their tanks and their guns...."

Did the IRA have tanks at their disposal in Northern Ireland?

Irish civilians going all the way back to penal times were always at a military disadvantage as Heaney captured so well in his Requiem For A Croppy.

Snooker Loopy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121156284#Comment_121156284

Yes they should. I don't for the life of me understand why Danny Boy is not their anthem. But just because they don't have an inclusive anthem isn't a reason for the IRFU to not have one.

downthemiddle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121156288#Comment_121156288

How can the Shinners be outraged about the "West Brits" if you keep pointing out the truth to them?

gormdubhgorm

I think it is great this whole thread created by the OP shows that the majority of right thinking Irish people are moving away from the old tropes.

The majority of SF have to move away from the old 'up the ra' thousand yard stare tropes as well in order to get elected. I view it as a maturing of the Irish people. And the Irish people are slowly dragging Sinn Fein into normalisation - by democracy.

But the bit that annoys me is that the twitter/X comments in the OP's post view Zombie as a partitionist song. It is not. It is anti violence full stop.

In my view if anyone is partitionist it is SF - with two distinct parties North and South in two different jurisdictions who say very different things to each electorate. That is why SF have two leaders.

In SF NI - the rhetoric is more on symbolism and ending partition celebrating fallen heroes, and comrades who fought in 'the struggle' and so on

IN SF ROI - the rhetoric is focused on housing rent etc, the republican line is completely tone down to suit the electorate.

SF - a tale of two parties with two different rhetorics - that is partition in all but name IMO.

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121155862#Comment_121155862

I think we have to give Delores the benefit of the doubt. Maybe she was just capturing one genuine human perspective, or maybe she was guilty of over simplifying, but comparing her to a FG TD is going too far!

She doesn't deserve that 😠

Snooker Loopy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121155862#Comment_121155862

The sentiments are entirely in accordance with public sentiment in Ireland - all of Ireland - after Warrington. In March 1993, it was entirely obvious and had been for over two decades that the Provos' campaign was utterly futile. There was an absolute thirst for peace and for an end to murder. Warrington was an act that sparked universal revulsion, as would the Shankill Bomb and Greysteel later that year and Loughinisland the following year.

This was evil nihilism and this had to stop.

This thing about "southerners didn't understand the issues" is bullshit. There is nothing hard to understand about "this orgy of nihilistic murder has to stop, now". That was the main issue that dwarfed everything else.

downthemiddle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121156283#Comment_121156283

Songs that, ironically, for the most part are bastardised versions of old English folk songs. The hypocrisy of their stance should not be lost on people.

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121155862#Comment_121155862

I take your point as a valid one. I don't think it was meant as criticism of nationalists per se, rather a reaction to that event.

But I could see that singing it at all Ireland sports event could be offensive to the broader nationalist community. In that case it is saying let's sing about a terrible event done in the name of nationalism, while ignoring what was done in the name of loyalism.

Especially if some, as it seems, are pushing it with an anti SF agenda.

For Forks Sake

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121156346#Comment_121156346

From the time . I'm sure some daft shinner will be along to try and claim that Sinead O'Connor was a partitionist, or an apologist for de Brits 🙄

end of the road

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121154561#Comment_121154561

shoot to kil was aimed at civilians and not at any PIRA individuals.

the SAS were themselves involved in killing of civilians in northern ireland.

shoot to kill had no effect on the PIRA agreeing to the good friday agreement and this mythical surrender.

it was actually the british who surrendered if there was any surrender, as they realised they could not defeat the PIRA and they could not bring an end to the conflict without sidelining beligerent unionism and ending the supremicist state.

L.Ball

Well anyway, easiest way to shut up a shinner when they pipe up is ask the following question; if nationalist areas were under IRA protection, how were they flooded with drugs?

Panthro

Suppose if we had to come up with a good stadium chant, (and I feel it almost needs it's own thread at this stage purely for suggestions here) but I'd venture with a "Free from Desire" spin going with the lyrics "Keith Earls on fire...your defence is petrified!...Na-na-na-na-na-na-na, na-na-na, na-na-na!"

It's probably been done. Suggestions anyone.

end of the road

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121154592#Comment_121154592

both claims are incorrect and have been discredited again and again.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121156161#Comment_121156161

The Shinners don't even hate it. I know many a Shinners who sings it at Limerick hurling matches.

Or at least they didn't hate it until this week when they got told to hate by their social media team.

You see it all the time here with Trump/Russia/NI/immigration. People just clearly rabbiting what ever they have been told to.