The emergence of "Zombie" by The Cranberries as an Irish sporting anthem

Danzy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121159385#Comment_121159385

95% of the population don't even know that Zombie is being discussed in this context or any context and a higher % don't even care.

Snooker Loopy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121159218#Comment_121159218

What was the "legitimacy" of Warrington, of La Mon, Claudy, Kingsmills, Enniskillen, Omagh?

Of firebombing pregnant mothers to death? Of abducting the mentally challenged 15 year old son of a Ballymurphy victim and butchering him?

What was the legitimacy of that?

yagan

Only people who want to make it an anti Irish independence song are making an issue now.

Is that other rugby anthem Free From Desire a political statement too?

Anyway considering the brain damage rugby inflicts I think zombie is the perfect brain cell annilation anthem.

JamBur

What a crock of shite, the song was sung because it is a good sing along tune, people were caught up in the passion of the moment. The vast majority see no political innuendo in it. I was at the Romanian game, it was played/sung there, I can guarantee you nobody was goading or loading the lyrics with any hidden meaning. Those objecting to it are the same ones who would be screaming blue murder if anyone criticised their likes.

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121159506#Comment_121159506

The last two points show your 'argument' for what it is more like.

Even if those people were only singing the song because it's a great tune (and I've said earlier I think that's why most were) singing it at these matches has now become politicized.

And you can't even say your not happy about that... In your own words...

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121150460#Comment_121150460

Politics out of sport please.

Snooker Loopy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121159652#Comment_121159652

So you want to censor The Fields Of Athenry too because it's political.

Politics and sport have always mixed. Sport is inherently political. Ireland's Call is there because of politics. Amhran na bhFiann is played in Dublin at rugby matches because of politics. You do understand that, yes?

After Warrington, Gerry Adams lost his seat.

The SDLP, a nationalist party that was against violence, dwarfed SF at the Polls, as they did right up to the vote for the Good Friday Agreement when nationalists gave SF their vote so they would put their guns and their bombs away.

The Cranberries song captured the mood both North and South at the time, the "Not in my name" marches.

SF have become brilliant at PR, and it's funny how it's this that people have become united on in remembering the PIRA atrocities.

And it's just a song with a good riff at a game! As a politician ince said, it's the little things that get ya 😂

Danzy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121159579#Comment_121159579

We all agree that war is never nice, that the good guys can do things that are wrong and very regrettable.

I think we all accept that the Irish forces were,in general, very adept at targeting enemy combatants, whether that is nearer to 60% rather than 70% is an ongoing debate, either figure is one that most armies couldn't dream of.

Look at the current Russian occupation of Ukraine, it shows why smaller countries must have an ability to defend themselves and take out enemy combatants and their allies.

It still doesn't change the reality of war being hell but like the Russians going West to Ukraine wasn't in the Ukrainian interest, the English sending soldiers west to us, wasn't in our interest either.

Not having a force to defend oneself is not an option for a country.

HerrKuehn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121159350#Comment_121159350

For me the obvious choice for the national anthem would be Mark McCabe's Maniac

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSCnDIoaDTM&ab_channel=DTAHREMIXES

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121159666#Comment_121159666

There you go with that logic of yours again.

I don't see 'Fields of Athenry' as a political song. As I've said earlier I see it as a romantic sing along tune. Why would I 'want it banned'?

And the jump to Ireland's call is astounding. Was that not brought in to be acceptable to both traditions?

You've decided now that politics and sport do mix, once it meets your political agenda, which it seems is 'sickening the hole' of those that don't agree with you.

Snooker Loopy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121159681#Comment_121159681

Not having a force to defend oneself is not an option for a country.

OK so you're in favour of joining NATO.

Akrasia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121159652#Comment_121159652

Feck off. We shouldn't be pandering to the tiny minority of people who object to a song that has been listened to billions of times all around the world by people from all backgrounds. The song, is first and foremost, a massive global hit and one of the defining songs of the 1990s, and a song that was recorded by one of Ireland's most popular bands, who's lead singer died young and has a very special place in the heart of people from Limerick, Munster and Ireland in general.

The fact that some people who already hate rugby because it's a 32 county sport that doesn't force the Ulster players to sing Amhran Na Bhfiann as our only anthem before every game, object to it because they don't like that it criticises their own preferred paramilitary organisation for bombing and maiming innocent people should be completely irrelevant.

The central message of the song is opposed to mindless murder. If that's a political message that you can't get behind, then you have issues (not you personally, but people who object to this song)

The song itself doesn't say anything about the goal of a united Ireland, it doesn't say the Unionists were right. It just says people shouldn't be murdering innocent people in our name.

That's it. Everyone from all walks of life should be able to get behind this message.

Snooker Loopy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121159704#Comment_121159704

Well The Fields Of Athenry is a political song, it's an overtly political song.

I'm delighted that certain people's holes are sickened by the singing of Zombie, yes. It's absolutely hilarious.

keeponhurling

If you just look at the lyrics, you wouldn't particularly think it was about Warrington (or any other specific incident).

It just sounds like a lament to all sorts of violence, why are we still fighting. Obviously in a fight there are two sides. Everybody was fed up of all violence by the early 1990s, a few years later we had ceasefires and later the Agreement. I'm sure it reflected public sentiment at that time.

Terrible things were done on both sides and I think the song reflects that.

Danzy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121159713#Comment_121159713

Yes, our army could hold the British in the North but the big threat this century is going to be China and it's legion of Comrade States that are in its camp.

It's an all together different scale facing the entire West.

Off topic though the question is. The national army is stood down, the State Army has been run in to near oblivion the armies of all of Western Europe are a pale imitation of even a decade ago.

downthemiddle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121159681#Comment_121159681

We don’t accept anything of the sort. The Provisional IRA were not, never have been or never will be “Irish forces “.

Any claim that they were is “in your head “.

Danzy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121159737#Comment_121159737

Interesting perspective, thank you.

Francis McM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121159681#Comment_121159681

When you say "Irish forces", the only legitimate Irish forces south of the border were the Irish army and Gardai, both of whom the pira murdered.

If you were around during the troubles you would have seen how SF only got 1 or 2% of the vote south of the border and how detested the provos were by most people north and south. And do not forget it was not unknown for Irish state forces to kill Republicans. For example DeValera executed IRA prisoners in cold blood in the forties. No outcry from the public. And during the troubles it was Republicans murdered here south of the border, and kidnapped and done numerous bank raids, which cost everyone. And sometimes Republicans got killed back here south of the border ( for example when the border fox got stopped at a Garda/Irish army checkpoint and his companion in the car killed). No big outcry about shoot to kill then either.

Akrasia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121159681#Comment_121159681

The song wasn't written about an attack on the occupying army in Northern Ireland as part of an asymmetric war. It was written after a terrorist bombing of a civilian area nowhere near any legitimate military target.

War crimes targeting innocent civilians should be condemned whether they're carried out by the hegemony, or by a resistance force

jm08

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121159360#Comment_121159360

I singled out Damian Walsh because it happened at the same time as the Warrington Bombings and his mother made the comment the other day about no condolences coming up from the South for him or indeed any songs being written about the loyalist paramilitaries (in collusion with the British State) murdering children.

Ash.J.Williams

People are failing to grasp the concepts original songwriting

Snooker Loopy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121159758#Comment_121159758

Do you know who Danielle Carter was? Do you know who Heidi Hazell was?

Musicrules

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121158127#Comment_121158127

I have addressed the atrocities committed by the PIRA multiple times. I know they were wrong and indefensible, I've said so multiple times. I'm pointing out that things aren't as black and white as you like to paint. They did horrible things but that doesn't mean that they were on the right side in the war. It's not whataboutery to talk about similar war efforts in Ireland and other countries. It's pointing out huge levels of hypocrisy, it's not just you, the hypocrisy is rampant amongst many in Ireland.

During the Easter Rising, the majority of those killed were civilians. During the Old IRA's campaign, about 40% of people they killed were civilians, far higher than the PIRA. More died within a 7 year spell of the Old IRA compared to 30 years during the war in the North. The Old IRA disappeared far more people than the PIRA, 4 times as many.

In 2016, the Easter Rising was celebrated by huge numbers, the Old IRA campaign is widely celebrated and rightfully so. They did horrible things, just like the PIRA but their fight was just, exactly like the PIRA. Enough of the hypocrisy.

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121159729#Comment_121159729

Yes indeed, by 1993/94 people were sick to their back teeth of the violence and endless killings. There was a sense that even republicans in NI had had enough....there was no mood whatsoever for another decade of killings and bombings.

The song reflected the mood at the time. People were now sick of the IRA (this doesn't mean that they had suddenly become West Brits....it's just that the public were getting totally turned off by the atrocities and killings on all sides and support for Sinn Fein was actually in decline).

downthemiddle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121159790#Comment_121159790

The only hypocrisy is the false equivalence in your post as you attempt to rewrite history.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121159031#Comment_121159031

So first of all we were told it was dividing people, then we were told is was offensive to some people, later on we were told it was goading people, now we are reduced down to it goading the opposition in the stadium. Well, WTF, if you are singing songs in a stadium at a match, and the songs are not goading the opposition, then what are you doing there?

At the end of the day, this is song born of revulsion at one of the worst atrocities committed by the PIRA. If you are in any way offended by it, you are the one with the problem, because you are defending the bombing of children.

RoyalCelt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121159009#Comment_121159009

The British army murdered civilians yet they are still heroically sung about. So did the Americans and almost every other invading army over the years.

The IRA was a defensive rebellion army created by an illegal invasion and continued occupation of Ireland. Killing civilians is 100% wrong but the blame lies with Britain for creating a situation where Irish people are sent to such extremes.

Siding against the IRA is falling for the classic divide and conquer tactics of the invader. Nobody sings about the IRA regarding innocent civilians that died. They represent our struggle against the imperialists who've harrased this Island for 1000 years and continue to occupy it.

If a Ukrainian militia or official army bomb Donetsk and civilians die who's to blame? Russia for invading and creating the conditions for this to happen.

If the Taliban target some American soldiers in a busy area who is to blame? American for illegally invading Afghanistan.

This whole anti IRA mentality created by our pro British media is such a cuck mentality and it always will be. Thankfully the majority of under 40's today understand this.

downthemiddle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121159742#Comment_121159742

My pleasure. I enjoy calling out attempts to twist the truth.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121159652#Comment_121159652

I don't have a problem that it has become politicised, in fact, I welcome it.

I really want to see people come out and say they are against a song because it calls out criminal thugs who would bomb children, but I don't think they'll crawl out from under their rocks.

The song is about a particular atrocity that was one of the worst.

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121159716#Comment_121159716

But it's no longer about a tiny amount of people. Look at all the anti SF comments here.

How many people on this island vote for them?

It's become bigger now. Who's fault that was, I'm not sure, but that's now how it is.