The emergence of "Zombie" by The Cranberries as an Irish sporting anthem

For Forks Sake

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121156108#Comment_121156108

Two examples below of horrendously stupid takes from supposed academics, qualifications must be handed out free with a packet of crisps in some educational establishments if this is the intellect of their graduates

https://twitter.com/drorfh/status/1705954241993486375?t=Y7RZhC-9iQAzkRl5KMG7AA&s=19

https://twitter.com/drorfh/status/1706009783961055521?t=iAlz_FIg_-vg_Ny_6nCZLw&s=19

https://twitter.com/LMcAtackney/status/1705713700005367935?t=bvTbSpqm-zpkoGc-aOhoGA&s=19

Although it would seem that there was no issue with it when being sung at a festival in SFs West Belfast heartland, that renowned bastion of West Brit rugby supporters 🙄🙄

Snooker Loopy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121156226#Comment_121156226

Perhaps "Musicrules" is so named because that poster thinks there should be a rule in Irish society that only "music" which glorifies the Provos should be allowed?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121151533#Comment_121151533

If Irelands Call is the inclusive anthem for the Irish rugby team, shouldn't NI have a similar one for their soccer team? GSTK is not representative of the whole NI community.

yagan

I always thought she was talking about the brits who created the conflict, "with their tanks and their guns...."

Did the IRA have tanks at their disposal in Northern Ireland?

Irish civilians going all the way back to penal times were always at a military disadvantage as Heaney captured so well in his Requiem For A Croppy.

Snooker Loopy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121156284#Comment_121156284

Yes they should. I don't for the life of me understand why Danny Boy is not their anthem. But just because they don't have an inclusive anthem isn't a reason for the IRFU to not have one.

downthemiddle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121156288#Comment_121156288

How can the Shinners be outraged about the "West Brits" if you keep pointing out the truth to them?

gormdubhgorm

I think it is great this whole thread created by the OP shows that the majority of right thinking Irish people are moving away from the old tropes.

The majority of SF have to move away from the old 'up the ra' thousand yard stare tropes as well in order to get elected. I view it as a maturing of the Irish people. And the Irish people are slowly dragging Sinn Fein into normalisation - by democracy.

But the bit that annoys me is that the twitter/X comments in the OP's post view Zombie as a partitionist song. It is not. It is anti violence full stop.

In my view if anyone is partitionist it is SF - with two distinct parties North and South in two different jurisdictions who say very different things to each electorate. That is why SF have two leaders.

In SF NI - the rhetoric is more on symbolism and ending partition celebrating fallen heroes, and comrades who fought in 'the struggle' and so on

IN SF ROI - the rhetoric is focused on housing rent etc, the republican line is completely tone down to suit the electorate.

SF - a tale of two parties with two different rhetorics - that is partition in all but name IMO.

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121155862#Comment_121155862

I think we have to give Delores the benefit of the doubt. Maybe she was just capturing one genuine human perspective, or maybe she was guilty of over simplifying, but comparing her to a FG TD is going too far!

She doesn't deserve that 😠

Snooker Loopy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121155862#Comment_121155862

The sentiments are entirely in accordance with public sentiment in Ireland - all of Ireland - after Warrington. In March 1993, it was entirely obvious and had been for over two decades that the Provos' campaign was utterly futile. There was an absolute thirst for peace and for an end to murder. Warrington was an act that sparked universal revulsion, as would the Shankill Bomb and Greysteel later that year and Loughinisland the following year.

This was evil nihilism and this had to stop.

This thing about "southerners didn't understand the issues" is bullshit. There is nothing hard to understand about "this orgy of nihilistic murder has to stop, now". That was the main issue that dwarfed everything else.

downthemiddle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121156283#Comment_121156283

Songs that, ironically, for the most part are bastardised versions of old English folk songs. The hypocrisy of their stance should not be lost on people.

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121155862#Comment_121155862

I take your point as a valid one. I don't think it was meant as criticism of nationalists per se, rather a reaction to that event.

But I could see that singing it at all Ireland sports event could be offensive to the broader nationalist community. In that case it is saying let's sing about a terrible event done in the name of nationalism, while ignoring what was done in the name of loyalism.

Especially if some, as it seems, are pushing it with an anti SF agenda.

For Forks Sake

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121156346#Comment_121156346

From the time . I'm sure some daft shinner will be along to try and claim that Sinead O'Connor was a partitionist, or an apologist for de Brits 🙄

end of the road

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121154561#Comment_121154561

shoot to kil was aimed at civilians and not at any PIRA individuals.

the SAS were themselves involved in killing of civilians in northern ireland.

shoot to kill had no effect on the PIRA agreeing to the good friday agreement and this mythical surrender.

it was actually the british who surrendered if there was any surrender, as they realised they could not defeat the PIRA and they could not bring an end to the conflict without sidelining beligerent unionism and ending the supremicist state.

L.Ball

Well anyway, easiest way to shut up a shinner when they pipe up is ask the following question; if nationalist areas were under IRA protection, how were they flooded with drugs?

Panthro

Suppose if we had to come up with a good stadium chant, (and I feel it almost needs it's own thread at this stage purely for suggestions here) but I'd venture with a "Free from Desire" spin going with the lyrics "Keith Earls on fire...your defence is petrified!...Na-na-na-na-na-na-na, na-na-na, na-na-na!"

It's probably been done. Suggestions anyone.

end of the road

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121154592#Comment_121154592

both claims are incorrect and have been discredited again and again.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121156161#Comment_121156161

The Shinners don't even hate it. I know many a Shinners who sings it at Limerick hurling matches.

Or at least they didn't hate it until this week when they got told to hate by their social media team.

You see it all the time here with Trump/Russia/NI/immigration. People just clearly rabbiting what ever they have been told to.

gormdubhgorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121156378#Comment_121156378

Jayus that is 30 years ago now. That was the real turning point, the Irish public were disgusted by that bombing.

I remember at school one of my teachers put a photo/picture of Tim Parry up beside the blackboard and left it there all year.

It is no wonder that Delores was moved to pen a song about it, Irish people were sick of at that stage. There was nothing heroic about it the whole thing, and it was achieving nothing but pointless loss of lives. Worse still the 'people' who did it claimed to do it in the name of the Irish people.

end of the road

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121154769#Comment_121154769

they acted in the name of the nationalist community and many of the irish people who supported the rebellion.

they would not have been able to do what they did without the support they had.

no they won't have acted in the name of everyone the same as the BA and british government didn't act in the name of everyone.

nationalists and catholics were oppressed under the apartheid regime that operated in northern ireland, so yes you were talking about victims families as well, all of who's subjecation you support based on your posts.

downthemiddle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121156441#Comment_121156441

Interesting interpretation of an organisation that was riddled with touts, from the very top down. Were they acting in nationalist or British interests?

Snooker Loopy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121156361#Comment_121156361

Zombie could only be offensive to those who are trying to retrospectively justify the Provos' campaign of nihilistic murder.

And sure enough, that's where the howls of offence have come from.

The supposed political aspect to the playing of the song was inserted by Provo lovers. This has come back to bite them and then some, they've spectacularly misjudged things and they're now running away from the very debate they brought upon themselves, just like the IRA ran away in 1994 and 1997.

This thread would not exist only for those toe curlingly cringey howls of fake offence from Provo lovers.

supermans ghost

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121151103#Comment_121151103

aah FFS, will you stop.

Take a trip up to Derry (lovely city) and while you are there, take a walking tour of the bog side and you will see the different locations marked with flowers etc where young kids were shot and killed by the British Army. As a previous poster stated it was a dirty war both sides committed atrocities.

personally I hate the song zombie, it’s depressing , how someone would push it as a sports anthem for Irish fans is beyond me.

Here’s an idea, how about “one road “ by the Wolfe tones upbeat song, great lyrics and all you have to do is change “singin a soldiers song” to “singin Ireland’s call” to appease the northern protestants.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121156403#Comment_121156403

"it was actually the british who surrendered if there was any surrender"

Hmmm, yet it clearly states in the Constitutional Issues section of the Belfast/Good Friday Agreement that a United Ireland can only come about with the consent of the majority of the people of NI. Not sure how this can be construed as 'surrender' ........?

gormdubhgorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121156441#Comment_121156441

They didn't act in the name of the majority of the Irish people as simple as that, unless you are 'partitionist' and only count the warped loo la's particularly in NI, and the odd loo la in elsewhere. Those who Delores sang about the Zombies.

And she was spot on. When they finally copped themselves on, many didn't know what to with themselves and turned to crime instead. These were not people to be lauded and praised.

ArthurDayne

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121156125#Comment_121156125

To be honest with you Snooker Loopy, I grew up in the North and people who come out with views as fervently entrenched as yours tended to be part of the problem — not part of the solution. There is plenty of blame to go around for what happened in the north, but there were plenty of people who crowed about murder and violence but did nothing constructive to actually promote or achieve it — and oft times fell into the same simplistic traps of "murderers this" and "bastards that" which actually probably compounded the problems. You seem to fall right into it.

There are many in the South who gladly milk the moral high ground afforded to them by the fact that the conflict was up North and they could preach peace from their armchairs. Things get a bit more complicated when it's a centuries old division woven into the very fabric of the world around you as soon as you opened the front door.

My advice to you would be to calm down and maybe turn to some other activity for the evening, other than being the arbiter of good and evil.

gormdubhgorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121156461#Comment_121156461

Self interest is how most of them acted in! 'The cause' was a cover when all was said and done.

Snooker Loopy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121156472#Comment_121156472

I've been to Derry on multiple occasions and I'd much prefer anything by The Undertones to the Wolfe Tones, thanks.

Did the fact Bloody Sunday happened mean Bloody Friday and Claudy were justified?

Did the fact the Reavey murders at Whitecross happened mean Kingsmills was justified?

Did the fact the Castlerock murders happened mean Warrington was justified?

billie1b

No because if they were to play an anthem for Northern Ireland it would be 'Londonderry Air' as used in all (or most) sporting events for Northern Ireland, they don't have an official national anthem as is but that one is known as their sporting anthem.

L.Ball

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121156441#Comment_121156441

So when Gerry Adams was covering up his pedophile brother, was that acting in the name of the nationalist community?

Snooker Loopy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121156506#Comment_121156506

I'm absolutely entrenched in my views that the Provos waged a 27 year long campaign of nihilistic murder because that's exactly what it was. Are you saying I should I not be entrenched in this view? This has been posted before and it needs to be posted again - the words of John Hume.

end of the road

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121156014#Comment_121156014

you are incorrect, sinn fein are an all irish party.

they simply take advantage of the uk when they can because the uk owe them for brutalising the nationalist community.

Snooker Loopy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121156507#Comment_121156507

Tiocfaidh Armani, as the joke goes.

end of the road

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121156048#Comment_121156048

yes, they do the very thing you are guilty of yourself.

you have no moral authority or moral anything to criticise anyone, tbh.

end of the road

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121156074#Comment_121156074

they did, yes.

we didn't come up with it, it is just reality.

end of the road

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121156108#Comment_121156108

1 or 2 individuals who claim to be sinn fein and ira supporters, with the rest crying about it being people looking to have a rant about sf and the ira.

ultimately it's something over nothing like the celtic symphony fo/fake outrage.

end of the road

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121156165#Comment_121156165

the evidence shows that the IRA were not defeated and that it was impossible to defeat them militarily, a fact stated by individuals at the highest rank of the BA.

supermans ghost

Are you familiar with “tit for tat” killings, that’s how it was back then.

Get off your high horse, I’m sure if you had been there you would have solved it all with your magical powers of diplomacy and none of those atrocities would have happened. For every 3 examples you have , I could give you 6 by comparison, for example what did the Miami Showband do to deserve their fate.

Also seeing as you’re an undertones fan, did you know that their single “it’s Gonna Happen” (my favourite undertones song ) was written in support of the hunger strikes in 1981.

Does this mean that you’ll be burning all your undertones records now.

end of the road

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121156301#Comment_121156301

the IRA didn't have access to tanks no.

i would agree the song is more about the british though really.

supermans ghost

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121156518#Comment_121156518

Are you familiar with “tit for tat” killings, that’s how it was back then.

Get off your high horse, I’m sure if you had been there you would have solved it all with your magical powers of diplomacy and none of those atrocities would have happened. For every 3 examples you have , I could give you 6 by comparison, for example what did the Miami Showband do to deserve their fate.

Also seeing as you’re an undertones fan, did you know that their single “it’s Gonna Happen” (my favourite undertones song ) was written in support of the hunger strikes in 1981.

L.Ball

Daily reminder IRA were a criminal gang who LARPed as a paramilitary organization, their main objectives were Drugs, Protection and Gun Running to criminal gangs. If your child was hooked on drugs or owed dealers money, or your business was being leaned on, you couldn't go to the police, because then you'd be a tout and it's off to an unmarked grave with you, all "for the cause" of course. So anything that irks them or their supporters brings me no small amount of joy.

gormdubhgorm

When you think of it Zombie is an ideal song to be used as sporting anthem, simple lyrics good pumping air to it.

If people some minority of the warped minded are offended by Zombie, maybe it will wake them out of their slumber, and cop themselves on. Otherwise there is no hope for them.

Snooker Loopy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121156429#Comment_121156429

SF's social media strategists aren't stupid, whatever they are. The problem is many of their online boosters are thick as planks. These were the eejits who couldn't hold in their eejitry and ran with this idiotic narrative about Zombie supposedly being offensive to northern Catholics. It has backfired spectacularly and they're backtracking furiously.

Snooker Loopy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121156701#Comment_121156701

The reason it was like that was because the Provos deliberately created that cycle of murder.

That was nihilism.

Was John Hume on his high horse when he said what he said, which I referenced on the previous page?

supermans ghost

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121156506#Comment_121156506

Great post, well said Arthur.

Snooker Loopy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121156730#Comment_121156730

Every time anything like this raises its head it's an excuse for the warped minded to fall deeper into the rabbit hole of cultism.

The exact same thought processes that are at play with Trump's cult and with Russell Brand's cult are at play with the Provo lovers.

downthemiddle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121156685#Comment_121156685

The Miami Showband were as innocent as the children of Warrington but you should already know that.

When Gerry Adams ordered the murder of Jean McConville did she deserve her fate?

When Marty McGuinness kneecapped teenagers on The Bogside and in The Creggan did they deserve their fate?

Water John

When MLMC becomes Taoiseach, she'll tell us what to sing. I presume Zombie started being played in Thomond Park, a local Limerick song. The same as Frank and Walters, After All, gets played in Cork. No other agenda.

end of the road

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121156461#Comment_121156461

the PIRA wasn't riddle with touts.

it did have a few, sure, as did the loyalist paramilitaries and the BA also had touts for both sides.

end of the road

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121156478#Comment_121156478

it's not me constituting anything as a surrender, rather suggesting to the poster i replied to that if there was any surrender, the british capitulation and final realisation of reality would be more likely to constitute it.

end of the road

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121156587#Comment_121156587

you will have to ask him that, i can't speak for him.