Question for engineering or creative minds please

StupidLikeAFox

Keep it simple with one of these op - straight into the mouth.

Mellor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121153167#Comment_121153167

A stepper motor is not complex, and I don't think anybody said it was. The degrees of and movement in the whole movement are what makes it complex. Lifting and rotating at the same time. The movement pattern needs to adjust as you drink a pint, so weight sensors would be needed and something to run angle calculations.

Not incredibly complex. Certainly doable. But the very definition of an overengineered solution imo. IMO the best solution is the one that designs out the engineering requirements.

 I can't lift it with my arms anymore and because you drink through the head it's not possible with a straw.

This the is only part that triggers the Guinness being different to a lager. I'd question how much you need to lift and tilt a glass to drink Guinness enjoyably. As lifting and tilting the glass is what is adding the complexity.

Hijpo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121195951#Comment_121195951

You don't need to lift it. His wife pours his pint, place the glass in a cradle that holds close to the rim and pivots at that point at a height level with his mouth. The only thing that needs to happen is a tilt.

You could even program it to do slow incremental steps, with the previous step being the new wait position so its not being raised from 0 before the next drink is taken.

There is nothing forcing it to be over engineered unless you throw in unnecessary things like weight sensors and kinematics. If anything it's probably the cheapest and most future proof solution given the progressive nature of the condition.

Mellor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121195958#Comment_121195958

The post I was referring to as overly complex to was talking about a lifting arm that brings the glass to him. The counter balanced cradle was my suggestion for a simpler solution.

Ginger83

Just a little update

Diageo got back to me saying that they have not encountered my problem before and intend to explore this to see if they can assist with a solution.

There is a company in Dublin called Dolmen design. In Gaslnevin area. They designed the nitro surge device, the zero pub tap and the very high end home tap. The home tap tilts the glass.

Got lots of Red Dot design awards. They also have products designed for users with multiple different life challenges.

They have lots of industrial designers/software/mechanical , who would if willing (or allowed to) be able to sort this into a solution in no time at all.

I wish I was smart enough to help or had contacts to point you to.

But _No harm in asking. Guinness is good for you.

Ginger83

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121230233#Comment_121230233

Thanks for this. I will email them and they might be willing to help

mickdw

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121230450#Comment_121230450

I guess diageo will have been straight on to them if they have genuine intention to help.

kirving

I've been having a think about this, and it's really got to be something as basic as possible, ideally without a power supply.

There are three actions at minimum when drinking a pint.

1. Lifting the glass (linear)
2. Bringing the glass close to your mouth (linear)
3. Tilting the glass - but the centre of rotation needs to be at the rim, not the bottom of the glass.

The below concept is by no means a final design, but just to show that actions 2 and 3 could be completed reasonably well by a simple linkage mechanism. The idea is that the pint glass could sit in a hole in the red plate, so that the rim was approximately at the pivot point.

The height of the unit allows for some linear travel, before the tilting mechanism kicks in. It could be actuated by pulling the left side green upright, toward the drinker. The mechanical disadvantage of the lever woul mean that a gas spring would probably be needed to add some force to lift the glass. It would also need to be very securely mounted to the floor.

mickdw

That is the basis of what is needed.

If the angled bar was slotted at the top pin, it would allow an amount of movement towards the drinker before tilting at all. The slot could easily have adjustable travel.

funkey_monkey

Not being a Guinness drinker - what does drinking through the head actually do? Does it pull some of the head in with the stout when you drink?

emaherx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121195951#Comment_121195951

A stepper motor is not complex, and I don't think anybody said it was. The degrees of and movement in the whole movement are what makes it complex. Lifting and rotating at the same time. The movement pattern needs to adjust as you drink a pint, so weight sensors would be needed and something to run angle calculations.

There is really no need for any angle calculations or sensors, a couple of stepper motors and joystick control, he already uses a joystick to control a wheelchair. Same as any industrial loader 2 axis can be precisely controlled with a joystick and if a 3rd is needed a simple button for change over (the button can be foot operated).

kirving

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121237763#Comment_121237763

A couple of stepper motors, is one thing, but you also need a power supply, and a remote control, and wiring, and waterproofing, and failsafe electrical design (we cannot afford a short circuit and fire), and calibration, and anything else I've forgotten about to make and electrical system safe.

It's added complexity I'm my experience. Potentially justified if many were to be made, but right now it's just 1.

Hijpo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121238523#Comment_121238523

It's a hobby kit for kids and for some reason its expected to meet industrial safety standards and operate like a Staubli arm.

funkey_monkey

https://youtu.be/lrlV3VWGMps?feature=shared

Looks complex!

kirving

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121239569#Comment_121239569

Yes actually, it is.

Nevermind the consequences of spilling a (potentially) hot drink over someone, or dropping a glass, the risk of fire is a real one when dealing with anything electrical. Dublin Fire Brigade are constantly warning of the dangers of leaving phone chargers in overnight, because even very low voltage devices can cause a fire.

I'm not trying to put anyone's idea down, and personally I think the microphone stand is up there with the simplest and the best. Keeping away form electronics if at all possible is ideal.

Hijpo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121239863#Comment_121239863

But it isnt. It's a weighty pint not a hot drink, the motor isnt going to drop the glass the holder will , the risk of electrical fire is minimal, about as risky as anything else running 5v in your house and a lot less risky than batteries failing in an unattended phone while charging. Mount it on the frame to avoid coming into contact with spilled liquid if necessary. Potential risks can be mitigated.

I under stand you are not intentionally putting an idea down, however some of the down sides and complexities introduced in various posts do seem to be for the sake of listing down sides and complexity.

Anyway, I hope the OP gets sorted soon.

Cheers.

emaherx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121238523#Comment_121238523

Yes fail safe design is important regardless, even a fully mechanical solution poses risk, nobody wants to see a pint glass propelled into someone's face or the risk of pinch points etc.

But it's a low voltage system being proposed, IP rated PSU's are available off the shelf as are suitable controls. Yes the system would need to be put together by a competent person and liability may be a huge issue for anyone considering taking on the challenge.

funkey_monkey

Error.

mickdw

I don't see any need for automation.

Surely the end user in this case can operate a mechanical lever down at knee level or so to control the action of the pint glass.

2 to 1 lever should make the movement light and controllable.

Ginger83

Guys check this out. Found by a boardsie.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q5Ew81nZA1I

lostinsuperfunk

[quote]Guys check this out. Found by a boardsie.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q5Ew81nZA1I[/quote]

That's brilliant.

Some great suggestions on this thread, I hope you find one that works for you. Cheers!

Hijpo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121251327#Comment_121251327

Exactly what i was thinking but with a stepper winding on the string rather than a foot pedal pulling it.

mickdw

I've been doing some thinking on this based on kirving Post earlier.

Will post when I have a presentable idea.

Ginger83

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121265530#Comment_121265530

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121265577#Comment_121265577

At the moment I'm just considering if the most suitable would be floor standing, table standing or something that can be attached to the wheelchair.

We have a roofer in the family which might come in handy but I'm also wondering if I might be better approaching someone with design experience

Ginger83

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121265530#Comment_121265530

Instead of the foot pedal what would be very handy would be a larger joystick like the one on the wheelchair with forward to tilt forward for drinking and backwards to tilt upright.

shesty

I'd consider contacting NUIG, UCD, or DCU too OP.

I did a Bioengineering masters about 10 years ago in UCD, and my thesis was to work on a mattress material and frame design for an individual who needed someone to turn him every 30 mins at night - he wanted to try and get something that would do it automatically so his sleep would not be disturbed and he wouldn't need another person to stay in the room all night with him.It involved a good bit of 3D modelling.

Bioengineering can range from prosthetics and robotic limbs, implants for different diseases, machines in hospitals but also designs and solutions to help people living with disabilities with simple tasks around the home.

If you google those colleges in particular and perhaps Trinity aswell, you may find help.I mention those 4 specifically as they have well established bioengineering and related programmes ,and DCU also has good robotics and mechatronic programmes aswell.You might have some success there too.