Do Solicitors/Barristers have no shame?

StrawbsM

This is the final paragraph from a news report in April 2019

“The counsel said this was not a cold- blooded attack and his chance of a better life might be undone in a custodial sentence. “I would say he will not darken the court again”.

To me the above quote from the counsel is his personal opinion and how wrong he is

<Snip>

bladespin

Slasher case? They had form before that if it's the same person.

StrawbsM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121154378#Comment_121154378

Loads of form

Ten of Swords

Mod - I've snipped a section of the op which links a person to an current case.

You can discuss barrister conduct during trials etc but please do not discuss cases where the parties have not been named yet

StrawbsM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121154387#Comment_121154387

Apologies. Just makes me so mad when I read what the counsel had written.

Who the **** were they to say that they wouldn’t darken a court again.

lmao10

The revolving door is a money maker for them.

B.A._Baracus

In my opinion... solicitors will do, say and twist anything. It's the job. Conscience and morals take a back seat to money. I'm sure there are some out there who have a moral compass. 99.9% of them? naaaaah.

To quote the Jimmy Carr joke as someone was heckling him and informed Jimmy he was studying to be a solictor: "so... you know you're a cu*t"

BrianD3

Many years ago, an elderly relative of mine was stabbed and beaten in an aggravated burglary in his home where the two perps got away with about 50 quid. One got a short sentence, the other got a suspended one and the stuff said in court was sickening. He was from a respectable family, had a job and a girlfriend, played GAA (a letter from the club was produced) and had given up drinking. He was deemed highly unlikely to reoffend. Suspended sentence was the result.

Recently, I did some research using the irish newspaper archive and other sources to see what he has been up to since. I found that the same individual has been in more trouble for robbery and assault and again managed to get off without a custodial sentence. He has also, surprise, surprise, fathered several children who are probably thugs in their own right at this stage.

It's the system and Irish culture though. Expecting a legal representative not to say things like this in court is like expecting a dog not to bark.

ejmaztec

I think the Law Society must have put together a list of excuses and "promises" to be trolled out in every court case, just to give the impression that the lawyers are fully representing their clients.

Everybody knows it's all BS, even the lawyers, especially when someone with hundreds of previous convictions, has turned their life around, and has seen the light, and will never appear in court again.

Kat1170

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121154467#Comment_121154467

You're obviously new here. Don't worry, someone will be along shortly to explain to you how it actually costs them money and the actually do this work out of the kindness of their hearts.

Having no shame is part of the job description for any aspiring solicitor / barrister.

What matters is money. Not upholding the law or values or ethics, but money. Money is a natural corrupting factor and barristers (and real estate agents) are the lowest of the low when it comes to transparency and ethics.

Deebles McBeebles

It's not just solicitors. Everyone seems to be intrinsically linked to their local GAA club, so character references are thrown around, and then there was that priest in Kerry who defended the rapist. He wasn't alone there either.

Boggles

Everyone hates solicitors until they need one.

bladespin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121154730#Comment_121154730

That's the thing, lots of judgement flying around but the simple thing is the sole job of the solicitor and barrister is to get the best possible outcome for their client, it's not their role to judge them just to act in their interest, the problem isn't with them it's the system that watches on as an offender escalates in front of everyone and nothing the system does can stop it.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121154694#Comment_121154694

Criminal barristers on legal aid cases are not particularly well paid.

Why exactly people are so insistent on creating counterfactuals to this is puzzling.

StrawbsM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121154730#Comment_121154730

Why would the solicitor I quoted in my opening post give a personal character opinion though? And an opinion that is going to be shown as totally wrong. The probability is they only know the defendant because they were charged with a crime and the legal counsel is acting on their behalf. This wasn’t a solicitor relaying the defendants words.

Defend the client and if found guilty, relay the personal info they’ve given you. But don’t go telling the court that you doubt they’ll be back in a courtroom again! That’s not professional.

Fian

It's as if barristers and solicitors treat every accused person as though they were innocent and entitled to to the best defense possible in the way we would want an innocent person to be defended.

Almost as if an accused person were "presumed innocent until proven guilty".

StrawbsM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121155337#Comment_121155337

What about once they’ve been found guilty?

mikethecop

A lot of barristers are as detached from reality as most judges . they live in a bubble away from the world the rest of us live in .

I accept that they have a job to do but ive also frequently seen them tell outright lies especially in the mitigation phase of a case when they know that they are not going to be contradicted ,ie he comes from a good family when the garda stranding there knows he doesn't . he hasn't drank since his offence, when you saw him fall out of a pub that weekend, accepts responsibility when he denied it it in a video taped interview that the court didnt see.

what would happen if they could only tell the truth like those who take a oath in court

I had at one point considered becoming a solicitor but after years of watching them operate as they do i don't think i could live with myself if i did what they do

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121155244#Comment_121155244

but the simple thing is the sole job of the solicitor and barrister is to get the best possible outcome for their client

And they frequently and deliberately attempt to smear, mislead and lie in the process.

Not all, but most.

Beta Ray Bill

I think the problem is more the legal system as opposed to the Solicitors/Barristers themselves. They're just doing a job for money. There is a framework there for them to operate in and even at that it's easy work. You've a seasoned legal professional going up against a Garda with a few weeks court training. They nearly always win or get their clients a reduced or suspended sentence.

I think mandatory minimum sentencing should be brought in, along with a 3 strike system (For serious convictions), and maybe a 20 strike system for petty crime.

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121155329#Comment_121155329

Why would the solicitor I quoted in my opening post give a personal character opinion though? And an opinion that is going to be shown as totally wrong.

Because he is a solicitor not Mystic Meg.

It's the Judge that decides on sentencing. Mitigation wouldn't be informed by a defence solicitor.

A Probation Report assessed the defendant as being at a low risk of re-offending.

They aren't Mystic Meg either.

elperello

The people who should be blamed for criminal activity are those who engage in it not those who provide representation in the courts.

Anyone charged with a crime is entitled to the presumption of innocence and has the right to mount a defence.

https://fra.europa.eu/en/eu-charter/article/48-presumption-innocence-and-right-defence?page=2

Jequ0n

Why should they feel ashamed? It’s their job to represent their client the best way they can. That doesn’t mean that they support the client’s action.

StrawbsM

Well the best way EVERYONE within the justice system could have represented him would have been to tell the f ucking truth that he was and always would be a bad egg!

Maybe they would have them locked him up for a proper amount of time. Maybe then there wouldn’t be a family in complete distress this weekend

Jim2007

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058315339/do-solicitors-barristers-have-no-shame

So you dig up an old report from 2019, decide that a barrister work in representing their client is expressing their own opinion, map it on to ever barrister and solicitor in the country and get all up set about it….

Do you think that you are not entitled to the best defense possible before the law? Or that individual solicitors and barristers should make moral decisions which would restrict your right to legal redress rather than the judges and jury? Or perhaps you want to decide who gets equal treatment before the law….

StrawbsM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121156985#Comment_121156985

He received a defence and was guilty of a crime. What benefit did a solicitor telling a court that they believe the guilty person wouldn’t darken the door of a courtroom again serve?

Explain that part to me.

Donald Trump

A barrister/solicitor is supposed to assist and advise their client on legal matters, and also advocate for their client within the judicial system. They neither make the laws nor enforce them. It is not their role to decide on guilt or innocence - or a penalty if guilt is found.

A good analogy is a surgeon in an ER setting who has to operate on a person to save their life. That is their job. They are not supposed to make a decision on whether the person deserves help or not.

ArthurDayne

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121154497#Comment_121154497

What I always find funny in these horrendous "attack the legal profession" discussions is that people just blissfully ignore the fact that solicitors and barristers are not the ones who actually control the criminal justice system. They are there to guide their clients to the best outcomes afforded to them by the law — and to the extent that the law allows for outcomes which you might deem to be negative (someone getting a mere slap on the wrist etc), that is because of the system.

The people who control criminal justice are elected representatives in the Oireachtas and ministers / state authorities. Judges will defer to statutory law. Defendants can only use the avenues that the law allows them to take in order to get a better outcome and its up to the actual lawmakers, who I remind you are elected by the Irish people, to change the rules.

And yet, you never seem to hear people actually advocate for bringing in strict statutory law that, for example, bars defendants from referring to their background and prevailing circumstances in court. Let's just blame the lawyers instead..

Allinall

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121156959#Comment_121156959

How do you know this particular chap is always going to be a bad egg?

StrawbsM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121157846#Comment_121157846

How do you know they’re not?