Buying cable, sockets etc up north

enricoh

Lads I have to buy a few grands worth of lights, cable trunking etc is there much of a saving going up north? I usually deal with a crowd beside me in Drogheda but gone dear imo.

I'm not a spark but a friend is n will do over a few winter evenings.

Used get stuff off meteor electrical years ago. Is the difference worthwhile? Ta

Risteard81

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058315829/buying-cable-sockets-etc-up-north

Cable standards aren't the same. There's a good chance it will only be fit for the bin. Seen it so many times.

10-10-20

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121166684#Comment_121166684

I was wondering if you meant that they weren't the same in terms of markings, but I see that they are still selling T&E with the naked CPC until 2024 (BS12721:2024), so yeah.

Risteard81

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121167664#Comment_121167664

Not only that. In the south they also need to be certified as a minimum of Dca, -s2, d2, a2.

horseman34

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121167664#Comment_121167664

I thought the 2024 thing was a april fools joke

Calahonda52

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121168042#Comment_121168042

Has the spec for SWA changed?

Risteard81

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121169522#Comment_121169522

Yes. LSF insulation with LSF bedding and sheath. It literally applies to every cable type.

Risteard81

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121168381#Comment_121168381

It was (and is).

10-10-20

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121168381#Comment_121168381

Fool on me. I never realised after seeing that video initially. 😂

But it does beg the question why the insulated CPC is being applied here if the understood intention was so that if the T&E was severed or cut that the CPC would carry the current as it was easily exposed? Isn't that the oddity with it, and hence it's an April fool laughing at the Irish regs?

kirk.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121171902#Comment_121171902

I can't think of any advantages having a bare CPC

Dunno is there much advantage to insulated CPC , maybe diy work where they don't bother sleeving or testing

The cef page is good gives a brief descriptor on cable types , they list both LSF and PVC cables

https://www.cef.co.uk/catalogue/categories/cables-and-accessories

2011

Well I guess one advantage is that it reduces the overall diameter of the cable. I had the pleasure of pulling in a few cables recently for a new kitchen. It’s been a while for me, the cables were noticeably harder to install. They required larger holes through joists.

A lot of it was just about saving material costs and is probably a throwback to the post WWII period, as are ring circuits.

They made an assumption that the earth connection was only ever going to really be used ensure a rapid short circuit, enough burn out an overcurrent device or fuse, and never actually carry a sustained fault, so the original T&E spec allowed thinner earth cores than the conductors.

The reasons for not insulating the earth core were probably similarly just cost savings for manufacturers.

As standards harmonised, the highest standards tended to become the common denominator. Several European countries wouldn't have accepted cut down earths or unsheathed conductors, so the standards are now higher for wiring accessories here as a result.

There were some aspects of British designs incorporated into CENELEC and IEC standards too. It's not a one way street.

Antenna

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121173852#Comment_121173852

On an RCD protected circuit a 'sustained fault' (to earth) is not going to happen - its going to be disconnected straight away. It could be argued there is much less justification for the larger earth conductor on RCD protected circuits (nearly everything nowadays in newly installed wiring).

Risteard81

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121171902#Comment_121171902

The bare reduced csa cpc is simply to reduce production cost.

kirk.

...

kirk.

I was going to say there was talk about outlawing old T+E back in the day

Not sure what the issues were , sleeving , lack of testing and nails etc( pre-rcd on most circuits)

I assume they still use it in the UK ,their wiring rules seem to be a lot more sensible than ours overall

Edit: old t+e

A lot of it is also down to harmonisation. You can't really just have technical barriers in one EU market, hence the standards have to be the same across the whole market. It's supposed to bring about economies of scale.