Ticketmaster.ie - No pricing or special conditions displayed

Beagslife · 04-10-2023 9:05am #1

Are you fed up of Ticketmaster's 'sharp practice' of not displaying pricing and special conditions in advance of ticket sales going live?

Got caught out recently with an extra Arctic Monkeys ticket. No ability to resell (on Ticketmaster), or transfer ticket.

Contacted chat to check if this would change before the concert dates. Message still displaying 'Your tickets aren't quite ready yet' less than two weeks out.

According to Ticketmaster, no, the promoter has set the terms and conditions, non transferable, lead booker etc.

My issue isn't with the terms and conditions per se, but with the unwillingness of Ticketmaster to publish these details along with a ticket price range in advance of ticket sales going live.

I include my reply to Ticketmaster in their chat (and email - customer.services@ticketmaster.ie) below. Perhaps others could raise similar queries with Ticketmaster!

Hi xxx,

Thanks for your reply.

I would like to know why these details were not clearly stated on your website prior to the sale of the tickets? In fact, as is normal with Ticketmaster, no ticket pricing information of any kind (even offering a price range) was available to the public prior to the ticket sale going live.

This of course seems to be Ticketmaster policy, working on the FOMO principals.

Customers initially feel relieved to be on track to purchase a ticket (while watching the countdown clocks), to make it near impossible to go looking for policies as they relate to the given concert
Fear of leaving the Pay Now page to review such information for fear of being thrown out of the process

It is no wonder that Ticketmaster.ie was this week ranked number 147 (out of 150 companies) in the Ireland CXi (customer experience online) Report 2023. But does that really mater to Ticketmaster/Live Nation while profits continue to surge?

Back to the question at hand, I look forward to hearing why ticket prices and special terms and conditions are not published in advance of any given concert on Ticketmaster.ie. I checked Ticketmaster.ie today for concerts with tickets not yet on general sale and none of the above information is available.

Can you forward screen shots of where the terms and conditions for the Arctic Monkeys ticket sale were displayed in advance of ticket sales?

Please feel free to contact me with your response via email and/or chat.

Kind regards,

Fanirish · 04-10-2023 9:23am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058316669/ticketmaster-ie-no-pricing-or-special-conditions-displayed

Ticket transfer will be open for arctics in the days before the shows usually when the “tickets” appear in your account.

tickets needing lead Booker (never enforced), limited ticket transfer window are all demands from the bands agent which the promoter/ticketmaster just ensure.

ticketmaster have it in their t&c’s that they cannot guarantee that ticket transfer will be enabled or if and when. Cause it’s the bands agent who sets those rules.

as for ticket prices depends on the promoter, live nation/mcd usually only give a from €xx price on mcd website etc and they artists use the platinum/demand pricing nonsense so they can’t even give an accurate price ahead of them for some popular big shows

hkjohn · 05-10-2023 9:48am

From what others on boards.ie have posted, I wasn't alone in finding the speed with which Chris Stapleton

tickets sold out last Friday to be very odd.

While CS is terrific live, he last played here at C2C in March 2019 and he doesn't seem to have

benefitted from that high a profile in the MSM music mags in the intervening four and a half years.

At the end of the day, he's not U2, Springsteen or Taylor Swift.

While the various (3, MCD and artist) pre-sales obviously accounted for a lot of the sales, I've never

seen tickets for a show for an artist of his stature sell out so fast.

Think it's high time, Ticketmaster had to account for exactly how tickets for shows like this are

divvied up.

Jaffa3000 · 05-10-2023 10:54am

It said in the info since they went on sale that they weren’t transferable. I noticed it straight away

Fanirish · 05-10-2023 11:06am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121196358#Comment_121196358

he has massively increased his fan base here in the last few years so one night in 3 arena was always going to fly out.

3 presale gets about 10% of the capacity of the 3 arena which is only about 1400 tickets.

promoter and artist pre sales change throughout the pre sale window.

the band agent May agree with the promoter that set percentage of tickets are for artist presale (10 -15%) initially.

promoter sets their initial allotment for pre sale. Then when they get minute by minute reports from ticketmaster they increase the allotment.

between 3 arena, artist and promoter presales over 90% of tickets can be gone before general sale is even open.

hkjohn · 05-10-2023 1:09pm

Cheers, F

If that was the case, think TM has seriously underestimated demand and should have negotiated for the possibility of extra nights in the various gaps in his schedule

Fanirish · 05-10-2023 1:28pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121197196#Comment_121197196

extra nights nothing to do with TM, that’s MCD role as promoter.

and extra nights is a complicated process, as they are trying to line up availability in all the venues on a tour and factor in rest day on tour for singer and crew.

other considerations like recording or tv show commitments that week.

Fanirish · 05-10-2023 1:38pm

Other point with a show selling out instantly and promoter scrambling for second show is that it’s risky.

promoters only make any money if a show is close to a sell out.

if mcd add a second show and it does say 10,000 out of 14,000 then they lose money over the 2 nights.

so promoter has to be certain that second night in any venue is a sell out or they lose profits from night 1

Zardoz · 05-10-2023 3:58pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121196621#Comment_121196621

between 3 arena, artist and promoter presales over 90% of tickets can be gone before general sale is even open.

You have changed your tune havent you.

Not long ago you were adamant that only a small percentage of tickets were sold in presales and the bulk was reserved for general sale.

There were no standard price tickets left for the general sale, multiple people tweeted that they were straight through the queue at 10 and they were only offered platinum tickets.

I notice that Ticketmaster have slyly increased their fees.

Ticketmaster's Service Charge is 12.5% of the ticket cost with a minimum of €1.65 (Republic Of Ireland) or £1.00 (Northern Ireland) up to a maximum of €11 (Republic Of Ireland excl. Packages) or £10 (Northern Ireland excl. packages) including VAT.

Fanirish · 05-10-2023 4:05pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121198155#Comment_121198155

its changed considerably in the last 18 months and any regular on here would see for themselves with limited tickets being available on general sales now for 3 arena, olympia, vicar st and some of the big outdoor shows this summer.

pre covid artist and promoter presales were capped at anywhere between 10-15 % each.

now agents/promoters don’t care as a sale is a sale and if 90% are gone in presales that’s great for them.

Zardoz · 05-10-2023 4:26pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121198181#Comment_121198181

Thats not entirely true, precovid they often sold up to 90% of the inventory too.

Going back to the op's post, why are Ticketmaster Ireland and Uk the only one in the world that do not state a delivery date up front or state that transfer will be disabled ?

For example Olivia Rodrigo

Barcelona Info on main booking page:

Delayed Generation

Tickets will not be available in your Ticketmaster account until 14 days before the event.

Not stating a delivery date upfront is arguably illegal in the UK and not stating that transfer is disabled upfront is definitely illegal.

Under consumer legislation, failing to disclose material information that would affect the transactional decision of the average consumer is classed as a misleading action and therefore an offence.

Fanirish · 05-10-2023 5:00pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121198275#Comment_121198275

They never did, pre covid pre sales were never either as prevalent nor was quantity sold through them anywhere in same league.

ticketmaster ireland and uk both state that you will receive your ticket at latest 72 hours before show which is a delivery date.

transfer has never been fully disabled for any shows in ireland. They have only allowed short windows for a few high profile shows, Bruce, hozier in academy etc and ticketmaster state that they cannot guarantee transfer as it’s discretion of the artist/promoter.

so no illegality by an interpretation of UK law.

onefish · 05-10-2023 6:40pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121196581#Comment_121196581

Does that mean you can't even sell the ticket back to TM for the same price you paid for it?

As in, I bought two, now only need one.

Fanirish · 05-10-2023 6:51pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121198815#Comment_121198815

looks it’s no resale and no ticket transfer for that show. So yeah you can’t sell it back to TM. You can obviously Sell it to someone on the street and walk in with them but that’s about it

Zardoz · 06-10-2023 3:18am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121198850#Comment_121198850

Which is definitely illegal under UK law, the option to have either resale or transfer or a refund must be available as per CMA guidelines.

https://www.star.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/STAR-Resale-TsandCs-June-2019.pdf

The CMA says that ‘resale restrictions have the potential to cause consumer harm if they prevent consumers from recouping or substantially reducing their losses if they find they can no longer attend an event’. Event organisers should therefore provide refunds to customers or offer alternative ways to help them avoid financial detriment. While the CMA’s view is that ‘the most effective way to do this is to provide a full refund…the CMA might also consider other alternatives to be acceptable if (i) a consumer would prefer the alternative offered to a refund or (ii) if those alternatives are likely to be effective in allowing consumers to be able to get their money back / or mitigate their losses. These might include: • Offering to exchange tickets for another date; • Providing a consumer with a credit note that can be used in future for another similar event; • Providing a consumer with a method whereby they can resell a ticket.’ If providing a resale method, ‘this must comply with consumer law and must be likely to be effective in allowing a consumer to get their money back on the ticket or substantially reducing their losses’. ‘If an event organiser is concerned about the cost they might incur in helping customers mitigate their potential losses then the CMA considers the most effective way to avoid this is by selling tickets without resale restrictions.

Ticketmaster are making up their own rules though. the sooner the US breaks that vile company up the better.

Zardoz · 06-10-2023 3:21am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121198398#Comment_121198398

They did sell alot of events out in presale before Covid, so don't make false statements.

Only in July you were saying that only 20-30 per cent of Taylor Swifts tickets would be available in the presales and you said the third date would struggle.

hkjohn · 07-10-2023 8:36am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121196621#Comment_121196621

Aside from his gig selling out, would love to know how you reach the conclusion that CS has massively increased his fan base in the four years since he headlined C2C given that he has released very little since then, had hardly any coverage in music mags like Hot Press (or Mojo or Uncut). I am also a regular contributor to 3 music boards where CS has hardly ever got mentioned

Fanirish · 07-10-2023 10:49am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121204250#Comment_121204250

He had released two new albums since 2019, collaborated with Taylor Swift and Adele in the last few years. His streaming numbers etc are in the millions.

None of those music magazines are reflective of popularity and especially when it comes to country. Mojo and uncut are classic rock nostalgia magazines.

online music forums like this one are not indicative of popularity. If they were then we would have tens of thousands of posts about Doja cat etc

Beagslife · 07-10-2023 2:50pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121196581#Comment_121196581

Thanks Jaffa,

But back to my original point, I haven't seen the information above displayed in advance of the ticket sales opening. Likewise the price range for tickets. And I get that with reactive pricing that is difficult. But surely the lowest price for each category ~~could~~ should be displayed, even if the chance of getting a ticket at that price is minimal.

Yes, once the sale is live and you are in the throes of trying to secure scarce tickets, the price and conditions are shown (if you look). These conditions and the price range should be displayed sooner. Even displaying the details during your time in the waiting room or queue (for bigger scale events) would be an improvement and might discourage some from going ahead with the process.

MCD giving information was mentioned. That's great but MCD aren't the ones we are contracting with. I shouldn't have to go searching for that information from a 3rd party.

As regards the transfer and selling policy per gig, I get that that's a function of the promoter/artist. In the Arctic Monkey's example, I'm sure Ticketmaster would love to be able to resell tickets, but as the Tuesday gig has tickets left for sale, I guess that won't happen.

Lesson learned for me on reselling/transfer, but the no pricing indicator in advance is plain wrong!

A random example below for an upcoming gig! At lease we know the price will be in € 😎

🎸🎙

Jaffa3000 · 07-10-2023 3:06pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121205503#Comment_121205503

MCD usually announce the minimum price for tickets, but they don’t for all gigs (I think that’s what you were saying). I think they should have to reveal all prices before the sale, but they obviously won’t want that because people will be more levelheaded about it then

Beagslife · 07-10-2023 3:18pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121205559#Comment_121205559

Exactly regarding some of the motivations for withholding, even a price range.

But leaving MCD aside, the vast majority of punters booking tickets go straight to Ticketmaster. It is Ticketmaster's responsibility (IMHO) to be more transparent with their ticket pricing range in advance of tickets going on sale.

hkjohn · 07-10-2023 6:32pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121204611#Comment_121204611

He's actually only released one album since C2C with a second not coming out until next month.

Sorry, but cannot see armies of Taylor S and Adele fans rushing out to buy CS tickets on the basis of his collaborations with their fave artists

While Mojo may be a classic rock mag, Uncut - like the music boards I frequent - is very much into Americana and would be the sort of

place where you might expect to see CS written up.

Interestingly, Wilco who have just toured on the back of a country album (which got some of the best reviews of their career) are widely regarded as being one of the best live bands out there. When they came here in Sept, they played at the 1,600 capacity Olympia 3. Despite their being a pre-sale, I and many other people - lots of whom had seen the band on their several previous visits - had no problems getting tickets.

While I suggest we agree to disagree at this point, I still think there is something very fishy about the way TM sold tickets for this gig. The only way to resolve this would be for them to be more transparent about ticket allocations. Sadly, TM seem to think they are a law unto themselves

Fanirish · 07-10-2023 6:37pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121206441#Comment_121206441

Even a very brief look at Spotify numbers shows that CS has 20m monthly listeners to 2m for Wilco.

so Wilco who sold out olympia, cork which is about 3000 tickets versus CS selling 14,000 in no time tracks roughly with listener numbers.

ireland is very much a country music country, sure look at the 400,000 going to Garth, country to country weekender doing good business.

Zardoz · 07-10-2023 7:58pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121206468#Comment_121206468

Firstly Spotify numbers don't really translate with ticket sales, secondly Chris Stapleton didnt sell 14000 tickets.

Its the small standing area layout, seats from row 5 as opposed to row 21.

Not entirely sure the capacity for that, probably 10500 perhaps, either way the promoter left money on the table, should have gone for the full capacity layout.

Seems to be a big boom in country music in Ireland and the UK, Stapleton's UK dates were all sold similar to the Dublin date, almost everything was sold in presale.

Demand for Luke Combs also seems to be off the wall, people have lost their minds I think, event junkies gone wild.