Deposit return scheme (recycling)

Sarn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121695962#Comment_121695962

Clearly Dunnes thinks that people need to know given that it is a new scheme that never applied to their purchases before.

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121695962#Comment_121695962

You think there's nobody out there who might think that the extra cost they are paying might count towards their spend given it is part of the price and cost? I think it highly likely there will be a non trivial amount of people out there who might think that, or just be confused about the whole scheme.

There was no implication in my post that operationally it should be treated that way, only that through unfamiliarity and confusion, people may have that misunderstanding.

And you'll have to ask Dunnes why they might think that also. They have stressed it very prominently in their communication about Return coming in.

Please note, your Re-Turn deposit cannot be used to reach the spend threshold of our €10 off €50 and €5 off €25 vouchers.

https://www.dunnesstoresgrocery.com/sm/delivery/rsid/258/drs

TokTik

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121695962#Comment_121695962

Why did Dunnes send out that text today if people aren’t that stupid? You’d have to contact their head office and ask them.

jj880

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121695939#Comment_121695939

😆. What are you talking about? This didnt happen.

Stating the rules in Dunnes for this scheme is not the same as saying they should or should not be the rules. Wow Ive met some loopers on here. You are something else. Your username should be Walter Mitty.

BoardsBottler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121695315#Comment_121695315

i understand your frustrations with this and have expressed quite a few myself on another thread. But answering your question: basically when the machine does'nt accept your dented tin, it spits it back out, and there might be a bin next to the machine for putting rejected recycleables into. They have a cheek still putting their hand out and still wanting the tin despite machine rejecting it.

i'm gonna keep any cans the machine does not accept belong to me, and would advice others to do the same. The reason: scrap yards currently offer €1 for every 56-70 cans = 1kg. 1 ton = €1000 per ton, the current recycling rate for aluminum.

https://scrapyard.ie/scrap-metal-prices/

Ray Palmer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121696014#Comment_121696014

why did he need to say it other than implying people would have thought it counted to a sale? Do you know what "imply" means? I have met many stupid people but language means something . See I am not saying someone is stupid but implying as an example

BoardsBottler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121696071#Comment_121696071

we did'nt see "reach" before in the text, thats why. easy mistake to make

Ray Palmer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121695990#Comment_121695990

Yeah for stupid people

Atlantic Dawn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121695534#Comment_121695534

Jaysus, I will need an accountant with me to figure out the deductions impact on what's in the trolley.

BoardsBottler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121696345#Comment_121696345

because they're money grabbers thats why. Thats the answer to both questions.

Basically what happened was, well let me use a scenerio to describe it easier and then point out how it applies here to this scheme.

Lets pretend in 2022 around august or july a new family moved into a neighborhood and started to target local buisnuess, shaking them down for protection money/extortion/taxing the shops. These shops all told the kid tryna shake them down "on'yer bike, we're giving you nothing, and we're not joining any scheme of yours and we don't need to pay you anything to sell here, we been selling here since before you were born, now beat it kid" . Now imagine this same kid went around after christmas time, january. jan 1st he promised his family he would get others on board paying him. Jan 1st comes and this is a major flop. Now imagine the kid comes back again and this time makes the shops all an offer they can't refuse, and he has his family/brothers backing him, and all the local cops on his side too! essentially he tells the shops again, and the shops now believe they must either join and pay the fee's the kid is demanding and put the kids family name/logo on the side of their products, or else if they refuse to pay this family and put the kids family name/logo on their products then the law refuses to allow the shop to sell anything in this area.

so this time the kid had a year with some back up, feb 1st is his new promise date, and all the businuesses caved in.

THAT is what happened here in a nutshell. the family/older brothers and law backing the kid up, was the irish laws that got passed in to mandate having these RVM's and machines.

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121696345#Comment_121696345

Because the system has not yet begun to operate it is not clear exactly how perfect the cans will have to be.

Presumably the countries you mention have integrated their refund systems.

We have a border with Northern Ireland which doesn't have a refund system yet.

In border areas many people from Ireland shop in Northern Ireland.

Our refund system needs to differentiate between cans that have had a deposit paid and those that have not.

JVince

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121689930#Comment_121689930

Virtually everyone has the ability to bring their empty bottles with them when they are next shopping.

Some may not be up to such a simple task - but if not, they have bigger issues to deal with.

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121696447#Comment_121696447

That's interesting, do cans from Poland get a refund of the pfand which has not been paid on them from RVMs in Germany ?

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121696565#Comment_121696565

The countries that have deposits at least have collected something on the sale of the cans.

However seems very generous for Germany to be paying out on cans that have never had a deposit paid in any country.

We are not so generous it would seem and that is the reason for the logo.

Why would we pay out for cans that never had a deposit paid on them ?

BoardsBottler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121696608#Comment_121696608

"Why would we pay out for cans that never had a deposit paid on them ?" for the good of the earth (calling them out and calling their bluff on their recycle virtue signalling crap) and to win the race reach the target goal faster, and to give people an actual reward based incentive instad of a mean greedy stingy punishment based one.

Now we know why germany have such a high recycle rate of 93.5%, easy! just bring in cans from elsewhere or across the boarder and thats problem solved lol.

ireland could learn a thing or 2 from germany when it comes to recycling and deposits, instead of being greedy and footing the bill onto consumers

stezie

"that feature the Re-Turn logo"

ok, so give me the cola in the bottle without that logo? Im presuming there will be a choice not to buy these containers?

stezie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121696015#Comment_121696015

Exactly!! so why have a machine to process plastic containers in the first place? when we you can just dump your containers into a side bin for recycling anyways?

there is civic amenity sites all around the county, and all they had to do was add another drop off bin for plastics, beside the cans and bottle bins..

BoardsBottler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121696836#Comment_121696836

i really like that idea, and i have access to hundreads of unusued clean unfit for purpose cans in my line of work, but the problem i think is that there is a metal reflector in the machine that reads the logo and reflects light off of it. Your idea might work with the bottles but not for cans unfortunately :(

still though i admire your creativity <3

SteM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121696842#Comment_121696842

Nope. Not after the cutoff date.

BoardsBottler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121696842#Comment_121696842

there may be a choice in the upcoming few weeks, but once they're gone they're gone. Also you might have to go and take the ones without the logo from the shelf, not sure if you can be like "gimmie a non logo can"

BoardsBottler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121696862#Comment_121696862

"so why have a machine to process plastic containers in the first place? when we you can just dump your containers into a side bin for recycling anyways?"

well to bluntly put it: its because they are lazy, selfish, and greedy, and want consumers doing all the work. And also because they do not wish to count or separate the containers. The machine does both of these things. They don't even want the bother of cleaning the bottles either, and intend to sell it rather than actually recycle it, as admitted in a news article on the independent or the times. They called it another source of money, and then went on to talk about some crazy idea about buying a power plant to process recycleables so they cut out the middle man and make even more money from OUR recycleables.

The whole thing is a disgrace and only allows a consumer to break even at best, aka no profit unless you return someone elses cans.

They basically want the quick easy fast cash grab recycleables only, and want it being given to them on a silver plate via the RVM instead of it going to the bin men/other recycling bins. They want it for themselves

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121696842#Comment_121696842

Containers without a deposit can be sold up to the end of the four month transition period ie. June 1st.

After that they can't be sold.

beggars_bush

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121696862#Comment_121696862

Most people don't use these places and just through recycling into a blue bin, or in many many cases into the rubbish bin or along the road

stezie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121697225#Comment_121697225

Alot of people take glass and cans to the bottle banks. another bank for plastics wouldn't of been too much to ask for.

stezie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121696908#Comment_121696908

who instructed the shops to comply with this and buy all these machines, and give up retail floor space? I'm baffled why they didn't say no.. Seems like we got backed into a corner on this one.

Plastic bag levy

Sugar Levy

nasty paper straws, (yet the paper cup lid is still plastic).

This is just another levy/tax that has just been sneaked in really.

Genghis

For Large Shops it's a no-brainer.

1. Retailers get 2.2c commission per item collected.

2. 2.2c is often much more than they would make on the sale of the item that is being returned, in an industry with cutthroat margins, it represents a "double dip" for them in profit terms.

3. Each location on average will process 1m items per year, so large locations will make 22k and more per annum. Some will have their capital returned to them before end of 2024.

4. Each 1m items collected prints vouchers to be used in that store worth €200k. That €200k comes from scheme funds, unlike say money off vouchers paid for from a marketing budget.

5. Most customers will use the voucher there and then to buy something, typically spending more than it's value, it's additional footfall, it's additional sales.

6. The machines typically go in dead space, e.g. car park, lobbies or malls, so no loss of retail real estate. Supermarkets usually have plenty such space.

7. Hey, who doesn't want to look like they are saving the planet? It's a good look, very on-trend. No doubt you can offset some carbon footprint too.

Small retail, on the other hand will struggle to buy the machine to begin with, they will get lower volumes and so have a payback of 5-7 years. They lose more space in % terms (smaller footprint stores), possibly reducing real estate. Many are choosing to be exempt for these reason but then have to worry if this just means customers moving more of their custom to larger stores when they go recycle.

Genghis

Interesting, but I wouldn't be sure that this applies here. The voucher from an RVM is more like a credit note, fully redeemable for cash even without a sale.

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121698486#Comment_121698486

I doubt cash only shops will be participating in the scheme, they tend to be small size operations which presumably will be exempt. You will have to pay the deposit buying items in the shop, but they do not take returns so don't give deposit refunds either.

mcgragger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121698528#Comment_121698528

What will the life changing inconvenience be? Where do these people buy weekly grocery ?

More hysteria.

Gregor Samsa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121698368#Comment_121698368

The Public Health (Alcohol) Act 2019 prohibits selling alcohol at a reduced price via loyalty schemes under Part 2, Section 23.6

(6) For the purposes of this section, the sale or supply of alcohol products at a reduced price or free of charge includes—

(a) the award, whether directly or indirectly, of bonus points, loyalty card points, or any similar benefit, to any person arising from the purchase by that person, or by any other person, of any alcohol product,

(b) permitting the use of any such points or benefit, whether directly or indirectly, to obtain alcohol products, or any other product or service, at a reduced price or free of charge, and

(c) permitting the use, whether directly or indirectly, of bonus points, loyalty card points, or any similar benefit, arising from the purchase of any product or service to obtain alcohol products at a reduced price or free of charge.

Nothing here applies to the Deposit Return Scheme. The deposit, and subsequently the refund, are both clearly on the container. The refund does not reduce the cost of the alcohol product. The whole idea of a deposit scheme is that it's cost neutral to the customer.