Deposit return scheme (recycling)

Sleepy

Personally I'm finding the most annoying part of the scheme the need to have separate storage for the Re-turn cans and bottles in the house. It feels like the drinks companies are using the deposit as a chance to hike prices too, have noticed the large bottles of Diet Coke seem to be far more expensive than they were a year or two ago…

tjhook

When I consider picking up cans in a store, the thought of the hassle puts me off. So I'm buying less. Sounds like that's good for the environment. Except that I'm also putting far more cans in the general bin outside the store now, when they're rejected or the machines are unavailable. Previously they'd have gone in the green bin at home.

If this is common, it's the only way the scheme might be rolled back. Except it won't. At this point it's just dogma. The only way it will ever be rolled back is if the commercial interests decide it's not working for them. The scheme will be altered to allay their concerns, probably at the expense of the public. There's no green issue that can't be solved with another tax.

JayRoc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122111207#Comment_122111207

750ml bottle of Pepsi Max used to cost 1.35 to 1.40 depending on the shop, a couple of years ago. My local supervalu now has the same bottle priced at 2.80 (not sure if that includes the deposit).

There is no question soft drinks companies raised their prices significantly at the same time deposits were introduced.

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122111103#Comment_122111103

3. The Scam doesn't want manual sorting.

Imagine the hassle and cost of having to travel to every retailer in the country to pick up bags of rubbish? They would probably need to double or even treble their fleet.

The small retailers asked for hand held scanners in order to process bottles and cans manually, they were told no.

You really need to get over the narrative that this is a noble scheme setup to benefit the environment.

It isn't. It's Green Theatre that will only benefit the larger retailers and producers whilst fleecing the consumers. i.e. everyone of us.

LambshankRedemption

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122111448#Comment_122111448

From a process point of view, manual returns really dont work. If the person at the customer care desk scans the bottle, and generates a voucher for you, what does the person do with the bottle then? They'd need a manual crusher of some kind to take it out of circulation. If there is no green bin on the premises, they'd have to just put it into a regular bin. Or store it on premises somewhere/somehow and remember to give it to the ReTurn truck when it arrives.

As with lots of other aspects of this scheme, it was not thought out.

TheChizler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122111568#Comment_122111568

The exact same problem applies to every house in the country but that didn't stop them foisting it upon us

dxhound2005

A person I know had to get stents put in recently. I spoke to him today, and asked what sort of exercise he was doing. When he said walking, I humorously said to take a bag and make some money from picking up empties. He said the family have not used a machine yet, and have a large quantity in the house for future processing. There will be many instances like this. It's up to 74 million returns at this stage. And given the reports of machines being full, it must be working well in some places.

"The scheme began in February and more than 74 million bottles and cans have been returned to shops and the 2,300 machines." (Extra.ie 07 May).

jj880

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122111448#Comment_122111448

You have some nose for BS. You remind me of Marc Baum from the movie The Big Short.

Re-Turn is shambolic unless major changes are made. We really cant be trusted to do anything properly / fairly. Theres always a cute hoor gombeen angle in this country.

LambshankRedemption

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122111579#Comment_122111579

For every house in the country, they again didn't think it through. There are lots of aspects they didn't think about.

BobMc

why cant we have a solution like Canada

https://sarcan.ca/how-to-sarcan/ways-to-visit/#classic

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122111568#Comment_122111568

And yet other countries have manual returns, and much more retailers are obliged to participate in the scheme (they don't have our massive size exemption). It is a solvable problem. If you want to solve it.

LambshankRedemption

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122111714#Comment_122111714

The whole fecking thing is solvable if you just get the people operating the scheme to think it through. It becomes clearer and clearer every day that they thought buying the RVM machines was the silver bullet, but put no thought into how the scheme would operate. Like me buying a car to drive to Dublin and then going "Oh feck i forgot I need to also have lessons and a license before I can actually go". They probably thought along with the machines they were going to get a How-To manual on How to set up a DRS scheme in Your Country.

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122111746#Comment_122111746

Totally!

But when you setup an unaccountable quasi-quango, they don't have to think it through. Not their problem anymore.

Sconsey

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122111795#Comment_122111795

Not only that, they can declare public support of the scheme.. based off what? They force people to participate in something, and then declare that people support it by virtue of the fact that they are participating.

It doesn't work like that, I would like to see the media call out the Return management on their bull5hit.

Archeron

I registered a complaint with return about a month into the scam as the Aldi machines were out of action three times in a row. After a few weeks, they replied to say they would definitely look into it, but also asking if I'd taken the time to go into aldi, queue up, and ask what the service schedule for the machines was so i could go back when they were working.

Call me demanding for hoping that the machines would just work, and i wouldn't have to discuss service schedules after queuing in a shop that i don't use.

I think convenient for all is a misspell and it should actually say convenient for Aldi. It seems i should just go back when it suits them to have them working. And then lock me into spending my own money in a shop i dont use.

I've (where possible) just stopped buying products with greenbeanery tax applied and for anything i have to buy, into the green bin. It is not worth the time or effort. I notice in two local shops that there's a lot more ribena and capri sun space on the shelves, so i hope others are doing likewise. Perhaps if manufacturers see a significant drop in sales, it might go some way to help scrap this farce.

Remember, return dont provide the machines, service the machines, or have any idea of availability of the machines.

Return also dont collect the materials, transport the materials, or recycle the materials. Return dont provide the trucks, or service or maintain the trucks.

Return dont even have an accurate map of return locations and made a complete balls of the launch. Return expect local councils to provide the soda police after june, and expect the people to go around picking litter since the councils have washed their hands of it entirely, in addition to having actively removed litter bins.

The only thing return seem to do is sit there sucking money from our pockets and having no responsibility or accountability to anybody.

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122111855#Comment_122111855

Ah no, the surveys they did are pretty infallible to be fair.

Q. Do you want a cleaner environment?

A. Yes

127% of Irish people support Re-Turn.

Atlantic Dawn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122110644#Comment_122110644

That was when logged in through the Tesco App using a Newry postcode, it's still showing and valid until 21st May. Not sure if logged in to website would it also show it.

kippy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122107381#Comment_122107381

This is not the first time that I've seen this logic applied to the concerns of small suppliers.

I really don't get the relevance of pointing out whats ahead of them, versus what they have to deal with now.

dxhound2005

Re-Turn give good information for retailers. As retailers get their money by providing a service, it will always be in their interest to make it a good service. No doubt the complaints they got, prompted them to issue this:

https://re-turn.ie/rvm-maintenance-troubleshooting-tips/

April 28, 2024

Further to our Retailer webinar on 28 March, Re-turn are please to share RVM maintenance, and troubleshooting tips for retailers with RVMs.

Regular maintenance of your RVM must be a priority to ensure it remains operational and available to consumers at all times. Maintenance protects your investment and the associated income it generates.

A fully functional RVM will ensure customer retention while having an RVM that is not working at optimum levels may result in loss of customers revenue.

kippy

So you are saying that the scheme hasn't worked well in other EU countries?

How long before it can be deemed a failure versus retaining the status quo, then enhancing the status quo?

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122111448#Comment_122111448

All very interesting but it doesn't get us much further along with how to get manual returns working when the RVM is out of order.

kippy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122111604#Comment_122111604

I really don't see where these empties are outside of in regular public bins in workplaces, educational institutions and on the street. There's a simpler way of making sure these get collected and it isn't relying on people who have had serious operations to collect them………

There are the odd few discarded in various places but you'd need to cover some mileage to get them!

How can the scheme be "working well" if machines are full or broken and we are told that there's a massive amount of items due to come back to be returned in the coming weeks?

kippy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122112131#Comment_122112131

Pushing the issues back to the shops/consumers - lovely.

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122112166#Comment_122112166

Ahhh. They don't want manual returns, neither re-turn nor the smaller retailers for reasons already outlined.

You still seem to be in the mindset that this scheme is for our benefit or designed for us to recoup all our deposits.

It isn't.

dxhound2005

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122112177#Comment_122112177

I realised I had worded that badly, and could have done an edit but left it. Well done for picking up on it. What I meant was with 74 million returns, and reports of some machines being full, it demonstrates that the scheme is not being regarded as a scam. Of that 74 million, only a few thousand by my estimation belonged to people on this thread. And they have decided to use the existing alternatives for a few thousand more. That does not represent the rest of the 70 odd million.

spaceHopper

@Archeron

My daughter has taken to going to Lidl with her friends and taking the empties, she get the voucher and ask for cash at the till, she might have only tried once but they gave it to her!

Citizens information says you can get the cash back at the till.

How do I collect my deposit?

If you are using a Reverse Vending Machine, you will be given a voucher for the value of the deposit on the number of containers you returned. You can choose to use your voucher to buy something in that specific shop or to refund your voucher for cash.

If you returned your items using an RVM, you can only use or refund your voucher in that same shop where you returned the bottles. You cannot reclaim your voucher in a store if you used a RVM from a different store.

jj880

Meanwhile in NI.

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122112197#Comment_122112197

Let's park your incorrect interpretation of my mindset for now.

The question is, no prize for answers 🙂

"How would you practically introduce mandatory manual returns when RVMs are not working ?"

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122112245#Comment_122112245

"How would you practically introduce mandatory manual returns when RVMs are not working ?"

You would need to change the legislation.

Then you would need to enforce that legislation.

Neither are going happen.

The first review of this scam is 3 years away.

The only tangible change will be a rise in deposits.

It is exactly what is happening in Holland.

Let's park your incorrect interpretation of my mindset for now.

Your mindset and opinions on this scam are frequent and clear.

I'll interpret them fairly and accurately.

You don't get a veto on a reply. It's a discussion forum, there is a clue in the name.

dxhound2005

Tesco give cash refunds as well. On my way in yesterday there was a 15c empty literally a yard away from a dustbin, and a short distance from the Tesco entrance. I picked it up, and got the 15c inside along with other bottles I had in my bag. Maybe there are cleaners who clean up the car park. But Tesco put bins there making the ordinary shoppers do most of the work for them.