Global warming

Shoog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122265642#Comment_122265642

As you said, I am not interested in discussing your political prejudices here.

yagan

The greens can't deflect from their own hypocrisies though.

Think global, act local but blocking the N20 only tells us that the cork-limerick corridor isn't in their consciousness.

And citing SF isn't really a defence considering a good few green TDs a nly got their seats thanks to SF transfers.

After propping up the rent roll government again those transfers won't happen again.

EmmetSpiceland

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122260598#Comment_122260598

You could add “but without them we will not resolve global warming”.

theValheru853

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122268766#Comment_122268766

I dont believe so. In the grand scheme of things, the Green Party are a pretty recent formation and people were taking action before the Greens had even formed

Most of us learned about the likes of recycling from our parents...I certanly did from my Dad, a man born in 1933. Also, as pointed out by another poster, things like leadless petrol, smokeless fuel and nightsaver electricity were introduced when the Green Party were not in power, and those that bought the first Hybrids like the Gen 2 Prius bought them without incentive.

All the Green Party has done of late is turn people against the Green movement. The current claim that the green movement is now leaderless after the elections because of the poor results of the various Green Parties across Europe, such as that made in the Journal yesterday, are unfounded. I believe that even without the Green Party, people will do the right thing.

zerosquared

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122268766#Comment_122268766

With them we definitely will not as all they have done is antagonise people against the topic

tom1ie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122268766#Comment_122268766

You think humans can stop global warming?

Igotadose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122270376#Comment_122270376

Actually, it's the deniers and the fossil fuel industry that stir the antagonism and keyboard warriors jump on the bandwagon.

zerosquared

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122270414#Comment_122270414

The anti science and engineering stance is one of the many hypocrisies that Green movements stink of

Yes there are cranks, but the greens went too far now in this bizarre cult like behaviour which only pushes more people away and we can see that in them being destroyed politically

Whether it’s nuclear or datacenters or now even electric cars are not good enough

Igotadose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122270455#Comment_122270455

Back in the day, the Greens were pro-zero population growth (the era of Toffler and "The Population Bomb"). That died out as industry couldn't tolerate the policy, and Greens are now just as pro-growth as the most right-wingitty forced birthers. Their policies are, as I've said, just rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic.

yagan

At best the Greens are a harmless tidy towns movement, but in power they have shown themselves to be more dangerous than any mainstream party because they are idealistic. They don't do compromise.

zerosquared

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122270478#Comment_122270478

I don’t think so

The strangulation of datacenters is a clear anti growth policy all while claiming more and more of our electricity is “green”

The blocking of infrastructure like Galway bypass is clear anti growth policy made more bizarre when their other policy is electric cars by 2035 (no chance bypass built by theme)

The greens and environmentalists are wrong on many levels and instead of helping environmental issues are hurting them now

theValheru853

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122270482#Comment_122270482

While I agree with you in what you say, I think you need to differentiate between the green movement and the Green Party. Most people on my opinion are "green" minded, and do their bit. It's the Green Party are the dangerous ones. They are the ones turning people away from doing the right thing, and the main tool they are using at the moment is the fear that the other 2 coalition have that if they refuse the Green Party anything, that the Green Party will pull out, forcing an election and leaving SF in.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122265567#Comment_122265567

You are confusing personal experience with macro effects.

This is not a novel idea, building more roads increases traffic. What will likely happen is simply a congested ring road and a congested inner city road.

There are limits and exceptions to this, as with all theories. But the studies done on the ring road suggested an increase in emissions (not around the ring road, in total). You can make arguments that it is worth it for economic reasons etc, but your point that it is nonsensical from a green angle is simply fundamentally flawed.

zerosquared

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122270565#Comment_122270565

so what, if people want to sit in their non polluting electric cars on this new road instead of taking next to non existent public transport in Galway that’s their choice

I noticed how you shifted goalposts from “oh bypass will lead to emissions” to “bypass will lead to congestion” which is hilarious for anyone from this congested city spending hours sitting in traffic

What’s worse is some of these people could have worked from home, but no the mentalists have a bee in bonnet for datacenters too now despite telling us most our electricity is already green

yagan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122270538#Comment_122270538

Most parties have sustainability policies so the Greens niche so seems centre on total doom and gloom. I remember being told by Irish green party faithful in the 80s that Ireland would be a desert by 2000 if we don't change our ways etc…

It's basically a dooms day cult, "the end is nigh" etc.. Some people join their ranks just to judge everyone else.

On the coalition issue I reckon both FF and FG don't care about the Greens as they expect Independent Ireland to win enough seats to replace them. A lot of II candidates are already FF and FG defectors so it would it would be an easier accommodation for them as coalition partners than the last five years with the Screams.

yagan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122270565#Comment_122270565

I doubt the people of macroom would support the idea that being bypassed is no improvement.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122270841#Comment_122270841

There are limits and exceptions to this

Literally said this.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122270587#Comment_122270587

I have shifted nothing. The counterargument here has always been congestion is worse for emissions and therefore blocking new roads is stupid on a core level for the Greens.

A) they aren't uniquely blocking this

B) building new roads very frequently leads to more emissions

You want to argue for it anyway, then fine. I remain agnostic on the Galway bypass in general. What I take umbrage at is those who suggest it is silly from a green perspective to oppose it when their argument essentially boils down to "my mpg is better when I'm not in traffic so this is good".

yagan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122270867#Comment_122270867

Trucks crawling through macroom were definitely causing more emissions than the new bypass option.

Anyone arguing otherwise is bonkers.

Edit to add the most harmful emissions on the N20 is the nonsense the Greens spew.

Shoog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122270455#Comment_122270455

Claiming that nuclear can solve Ireland's emissions obligations is the anti science stance here. Not only would it come to late it would also cost to much.

Also encouraging data centres to come to the country would mean we would nearly double our energy demands ensuring we would have zero chance of meeting our emissions targets. Data centres need to be located in locations which already have an excess of energy.

Fetishizing these two technologies shows what ideology you are pushing and it has nothing to do with preserving the environment.

theValheru853

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122270565#Comment_122270565

While I agree my observations are based on personal experience, what other experiences do any of us have?

As to bypasses leading to both congested roads and cities/towns, I have to disagree with you there and once again I offer the city of Limerick as proof. It is bypassed by the tunnel, and despite the toll most of the traffic that does not need to pass through city does not do so. Before the opening of the tunnel, every bit of traffic had to pass through the city, regardless of the queues and the times and the amount of fuel burned while waiting to move a few yards. Since the opening of the tunnel, totally different city. The majority of traffic in the city is there because it has business there and the only times you do see congestion is when the people who work there are actually travelling to and from work and even then it is nowhere as bad as to days before the tunnel.

I see the same with Ennis. Before the motorway and the road upgrades around the town pretty much bypassed it, the town was literally a no go area, even worse than Limerick. But again, as with Limerick, once bypassed, the only traffic in the town is what needs to be there, and if anything, the town has prospered from it.

As to emissions, sorry but I don't see an increase in emissions can come from, in fact the level of traffic on the bypasses is same amount if anything and all the better for not being stuck idling in a city or town wasting fuel to move a few yards. If I was to be traveling from Cork to Galway pre bypass days I was looking at an approximately 5 hour trip and have to travel through Mallow, Buttevant, Charleville, Croom, Limerick, Ennis, Crusheen, Oranmore, not counting the few villages and built up areas along the route, and each one of them a bottleneck stuck for hours in traffic with the engine idling. These days, to do the same trip, I need only go through Buttevant, Charleville, do the outskirts of Mallow and bypass the rest and do it in roughly two and a half hours. You can guess which one give the better MPG which as I have said before give you less emissions.

The traffic in the bypassed towns and roads are making those trips in shorter time because they are no longer stuck idling for long periods of time behind the traffic that is only passing through, making those trips faster and more efficient.

The traffic on the bypass roads, ring roads, and motorways is making the trips in shorter time, as they are not stuck idling behind the local traffic in the towns and cities for long periods of time, making those trips faster and more efficient.

This in turn allows each trip to be done as close to optimal for the vehicle engine, and the closer an engine can get to that point, the less emissions generated.

theValheru853

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122270600#Comment_122270600

Well, concerning the coalition, FF and FG only hooked up in order to stop SF forming a minority government and the Green Party only got invited along create a majority, but once the coalition formed, the Green Party had the other 2 over a barrel, an effect that will diminish as the next general election approaches, whether this year or next. then we will see each party show their true colors towards each other.

As to every parties sustainability policies, the majority of those are at least tempered by the fact that people still need to be able to live and not be driven onto the poverty line like what the Green Part are forcing on people, and while the Green Party are doing that, they are doing irreparable damage to the reputation of the green movement.

theValheru853

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122270867#Comment_122270867

A: Not unique, no, but from what I have read they pretty much led the charge against it, and the Green Party senator involved who is the Chairperson of the Green party objected to it on the grounds it conflicted with Government policy ( https://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/green-party-chair-consulting-on-challenge-to-galway-ring-road-1.4769465 ),and the other main objectors to it were members of other environmental groups ( https://www.galwaybeo.ie/news/galway-news/galway-ring-road-quashed-high-8091167 )

B) Read my earlier reply to you concerning what bypasses meant for Limerick and Ennis.

And yes when your MPG is good it means that you engine is running efficiently. Higher MPG means less emissions per mile travelled. 1 gallon of petrol creates about 11 kg of CO2. If your stuck in traffic, your MPG drops meaning that 1 Gallon of petrol (11kg of CO2) may only get you 30 miles instead of 40 miles, depending on engine size and driving styles, and time stuck in traffic.

Next time you are out in your in your own car, use it's MPG gauge, or equivalent and use it to measure your MPG under various conditions, and do the maths.

roosterman71

Are ye all forgetting that in 11 short years ICE cars will be banned and it's EV all the way? There's plans to have hundreds of thousands of them by 2030. Therefore, all the talk of not building the Galway bypass due to emissions is a joke, as the vehicles using it will be more and more EV types by time the bloody thing opens

yagan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122271805#Comment_122271805

The emissions argument for not making safer roads really shows how deranged the Greens are.

I reckon the majority wouldn't know their way beyond the M50. If they were stuck in Charleville everyday they might know better.

theValheru853

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122271805#Comment_122271805

Not quite.

It is a ban on the sale of ICE vehicles that use fossil fuels. Petrol and Diesel can be easily around for another 20 to 30 years after that, and unless EVs really improve the performance on the current models, and the price of EV's really plunges, which is highly unlikely seeing as the EU is imposing tarrifs on Non EU manufactured EV vehicles, rather than forcing EU car manufacturers to compete, 2034 could see a lot of new ICE engined cars sales. I know several people that regret buying EVs due to insufficeint range and excessive depreciation.

Also the ban does not include the sales of ICE powered vehicles that can use "carbon neutral" fuels such as biodiesel or ethanol for example.

Also, for all these alternate soures of energy, sources will need to be found for them, which means land will need to be set aside for wind turbines, solar Farms and crops for alternate fuels.

So I don't think it will be EV's all the way. More likely hybrids to deal with EV's short comings like Nissan's e-power tech., but the ICE will be here for a long time to come yet.

yagan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122272215#Comment_122272215

I reckon phev will be the biggest car segment by the decades end the byd 2000 Klm range is true.

moonage

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122272215#Comment_122272215

Petrol and diesel cars mightn't be around for 20 or 30 years after the ban if the government won't issue NCT certs.

When the ban was originally set for 2030, no certs were to be issued after 2045.

roosterman71

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122272215#Comment_122272215

Oh yeah. I agree. My point was that holding up a bypass on emissions grounds is bull when government policy is to reduce emissions in the transport sector, therefore negating the argument regarding emissions. EVs are going through a rough patch, but probably will come out the other side and be the go-to choice for lots. They already should be for the majority of car owners but marketing/supports/depreciation/etc has them in a bad place right now. Synthetic fuels is another folly. As you said, taking more land out of the equation to produce energy, while taking more for the now passed NRL is going to lead to food security issues down the line. Already more pushes on getting South American foods into the EU after the vote yesterday as companies start to look for alternative suppliers outside the bloc

yagan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122272790#Comment_122272790

I know it's slightly off tangent to the topic but already labour shortages are emerging as a greater material threat. If every vehicle was an ev tomorrow you'd still have growing logical failures.

Countries that are currently being riled by anti immigrant sentiment will find themselves competing against each other in the next decade just to keep their vital logistics from collapsing.