Hamas strike on Israel - mod warning in OP updated 19/10/23

dmcdona

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121741700#Comment_121741700

Genocide:

ICJ measures:

1. For Israel to take "all measures" to prevent acts of genocide from taking place

2. To ensure the IDF does not engage in any acts of genocide

3. To prevent and punish public incitement to genocide, including by government and military officials

4. To enable basic services and humanitarian aid to reach Gazan civilians

5. To preserve evidence related to violations of Genocide Convention

6. To submit a report to the ICJ within one month on all measures taken

Toeuptony

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121741895#Comment_121741895

If this were the penalty (and I heard there was a 5 year ban proposed too) let them try to levy it. I'd imagine that many more countries would line up behind Ireland to support this movement, which would have caused critical mass of banned countries and would cause all previous bans and fines to be cancelled. I'd also imagine that a lot of the fine could be crowd funded too if it came to that.

Apartheid in South Africa was ended in part by protests by the general public and bans from international sporting competitions. It started here with Mary Manning and what started with a trickle ended up as a flood. The same thing needs to happen now with this nightmare. Israel and the population who support the government there should be treated as pariahs, unwelcome anywhere they go until at the very least a permanent ceasefire and ideally a permanent two state solution.

dmcdona

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121741718#Comment_121741718

I was subject to severe bullying in school. I was physically attacked, punched, kicked, bitten, had my clothing burned, I was spat on, my lunch money was stolen.

I was always on the losing side.

Maybe I should have taken the hint?

markodaly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121741457#Comment_121741457

Again, you are showing off your utter ignorance of history.

Polish military casualties after 6 weeks of war with the Germans were approximately 66,000 killed, another 134,000 wounded, and another 675,000 captured. Most of those captured ended up dying in concentration camps.

Do you want to hear the civilian casuaties?

7,000 died from the bombing of Warsaw alone.

150,000-200,00 civilians died during this invasion, it is estimated.

All told when the fighting was over approx 5.6 million poles died.

So, please stop pontificating over stuff you know nothing about.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invasion_of_Poland

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_casualties_of_Poland

dmcdona

A stain for generations to come.

Haaretz:

After PM Netanyahu called Hamas' response to the proposal "delusional," senior Hamas official Osama Hamdan said the PM's remarks show he intends to pursue conflict in the region.

Released Israeli hostages responded to Netanyahu's remarks Wednesday night, saying, "We have reached the moment of truth where we must decide who will live and who will die. The price is heavy, but the price of abandonment will be a stain for generations to come."

dmcdona

Fantasy

"With his constant refrain of 'continuing until total victory,' Netanyahu, like many other leaders before him, is living in a Churchillian fantasy. What he can't accept is that in his World War II cosplaying, he isn't Winston Churchill but Neville Chamberlain – the dismal appeaser whom Churchill replaced eight months after war began" – Anshel Pfeffer

dmcdona

Haaretz:

The major Israeli protest movement that led the Kaplan Street protests against PM Netanyahu's judicial coup announced that protests calling for new elections will resume on Thursday night across Israel for the first time since October 7.

War cabinet ministers Benny Gantz and Gadi Eisenkot met with U.S. Secretary of State Antony Blinken, who said that he raised with Netanyahu "profound concerns about actions and rhetoric, including from government officials, that inflame tension and undercut international support and place greater strains on Israel's security."

markodaly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121741720#Comment_121741720

Perhaps not a ruling per se, but did issue the following order.

The Court deems it necessary to emphasize that all parties to the conflict in the Gaza Strip are bound by international humanitarian law. It is gravely concerned about the fate of the hostages abducted during the attack in Israel on 7 October 2023 and held since then by Hamas and other armed groups, and calls for their immediate and unconditional release.

markodaly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121741770#Comment_121741770

Are we actually engaging in a debate, where a poster is trying to downplay what the Nazis did in Europe, in order to win an argument on the internet?

God help us.

Frank Grimes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121742086#Comment_121742086

Emphasising something, being concerned by something and then calling for something isn't issuing an order. And before you start trying to accuse me of anti-Semitism I agree with the ICJ, I just take issue with you trying to frame this in a certain way when you're simultaneously trying to berate people for spreading misinformation.

markodaly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121741940#Comment_121741940

Did you attack and severely injure the bully's family?

I am drawing a parallel with what happened regarding Hamas on October 7th.

OK, not sure what your personal story has to do with decades of Palestinian mishaps, mistakes and bad strategy, but it is not the same thing.

Timberrrrrrrr

More IDF scumbaggery

https://twitter.com/ShaykhSulaiman/status/1755619994577117271?t=c4XmAoBRAqYHdqa21P7vYw&s=19

markodaly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121741835#Comment_121741835

The correct thing to do would be to ban them from all international competitions, as happened with the Russians and even Belarus. 

That is up to international sporting bodies and affiliates, like the IOC, FIFA.

Also, what Israel is doing is not remotely the same as what Russia is doing. Not by a mile, so for that reason, I wouldn't ask the ban them.

As to the women's Basketball team, they hanlded it terribly imo.

What is your motivation I wonder?

You tell me?

markodaly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121741867#Comment_121741867

The order from the ICJ is this.

The Court deems it necessary to emphasize that all parties to the conflict in the Gaza Strip are bound by international humanitarian law. It is gravely concerned about the fate of the hostages abducted during the attack in Israel on 7 October 2023 and held since then by Hamas and other armed groups, and calls for their immediate and unconditional release.

It alludes to Hamas breaking international law, mentions their abduction as hostages (one can call this a war crime) and calls for immediate and unconditional release.

dmcdona

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121742086#Comment_121742086

This is what you said originally:

ICJ ruled that Hamas were in breach of international law and was carrying out a war crime in keeping hostages

Are you going to correct what you posted, which is clearly misinformation?

markodaly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121741875#Comment_121741875

They didn't have to say it.

Not shaking hands with the players themselves makes it very open to interpretation.

Why didn't they just shake hands and present a letter outlining concerns to them, or something like that?

Again, much better ways to outline one's concerns than to have yourself open to the accusation of racism.

Timberrrrrrrr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121742168#Comment_121742168

"all parties to the conflict in the Gaza Strip are bound by international humanitarian law"

and yet when you're shown proof of Israel breaking international law you twist yourself in knots trying to defend them

Frank Grimes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121742190#Comment_121742190

They wouldn't shake hands because they were accused of being anti-Semites, they already had gotten the accusation of racism so I'm not sure what a letter would have achieved.

dmcdona

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121742127#Comment_121742127

This is what you posted, to which I replied with my anecdote:

Well, Hamas did strike Israel in October 7th, triggering this latest war. A long succession of wars where the Palestinians and Arabs in general have been on the losing side.

One wonders, will they ever take the hint that they are not very good at this and perhaps take a more proactive peaceful position to a better future?

So, I was on the losing the side. Always.

Your logic suggests I should have taken the hint and taken a more proactive peaceful position to a better future vis-à-vis the bully.

It's exactly the same thing.

But, since you ask, no I didn't attack and severely injure the bully's family.

My dad went around and had a conversation with the bully's father. The bully's father said I had "deserved it".

My dad knocked seven colours of sh*te out of him.

I never got bullied again and had a much better future thanks.

markodaly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121741910#Comment_121741910

A picture/video with no context is not misinformation.

Perhaps you call it misinformation because it doesn't suit your narrative?

A picture or video claiming for definite 'something bad' that is not verified, checked, or given context, IS misinformation.

It is meant to illict an emotional response, rather than a logical, rational one. It's easy, it's a 2 second sound bite.

"Israel is scum" Post a random photo of a bombed-out building and there it's done. See it's that easy.

It is debate by inducing rage, from Twitter accounts engaged in what is termed 'Rage Merchants' so called because many of them monitize this sort of activity on Social Media, especially Twitter.

Jackson Hinkle is a good example of this. He is exposed below for what he is up to.

https://twitter.com/P_Kallioniemi/status/1630556786347458560?lang=en

There are many examples of this in the past few days.

If you condone that sort of stuff then fine, but I am not having truck with it, sorry.

dmcdona

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121742168#Comment_121742168

Do you agree then, that your original statement below, is in fact incorrect?

"ICJ ruled that Hamas were in breach of international law and was carrying out a war crime in keeping hostages"

markodaly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121742073#Comment_121742073

I am not sure what the point of that is.

Is the Author saying he is too soft, comparing him to the appeaser, Neville Chamberlain?

markodaly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121742123#Comment_121742123

The ICJ called it an order, not me.

markodaly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121742186#Comment_121742186

No, because that the ICJ said.

dmcdona

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121742265#Comment_121742265

I don't condone misinformation at all. I actually despise misinformation and wholeheartedly support "facts matter".

I'm only pointing out that a picture without context does not prove it to be false or misinformation. Certainly, a true picture with a false context or a false picture with true context can be misleading and therefore can be misinformation.

Here's another example. The context is that this is on a wall in Bethlehem (both picture and context are true)

Frank Grimes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121742329#Comment_121742329

Where did they call it an order or a ruling?

markodaly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121742224#Comment_121742224

They wouldn't shake hands because they were accused of being anti-Semites, they already had gotten the accusation of racism so I'm not sure what a letter would have achieved.

Well, not shaking their hands, kind of confirms the accusation, no?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121741457#Comment_121741457

“They have probably exceeded what the Nazis did in the first 4 months of this than they managed in WW2.”

Er, no. Germany’s initial invasion of Poland in 1939 resulted in about 80,000 military deaths (66,000 Polish, 14,000 German) alone. Eventually over 20% of Poland’s population (about 5 million) fell victim to Nazi depredations by 1945.

Frank Grimes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121742377#Comment_121742377

In your mind clearly and the fact you probably genuinely believe this really isn't surprising at all.

markodaly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121742228#Comment_121742228

Israel team accused he entire nation of being antisemitic because they can't take any sort of **** criticism leveled at them like a grown up

You need to check the facts.

They were accused of anti-semitism because the team didn't want to play them.