Hamas strike on Israel - mod warning in OP updated 19/10/23

Hey boy

https://www.timesofisrael.com/directly-beneath-unrwas-gaza-headquarters-idf-uncovers-top-secret-hamas-data-center/

hotmail.com

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121751617#Comment_121751617

Gaza has been flattened. What war are you watching? With Joe Biden's support.

Raoul Duke III

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121742240#Comment_121742240

To move to...other democracies. Like Australia, the US, the UK.

I can't believe anyone is actually nitpicking a statement that democracy is the best form of government. Yes, democracies can and do have flaws, but overall they deliver far better lives for their citizens than the alternatives.

I'm Irish btw.

Toeuptony

https://twitter.com/OwenJones84/status/1756415446989836318?t=_wCCcsAnrO4E-fpufUwAjw&s=19

The double standards in the media over their coverage of this atrocity is stunning!

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121751873#Comment_121751873

Perhaps Israel should stop deliberately engineering conditions where democracy cannot exist for the Palestinians

hotmail.com

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121751963#Comment_121751963

American media for you. CNN, New York Times - awful media.

Hey boy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121751994#Comment_121751994

The Palestinians in Gaza aren’t allowed to vote because Hamas says no, not Israel. Sigh. One vote, that’s all they got.

Hamas should surrender and give ordinary Gazans a chance.

Hey boy

I see that a pro-Palestine protester who held up a “Call Hamas for a ceasefire” sign in London today had his poster destroyed by other ‘peace activists’.

There should be more of the former and less of the latter behaviour.

i understand SF put out similar protesters from their gathering earlier this week. What I read indicated the protesters were Palestinians.

Why are anti Hamas signs not allowed/welcome at a pro Palestine march/rally?

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121752091#Comment_121752091

It's strange that people posting on an Irish message board are apparently clueless as to what can drive the rise of certain structures within society. Given that we had 30+ years of killings up the North................... and yet the environment up there changed without all of the people there being murdered or blown to bits.

Perhaps though you are not aware of such matters.

Hey boy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121752165#Comment_121752165

Donald

Heh heh. You are now making a different argument.

Hamas won’t hold another election. Fact. You don’t want to acknowledge that because it doesn’t fit your narrative. Israel left Gaza in 2005, nearly 20 years ago.

Israel is doing a lot wrong and it’s right to point it out but why the reluctance to blame Hamas when it’s appropriate and correct, as in the very example YOU brought up and tried to blame Israel?

Wolf359f

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121752215#Comment_121752215

IDF soldiers may have left Gaza back then, but make no mistake Gaza has been occupied since then. You don't need boots on the ground to occupy an area.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121752215#Comment_121752215

Fair enough. I will resign myself to the fact that you can't think for yourself and will be forever constrained to simply parroting zionist propaganda. I was initially surprised that you couldn't understand the simple point given the history on this island, but then I realised that that is par for the course.

BTW, a quote from your dear leader:

Anyone who wants to thwart the establishment of a Palestinian state has to support bolstering Hamas and transferring money to Hamas … This is part of our strategy – to isolate the Palestinians in Gaza from the Palestinians in the West Bank

Article from an Israeli newspaper the day after the Hamas attack:

For years, the various governments led by Benjamin Netanyahu took an approach that divided power between the Gaza Strip and the West Bank — bringing Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas to his knees while making moves that propped up the Hamas terror group.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/

dmcdona

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121751641#Comment_121751641

Totally agree. I think if the clock could be turned back, the horror of this war would have been avoided.

I think the majority of Israeli civilians are getting the sh*ttty end of the stick from their Govt and the hard-liners and Settlers. The IDF are behaving atrociously and I'd bet there are many in the IDF who are disgusted with the behaviour of some of their colleagues. The hostage families have been promised their loved ones back but nothing has been done since the pause. For all of this, the nation will pay on the world stage - finance, tourism, trustworthiness and so on.

The Palestinians are being battered daily, they are living on animal feed and so on. I'd imagine the living who survive will suffer for the rest of their lives with this trauma and bereavement. They have been hoodwinked by Hamas for years and now pay the price.

When this is over, there has to be cool heads getting together to make hard decisions that result in peace and security for both the Israelis and the Palestinians. This just cannot happen again - man's inhumanity to man.

dmcdona

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121751647#Comment_121751647

That is true.

dmcdona

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121751653#Comment_121751653

That is necessary - no means for Hamas to re-arm or bolster their position in any way.

dmcdona

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121751716#Comment_121751716

I'm watching the same war as you - and I get that the US has supplied, for years, weapons to Israel. Serious weapons like 2000lb bombs.

But given the memorandum issue Thursday, I believe they now realise they are in jeopardy of aiding and abetting genocide. I understand moves are underway to take complicit countries to the ICJ - US, UK and a few others.

No-one can turn the clock back but I do think the US is attempting to make amends where it can.

I avoid directly attributing policy to "Joe Biden" since it is the US Govt. that lay down the rules. Biden has some sway as President but not much. He's be trying to push through aid to Ukraine for months.

dmcdona

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121751963#Comment_121751963

I think in fairness to reputable news agencies, they can only state what they can verify. Bear in mind that truth is the first casualty of war.

The BBC report gives as much verified information as possible. As soon as further verification is received, the BBC will update its reporting. This is standard reputable journalism.

This is their top news item and is very prominent - they are at least giving her story the coverage it deserves.

Its absolutely heart-breaking. Five of her relatives in the car plus two medics responding in their ambulance were all killed.

Hoboo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121752317#Comment_121752317

Making amends and pushing through aid?

Or

Trying to take the moral high ground AFTER supporting and providing the weapons to commit mass genocide, and pushing through weapons in Ukraine to further US interests while only Ukrainians are slaughtered.

Why dress it up?

dmcdona

I'm not dressing anything up and I'm not familiar with the details of the Ukraine war.

https://youtu.be/FBp3xyradxk?feature=shared

dmcdona

...

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-68255843

hotmail.com

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121752317#Comment_121752317

Even if the US/Biden changes it's mind in the next few months, the damage is done. The genocide is done. America and Biden will get no credit for withdrawing support (and I don't believe they will do that). Biden is a committed Zionist and has been his whole career.

Jack Daw

Even though I 100% support Israel's right to defend itself it is quite clear that Israel have been idiots throughout this recent chapter of this conflict it's also been quite clear that there is a percentage of Israeli's who appear to have a degree of glee over what is happening which is quite scummy just as the glee over the October 7th attacks was quite scummy as well. I think Israel's response has been disproportionate just like the bombing of Dresden and the Hiroshima and Nagasaki bombs were disproportionate.

They have been played like a fiddle by Hamas and the arab world.Hamas do not care about the Palestinian people one bit and are using them essentially as human shields so they can push the Evil Israeli's idea and gain sympathy world wide for  the Palestinian issue and islamic issues in general.Israel have done exactly what Hamas hoped they would and have effectively in the eyes of a lot of the world turned Israel into the bad guys.

If they want to get rid of Hamas and solve this situation once and for all they need to kill them with kindness and have killed Hamas leaders , cut the head off the snake and then went in took over Gaza and improved the lives of the Palestinians to the point where they realise how much Hamas was holding them back.People generally only need religious fundamentalism when their lives are so bad they have nothing else to hope for in life, improve the lives of the Palestinians under Israeli control add you'd play a part in eradicating Hamas and islamic fundamentalism.

All Israel's actions have achieved is to radicalise another generation of young Palestinians and young arabs and muslims against Israel.

Hey boy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121752242#Comment_121752242

The point being discussed was whether Israel was preventing the Palestinians holding elections. The answer for Gaza was no, it’s Hamas.

I don’t agree that Gaza was/is occupied since 2005. It could have been a great place but when the government focus on tunnel life rather than beach life…

Not everything bad in the region is Israel’s fault.

Igotadose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121752613#Comment_121752613

Important points; Hamas could end this conflict tomorrow, by surrendering. Their objective, however, isn't winning anything - just killing. They don't have any traditional 'war' objectives - if they did, you'd have expected them to sue for peace by now.

But, they'd rather sacrifice their fellow Gazans, they don't value Gazan lives. Remember they steal aid, too, as that brave Gazan grandmother said to Al Jazeera.

And they have tonnes of support, like Iran, and the Houthis.

Timberrrrrrrr

And here we are, another day another israeli caught out with her lies

Sandra Ifrah, the spokesperson for Women United for Peace, admits that the story of the Israeli female detainees, in whom 67 different sperm were found, was a lie.

Hey boy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121752611#Comment_121752611

Jack

A fair bit to agree with in this.

Hey boy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121752664#Comment_121752664

I think (just my opinion) that Hamas get more sustenance from all the protests/rallies etc that Israel takes chastisement. Ie, I think there a lot of useful idiots in the West who unwittingly may contribute to the conflict continuing longer than necessary as Hamas hope Israel will be told to stop before Hamas infrastructure etc in Gaza is totally destroyed.

Hey boy

Fairly scary that according to the IT article, Israel had declared UNWRA HQ in Gaza clear only to be told by Palestinians to go back and dig down to find the infrastructure below ground. It could take a long time to root all such infrastructure out.

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121751509#Comment_121751509

It's not justifying it. The reason it is happening is because there is a war.

Civilians being killed is beyond description. It's terrible, no words really describe the horror.

But it's war, that's why it's happening. That's the reason. That's not justifying it.

volchitsa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121752165#Comment_121752165

"Up there" as you put it (nice bit of "othering" going on there I see) is where I grew up, and I can tell you that the IRA did nothing to help ordinary nationalists, and also that Gaza is a warning lesson for how life might have been in Northern Ireland if we had given electoral power to the IRA to run the place into the ground in the name of "destroying the British Empire".

Of course that never happened, because Sinn Fein never had a mandate to use the Northern Ireland economy in its "war effort" to kill random protestant women and children just for being protestant. There is no equivalent to October 7th in the Northern Ireland troubles, and ordinary nationalists would not have accepted that being done in their name.

It's ironic to see people from the south where they were all grand with Section 31 at the time, and accused John Hume of "betrayal" for trying to get peace by talking to the IRA, now going hook line and sinker for the exact opposite position, portraying the IRA as some sort of civil rights supporters.

They weren't, and nothing they did ever got civil rights for nationalists. It was the peace marches that did that. The IRA was wholly counterproductive in terms of the quality of life for ordinary nationalists. Like Hamas has destroyed life in Gaza. But at least we never had war crimes against babies being committed in our name.