Hamas strike on Israel - mod warning in OP updated 19/10/23

end of the road

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121754233#Comment_121754233

there is a genocide, the fact that it is a fact and is happening makes it so.

a small conflict can still allow for genocide, the intent is there and no care is been taken to prevent it meaning it is deliberate and is happening and being allowed to happen.

hamas can do nothing, this isn't about hamas but about land theft and re-occupation.

even if hamas stopped existing tommorw the genocide would continue.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121753347#Comment_121753347

Not at all.

In a thread about the genocide of innocent men, women and children, you sought to introduce - as some kind of argument that:

Oh this, BTW: you are joking when you try to imply that if Israel did not exist, that Palestine would be a stable democracy? Aren't you?

One of approximately zero in that part of the world - right?

Well, except for Israel, which actually is a democracy.

If Israel did not exist, statistically the likelihood is that Palestine would be an authoritarian hellhole. Quite possibly with a latent or open civil war between Muslim and/or tribal factions. That's what the other similar countries around it are like, after all.

It is all part of the dehumanisation in order to facilitate the genocide.

But feel free to tell us why your assertion that they would not have a democracy anyway in the future is in any way relevant to whether they should be allowed to live or die today

end of the road

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121754269#Comment_121754269

israel have been deliberately slaughtering civilians in gaza on and off for decades, they have also been slaughtering palestinians in the west bank and stealing their homes, all aspects of ethnic cleansing and genocide.

yes, the intent of belligerent unionism in northern ireland was to ethnically cleanse northern ireland of catholics/nationalists by trying to force them out, at first via discriminatory policies and then by pograms and burning them out.

israel did not have thousands of people crossing the border from gaza to work, this is a myth, what they did have is a small few who crossed with special permission with heavy restrictions, that permisssion was often revoked at the border.

a population boom does not negate genocide taking place nor mean genocide isn't happening, it is happening and israel is engaging in it.

nobody has stated jews are committing genocide seeing as israel is not the jews and the jews are not israel, jews live all over the world and like everyone else, have different views beliefs and feelings on all sorts of issues.

it is those equating israel with jews who are antisemetic, including those in support of israel who are doing it.

migration from the south of ireland cannot equate to ethnic cleansing seeing as there was no policy of forcing out people or groups of people, but simply the country was poor and unable to take care and provide for it's people.

volchitsa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121754351#Comment_121754351

There was no genocide of catholics, and nor did I ever suggest there was.

And nor, by the way, have I defended Bloody Sunday. Quite the opposite.

Though I am at least beginning to see why you have such a terrible understanding of the Israel-Gaza conflict - you seem unable to read the words on the screen in front of you. Or maybe you just don't understand the difference between big hard words like "discrimination" versus "genocide".

Try moving your lips as you read: it may help.

Danzy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121754377#Comment_121754377

It is not a genocide, it is a small but locally significant fast paced war.

It will not even dent the population growth of gaza.

It's as far away with from genocide as it could be.

Let's not pretend every conflict or fight from here on is a genocide. Let that term have real meaning.

As always the power to stop it is in the hands of the party who started the war yet hamas refuse to do so.

Timberrrrrrrr

Over 11,000 dead children who will never grow up, get married and have children of their own and you come out with this despicable statement

"It will not even dent the population growth of gaza."

Danzy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121754429#Comment_121754429

That's why Hamas must be stopped and rooted out.

They must never be allowed do this again.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121754429#Comment_121754429

Tens of thousands more maimed and crippled for life.

Not to mind long lasting psychological effects or effects from malnutrition across the entire population

Dismissed as if it were nothing.

Sudden Valley

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121754438#Comment_121754438

Israel has killed these kids. Hamas are not solely responsible for their deaths

volchitsa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121754450#Comment_121754450

No, it's absolutely horrendous. And it is Hamas' fault.

(Any chance you'd spare a thought for the Jewish children who have also been traumatised by seeing family and friends murdered, and some of whom were kidnapped into Gaza where they were kept in awful conditions, not being fed properly while the Gazans keeping them ate normally, and being forced to keep silent, including small children, because - they were told by their captors - if the people outside in the street learned that there were Jews being kept prisoner, they'd break in and lynch them. But they should just get over it, right? They're only Jews after all.)

dmcdona

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121753960#Comment_121753960

This is a war crime - killing civilians and preventing medical aid.

I trust there will be a full investigation by the IDF** and the ICC will hold those found responsible fully accountable.

** doubtful on past performance

dmcdona

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121754438#Comment_121754438

Given Israel is doing the killing, perhaps it is Israel who should be stopped and never be allowed to do this again?

If there was no genocide taking place, or a possibility of genocide, why has the ICJ issued 6 provisional measure for Israel to comply with?

jmreire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121753125#Comment_121753125

You are quoting the wrong context. I grew up in the height of the troubles, and if you went into any schools where there were 16/17-year-olds back then, you would get volunteers, for sure!! But going back to Palestine, what you said about indoctrination (by both sides) is part and parcel of the "environment" there, but if that was not enough, you have it all based on a layer of Islam which preaches no acceptance or interaction with non-Muslims. If or when there will be a peace agreement, bubbling away in the background you will have Islamic Jihad. And that's the broader picture that I was talking about. It's not just a dispute about land etc. Its inextricably tied up with religion, and in that part of the world, that counts.

volchitsa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121754377#Comment_121754377

Oh dear. After earlier pretending you couldn't see anyone defending Hamas, despite there being posts from postes who said they would join it, and others saying that the October 7th attack was not a crime, now you're claiming that someone has said the above. They haven't.

Is there a reason why you can't see stuff that posters have actually said, and yet also imagine stuff that others haven't said? Could it possibly be to do with the posters you agree with??

dmcdona

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121754499#Comment_121754499

Do you have a source for the hostage situation as you have described it? I wasn't aware there were reports that detailed.

You believe the blame falls entirely on Hamas alone for the killing of 30,000 and injuring 65,000?

Timberrrrrrrr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121754438#Comment_121754438

Or

And hear me out

Israel could stop fùcking bombing innocent children.

nacho libre

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121754499#Comment_121754499

Israel as the democracy you claim it to be , has international obligations to abide by international law. Although as I said earlier Joe has one eye on the election, it also shows that the US Government disagrees with you that's it's all Hamas's fault. So much for your earlier post stating you hold both sides to account. It seems you are going out of your way to defend the IDF with this post.

nachouser

To use the "rooted out" argument, it would be akin to me doing a bit of weeding in my garden with a flame thrower.

Sir_Name

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121754233#Comment_121754233

Wondered when you would be back.

can you please provide a source for your claim? I call BS.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67764664.amp

Israel were breaking international law prior to Oct 7th. And using your logic the Israeli hostages should be prisoners of war.

nacho libre

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121754414#Comment_121754414

Is it though?

Bibi has no interest in a ceasefire. He rejected a ceasefire. He probably thinks if he sees this war through to the end his Mr Security image can be rehabilitated. His attempts to upend the Israeli consitiution in order to stay in power clearly demonstrate he is intent on power at all costs. If he wasn't the leader of Israel, there would likely be sanctions imposed on him by the Americans.

Timberrrrrrrr

More IDF scumbaggery

Israeli soldiers film themselves wrecking a shop in Ramallah and posy it on their social media.

Another war crime committed but I'm sure the usual defenders of this behaviour will be able to explain how this is necessary.

https://twitter.com/QudsNen/status/1756711506127868079?t=30xJTG85y7lzV4aXzZQtYg&s=19

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121754582#Comment_121754582

That sort of extremism excels in the environments which Israel creates for Palestinians. Why would one expect a Palestinian schoolboy who gets needlessly harassed and humiliated every day by IDF soldiers at checkpoints etc. to be more immune to advances from extremist elements than you might have expected a Catholic schoolboy in Belfast who was getting less hassle from British soldiers.

To go back to the North as an example - there are still areas where the more serious sectarianism and hatred lives on. But they are in places where the people are relatively poor and deprived. There is cause and effect. That is not to absolve anyone of personal responsibility, but the causative factors need to be recognised if there is to be any hope of improving a situation

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121754499#Comment_121754499

Funny that. Most normal people would blame it on the sniper who decided to pull the trigger on a defenceless and vulnerable woman and her child for sh1ts and giggles in order to put on his TikTok.

Hey boy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121754839#Comment_121754839

Go on, who are “the usual defenders of this behaviour”?

nachouser

This thread could basically be re-named to "On: Lacking empathy." Like some sort of performance art piece.

volchitsa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121754600#Comment_121754600

There have been a number of them. One clip that I saw was an older woman whose name I can't remember, who talked about only being given a single piece of pitta bread with za'atar each day, so dry that she could barely eat it, and some plain rice at night, whereas the man in the home she was staying in drank coffee and ate better food (a different kind of bread was mentioned) in front of her. That's who said that the captors told them that the reason for keeping silent was so that ordinary people wouldn't hear them and break in to kill them.

I haven't seen that clip coming up just now, but here is Mia Schem saying something similar: https://www.voanews.com/a/israeli-french-hostage-was-groped-denied-food-for-days-while-in-gaza-/7418750.html

https://www.instagram.com/visit2israel/p/C2zGHQHoBzn/

And this clip below also describes the hostility from ordinary Gazans, so that the hostages feared they were about to be lynched: https://edition.cnn.com/2024/01/04/middleeast/israel-hostage-doron-katz-asher-interview-hamas-gaza-intl/index.html I don't think it mentions food but I haven't listened to it all.

The end of this one too says how she thought they would be killed because people (civilians) attacked the cars bringing them to be released: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xttfPD0Nkpc

Timberrrrrrrr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121754974#Comment_121754974

Read the thread, decide for yourself.

dmcdona

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121755036#Comment_121755036

There was a video many pages ago of the Polish (I think) artist dressed as an IDF soldier putting razor wire around a crib...

Raoul Duke III

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121754857#Comment_121754857

Not denying your observations on the sources of extremism, although I do think that comparing Ulster with Palestine is a little simplistic and fails to take account of the very different sociocultural environments.

There isn't just extremism on one side of this conflict though. There are extremists on the Israeli side too - where and how would you say these were inculcated?

hotmail.com

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121754429#Comment_121754429

Genocidal Joe should be the main focus of this anger. Biden couldn't give a toss.