Hamas strike on Israel - mod warning in OP updated 19/10/23

hotmail.com · 12-02-2024 4:18pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121758399#Comment_121758399

There is no criticism of the Israeli Gov from the current American President/administration. America is funding the war. I don't see any small mercy with whoever was in office in America.

Frankly I find it bizarre how many Irish people want to boycott everything Israeli but won't boycott or protest America.

markodaly · 12-02-2024 4:21pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121758053#Comment_121758053

That would be my position on the matter.

I will say firstly I am no fan of Bibi and some of its government ministers.

I think the Settlements in the West Bank are grossly wrong and just inflame a situation.

However, I blame Hamas and Iran for this war first and foremost.

Palestinians and their leaders need to stop being used and seek out a new non-violent future.

Think Ghandi, think MLK, think the older and wiser Mandela.

If the Palestinians think they can use violence as a means to achieve a political aim, they are sorely wrong, as Israel is just too strong for them, and will do what they think is right in quelling said violence.

Anyone who genuinely wants peace in Gaza should be asking for Hamas to release the hostages and lay down its arms.

nacho libre · 12-02-2024 4:23pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121758476#Comment_121758476

Israel are not exactly holding back in their use of firepower either. They have used white phosphorous as well as 2000 pounds bombs. Are you also aware that Israel and Russia have worked together in the past.

Bibi also has expressed past admiration for Putin. Israel has not given military aid to Ukraine either. I do realise that the war in Gaza suits Russia, but how does that absolve the IDF for any breaches of International law. Is it excusable to commit wrongdoing because of what someone else maybe doing?

markodaly · 12-02-2024 4:24pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121758489#Comment_121758489

Where do we start?

We had an Irish politician proclaim that the attack was a 'beautiful thing'.

From polls, most Palestinians approved of the attacks, this is the biggest issue in of itself. They are brought up hate.

And we now know, there a deep antisemitism in the Arab world that we dismiss. THIS is the main issue of the conflict.

If Palestinians and their neighbours stop hating Jews so much there would be peace.

nacho libre · 12-02-2024 4:26pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121758504#Comment_121758504

There is criticism but you could be right that it is likely just windowdressing to appease Biden's voting base.

We won't do it because we are beholden to American investment In Ireland. This is what Leo really means when he says we must act in concert with the EU.

ceadaoin. · 12-02-2024 4:27pm

"Why can't Israel do targeted attacks to take out hamas?" They do targeted attacks and kill some Hamas members and are still in the wrong. "why can't they go in and free the hostages?" They go in and free some hostages and, shockingly, they are still in the wrong.

No matter what Israel do they will always be criticised by those who just hate them. The only country in the world expected not to defend themselves, and if they do go to war, the only country expected not to kill anyone

markodaly · 12-02-2024 4:28pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121758524#Comment_121758524

No matter how you dice it, Russia and Iran and Hamas are one on this.

Just because Israel in the past was nuanced about Russia, doesn't mean it will be so in future.

There is a clear line in the sand here. Between the Democratic Liberal West and the Autocratic tyrannical likes of Iran and Russia.

nacho libre · 12-02-2024 4:37pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121758549#Comment_121758549

Nuanced you say. You wouldn't be using that word if it was Orban or anyone else expressing admiration for Putin. There is no clear lines in geo politics, the democratic Liberal west fosters relationships with autocratic regimes like Saudia Arabia. In any case this does not excuse those who claim to be western democratic liberals for trying to upend their consitiution to stay in power and excusing viloations of international law on the basis of what their enemies might do.

Gerry T · 12-02-2024 4:38pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121758491#Comment_121758491

Jewish people harassed Palestinians being imprisoned

Jewish people have gone into hiding Palestinians having to flea and everything left behind is destroyed

Jewish people receiving death threats Palestinians being killed in their thousands

Jewish businesses targetted Palestinian businesses destroyed or stolen

Jewish children as young as 5 receiving threats Same as 3, Palestinian kids killed in their thousands

I am sure you agree its beyond the pale. It must be very hard for the Israelis (not Jews as you say)

markodaly · 12-02-2024 4:46pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121758598#Comment_121758598

So I guess your great bit of 'whataboutery' justified 5-year-old Jewish kids being harrassed, because of a conflict they have no involvement in, but they are the same ethnicity as one of the actors?

I have concluded that some people will never condemn attacks and harassment against Jews, because in their eyes it is deserved.

Igotadose · 12-02-2024 4:46pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121758598#Comment_121758598

In Australia? Or are you advocating for such behaviours worldwide?

dmcdona · 12-02-2024 4:48pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121758491#Comment_121758491

Sorry - that info was not in the link posted. But I'll take your word for it. And yes, anyone who targets people via WhatsApp, regardless of their faith etc. should be held to account and brought to justice.

260 Palestinian children less than 12 months old murdered by the IDF.

I'm sure you'd agree that goes beyond the pale.

Iscreamkone · 12-02-2024 5:17pm

There’s a lot of whataboutery going on here. The facts are Hamas (the government of The Gaza) brought this war to their home with their actions on Oct 7.

“But this war started before then” - Not this part of it.

Hamas/Palestine and their supporters are now crying because the IDF have a big stick and are using it. Well maybe Hamas/Palestine should’ve thought about that on Oct 6.

At the end of the day Israel’s duty is to protect their citizens from this EVER happening again.

Future Palestinian leadership should look to protect their people from harm. A terror attack on their militarily strong neighbour probably won’t be high on their agenda, I hope.

hotmail.com · 12-02-2024 5:38pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121758543#Comment_121758543

So if Ireland has economic links with a country, it will not protest against them?

Gerry T · 12-02-2024 5:43pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121758621#Comment_121758621

They were Israelis, they are involved in the conflict, Israel continues its expansion outside its agreed borders, what do you think would happen ? Look at what Israel does when someone attacks inside their territory.

The attacks on the Israelis (not the Jews) has been condemned by all most everyone on here, me included. That doesn't mean you can't also condemn the Israelis, however bad hamas is, and they are a disgusting terrorist regime, the Israelis are proving to be far worse.

12-02-2024 5:46pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121758179#Comment_121758179

HOW has the penny only dropped now?

It was obvious from 2 weeks into this conflict we were not dealing with rational actors in the IDF and Israeli Govt.

Gerry T · 12-02-2024 5:54pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121758749#Comment_121758749

You're either missing the point or deliberately avoiding it. Israel are killing everything and everyone. The longer this goes on the more the international community will go against them, their response is neither targeted or proportionate. Israel will soon find out, you can't do what you want.

Toeuptony · 12-02-2024 5:58pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121757502#Comment_121757502

This is another lie. You can see from the social media posts of the IDF and their supporters how much hatred they have for all Palestinians and this is coming from the Govt (human animals, Amalek, etc.). This is off the charts now after Oct 7th, but it was there before too.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/20/israelis-cheer-gaza-bombing

There was a poll in November after the large scale bombing had commenced saying that almost 60% of the population felt Israel was not using enough force.

https://time.com/6333781/israel-hamas-poll-palestine/

"Poll results were also hawkish when it came to the use of force in Gaza: 57.5% of Israeli Jews said that they believed the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) were using too little firepower in Gaza, 36.6% said the IDF was using an appropriate amount of firepower, while just 1.8% said they believed the IDF was using too much fire power, while 4.2% said they weren’t sure whether it was using too much or too little firepower."

You state that "Israel, the state, does not want to destroy Palestine". How in God's name (choose whichever one you want) can you say that with a straight face when you see the death and devastation has been cause by Israel since they started their retaliation for Oct 7th?

markodaly · 12-02-2024 6:07pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121758853#Comment_121758853

They were Israelis, they are involved in the conflict

Eh, no they weren't.

They were Australians who happened to be Jewish.

Iscreamkone · 12-02-2024 6:17pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121758893#Comment_121758893

The international community won’t stand on the wall and protect Israel from terror incursions. In fact the UN (UNRWA) was actively involved in the last terror event on Oct 7. There will never be peace with Palestine only limitation of their terror.

NoMoreDonegalTuesdays · 12-02-2024 6:19pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121758179#Comment_121758179

Whether religious or not, Israeli society in general is geared towards extreme hard line ideology, ie. genocidal ideology. The ideology of genocide of the other is indivisible from what Israel is.

Empty slogans about "peace" and "oh, we treat gay people well" and "we're the only the democracy in the Middle East" are intelligence insulting bullshit.

The state of Israel is a colonial project which has genocide of the indigenous people as its raison d'etre.

No wonder Israel is hated. It should be. Frankly anybody who doesn't hate Israel at this point just likes genocide.

aidanodr · 12-02-2024 6:21pm

Interesting developments .. and Qs I myself have asked

https://twitter.com/lindseyhilsum/status/1754612983580221500

https://www.channel4.com/news/israels-evidence-of-unrwa-hamas-allegations-examined

Toeuptony · 12-02-2024 6:24pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121758491#Comment_121758491

It is completely unacceptable and beyond the pale as you said, but I think the threats and intimidation that you refer to here pale in comparison to the deaths of 30K mostly innocent civilians, the severe injuries of more than 70K more innocent victims, the fact that these hostilities have caused many thousands of kids to be made orphans and the total decimation of a majority of the accommodation and infrastructure of Gaza.

Most people here who are arguing in favour of the Palestinian people recognise that the actions of Hamas were horrendous and cannot be condoned in any way (although they can easily be explained looking over the history of the last 75 years). But we also have the objectivity and perspective to see that what Israel have done to Gaza is incomparable to the damage that Hamas caused on Oct 7th and that is why we are calling out Israel.

You have no problem calling out Hamas for their actions, but besides some comments stating that you have always been against the settlements, there has been very little criticism of Israel or their actions, which is pretty indefensible from my perspective.

Sir_Name · 12-02-2024 7:04pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121758998#Comment_121758998

Currently it’s not fact, it’s speculation.

dmcdona · 12-02-2024 7:04pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121758491#Comment_121758491

Whilst unsavoury and very upsetting, I wouldn't categorise that list as "devastating".

Devastating to me is being killed, having my entire family butchered, life changing injuries, starvation, having my home razed to the ground, having the graves of my loved ones bulldozed, being 6 years old in a car with 5 dead relatives , desperate for help, on the phone to the Red Crescent for 3 hours, then when the two medics arrive, for the three of them to be shredded by Israeli tanks and gunfire.

The Palestinians have been harassed for decades, gone into hiding to avoid being killed, businesses destroyed, children less than 12 months old being killed (260 of them).

That is devastating....