Hamas strike on Israel - mod warning in OP updated 19/10/23

deirdremf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121231475#Comment_121231475

I saw that, and unfortunately this single incident could be true.

The 40 beheaded babies was never likely to be true, it was a planted story to stir up emotions - and the world is still waiting for evidence of 40 beheaded babies. All we get is complaints that evidence is requested ...

When you think of it rationally, a village of 760 people is unlikely even to have 40 babies, even if everyone in the village was a rightwing religious haredi nutcase.

gormdubhgorm

This video speculates that the Hamas attack was funded by Iran. As Iran do not like a potential Saudi Arabia, USA, and Israel - network of normalisation treaties.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2xjmelFwJow

GeminiLad

I was clear. Hamas needs to be eradicated first.

The Israeli government is not a murderous regime, contrary to many ignorant beliefs around the world.

If the entity you're fighting are hiding behind their own women and children, who is ultimately responsible?

If you believe Israel should be then there is no need to continue this.

Israel have to act against Hamas, whether it is rockets landing in Israeli territory or the rape and murder of women and children, they have to act. Any other country would too.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121231538#Comment_121231538

People here are absolutely not cheering on the deaths of innocents in bombings.

Hamas provoked this response, it is what they wanted, and they revel in it.

TedBundysDriver

#Gazagenocide now top trending on X.

The world knows. Israel can't hide it's crimes.

SafeSurfer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121231525#Comment_121231525

As despicable, revolting, I just don’t have words to express my abhorrence of those actions by Hamas as reported by i24 News, it doesn’t make their previous story true. However some posters like yourself, won’t acknowledge that what was originally reported was not true.

Gatling

Hopefully this isn't connected a teacher has been stabbed to death this morning and two others suffered serious injuries In an french school this morning,

Yesterday they banned pro Palestinian rallies and at the same time the leader of hamas called for a day of rage against Israels allies, Friday is the traditional day for protests in the Muslim communities

https://news.sky.com/story/teacher-killed-and-several-injured-in-knife-attack-at-school-in-france-reports-12983722

Nermal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121231520#Comment_121231520

On Boards, all conflicts are either identical either to World War II or to Northern Ireland.

Snooker Loopy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121231506#Comment_121231506

I'm a wee bit confused here because when there was the furore over whether Hamas had decapitated the babies or not the point was continually made by the pro-Israel side - and it's a point I agree with in the real sense - that it is irrelevant what method a baby is murdered by, it's still murder.

But the pro-Israel side then completely throws this point out when it comes to the methods by which babies are killed in Gaza. I say killed because I know there are plenty of people who don't consider it murder, though I am definitely not among those people.

TedBundysDriver

IDF terrorists now running an almost continuous propaganda effort on CNN to justify the genocide. In fairness to sky news they are at least attempting to bring some balance.

Sky also saying there are between 16-20k people in hospitals north of the line that can't move.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121231482#Comment_121231482

They have ordered the people in Gaza to move south so that they can flatten Gaza.

Gaza City is not the same as Gaza.

They've asked people to move from Gaza City to the south, so they can militarily engage with Hamas with as limited civilian casualties as possible.

Gatling

@Snooker Loopy But the pro-Israel side then completely throws this point out when it comes to the methods by which babies are killed in Gaza. I say killed because I know there are plenty of people who don't consider it murder, though I am definitely not among those people.

Just when you think it cant get any worse some else comes along with that nonsense

nacho libre

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121231275#Comment_121231275

That's what Nethanyu and his backers claim their ultimate objective is in Gaza to create a "new reality" where by Hamas no longer rule Gaza. They don't really care if moderates were to take over, nothing will fundamentally change for residents in Gaza living under occupation. Bibi cares about his political survival, so he has to be seen to crush Hamas completely. It's debatable, even if this stated aim could be achieved, whether it will be enough for him to survive in the long run.

Snooker Loopy

Can somebody explain to me - what is the point of this war?

What is the aim?

What is the desired end state?

How exactly will that desired end state be achieved?

ArthurDayne

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121231417#Comment_121231417

It's not a binary option between releasing white doves over the Holy Land and the wholesale slaughter and injury of civilians effectively trapped in a tiny parcel of land. The critical point here is that Israel holds all the cards and has the ability to pursue its goals with greater restraint and patience — not obliterating Gaza and its people.

Gaza poses no existential threat to Israel and has no capability to invade Israel. The capability of Hamas to perform operations like last weekend, with the Israeli military fully mobilised, is overwhelmingly limited. Israel has tanks, jets, drones, the Iron Dome, a well-trained and well-equipped army — and the protection and support of the strongest global military alliance on the planet. Israel's neighbouring countries have demonstrated effectively zero desire to attack, aside from militant groups who are highly dangerous but limited.

Israel is not fighting a war for its survival in Gaza right now. It is pursuing an operation to swiftly destroy Hamas — at the expense of renewing in blood another generation of hatred and destabilising the region and indeed the world generally. If you call this a "solution", fair enough, but when the dust settles there are still going to be 2 million Gazans at the end of this little equation who aren't just going to happily forget this and dissolve themselves into thin air.

SafeSurfer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121231622#Comment_121231622

They haven’t “asked” anybody. They have ordered people from their homes before they intensify a bombing campaign that has killed over a thousand people. A bit of honesty please.

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121231594#Comment_121231594

Nope, not merely "as reported" by i24 News. Let's not get into those semantic games again.

They are descriptions of atrocities carried out by Hamas. You agree they are despicable and revolting.

The reports are credible. There is no reason to dispute them. There is no reason to give Hamas the benefit of the doubt.

So you condemn them as an atrocity in fact and in act by Hamas i.e. that Hamas executed and mutilated babies?

If so, I withdraw the remarks in my previous post accusing you of condoning Hamas atrocities.

howiya

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121231622#Comment_121231622

They haven't asked though. They have "ordered" people to move south. What is the legal basis for such an order?

Danzy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121231607#Comment_121231607

Junior b football often gets a mention as well.

deirdremf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121231622#Comment_121231622

Wrong again, my hasbaristic friend. Gaza (town, city or with no further epithet) has existed for centuries. The Gaza Strip has existed since 1948. Khan Younis, for instance, is not in Gaza (Ghaza more correctly), but it is what has become known as the "Gaza Strip".

And no, they haven't "asked" (such a nice, polite, gentle word) the people to move south, they have ordered them out so that they can flatten the rest of the city.

PokeHerKing

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121231607#Comment_121231607

There's not a huge amount of nuance between guerilla warfare and large scale military ops between David and Goliath. scenarios. In fact its always the exact same. The North is just my own countries version but its worldwide similar tale.

Some will claim context counts but as the saying goes, one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter. So lets remove context as its subjective and bias and stick to the black abd white.

Snooker Loopy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121231625#Comment_121231625

I don't get your point? Do you ever watch the footage from Gaza?

Remember when Aleppo was being bombed to bits by Assad's butchers and the Russians in 2016 and all the footage of the hospitals and other civilian targets being bombed, and the footage of mortally injured children being carried in to makeshift medical facilities? The hell of it all?

Were you so callous then?

Or is it merely "when they do it's murder, when we do it's grand?"

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121231637#Comment_121231637

Again Bibi sees Hamas as an asset, a bunch of extreme fundamentalists which prevent anything approaching a Palestinian state, it also gives him the excuse to execute at will in the West Bank and continue the land grab.

The idea like you suggests he and his party want moderate governance and relations with Gaza is illogical and not in their interest.

SafeSurfer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121231651#Comment_121231651

Of course I absolutely condemn those atrocities by Hamas as I have done so previously many, many times.

Now do you acknowledge that the media stories that Hamas decapitated 40 babies were untrue?

TedBundysDriver

Make no mistake about it, America has now zero credibility on the world stage. By deciding to stand on Israeli terrorists side and support them as they commit genocide they are now in the same basket as the Russians.

Long Sean Silver

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121231619#Comment_121231619

the IDF propaganda machine is on full throttle. they learned well from Goebbels, but they cannot see the tragic irony of this.

m2_browning

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2023_Israel%E2%80%93Hamas_war#Foreign_and_dual-national_casualties

so one Irish dead and unknown missing

And we still have people here cheering and supporting the terrorists who are killing their countrymen and innocent people and started this latest round of bullshit

deirdremf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121231637#Comment_121231637

Within Israel, voices have already been raised about the lack of readiness. People are already blaming Nathan Yahoo. He is toast as soon as any semblance of rationality comes about. He is hardly going to worry about murdering more Palestinians in order to survive, and he and a great number of other Zionists have never hidden their view that Palestinians are untermensch.

TedBundysDriver

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121231640#Comment_121231640

"The goal is an endless war, not a successful war"

Danzy

Woman arrested in Brighton by counter terrorism police at a pro Hamas march, people tearing down the kidnapped posters in London.

It's hard for us here to conceptualise what the Palestinian cause has become dominated by.

Ultra fascist theological fundamentalist death cult might come close.

People think that the Palestinian cause of the 70s, with a socialist leaning still exists. It doesn't. That was the product of western educated Palestinians taking Western concepts of State, nation, socialism and jamming them on top. They only resonated so far.

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121231643#Comment_121231643

I'd be concerned about a shift in the commentary.

It has moved from Israel's 9/11 to Israel's Pearl Harbour and now they have demanded an entire City be evacuated.

Long Sean Silver

oh dear! this day will go down in infamy

nacho libre

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121231683#Comment_121231683

What Idea? I said that was the official line to justify the invasion. He cares about his political survival. In the original post you quoted I stated: Hamas and Israel don't want peace with each other. They both give each other reason to exist. So we are in effect in agreement.

taratee

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121231703#Comment_121231703

It's beyond bizarre isn't it. Can't wrap my head around the Hamas/Palestine love-in that we are witnessing. They'd have no time for us, or our values as people. Hard to see any sort of peaceful end to all of this. If Israel walks away from this now, it's a massive win for Hamas, and they'll do the exact same thing again in a few weeks and months. If Israel continues with it's attack on Palestine, then we are back to square one.

GeminiLad

Or fight battles with Hamas in and amongst thr civilian population.

What do you propose Israel do?

They have to eliminate Hamas, don't they?

TedBundysDriver

Israeli terrorists now attacking funerals. Yes this is true.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/10/12/palestinian-man-son-attending-funeral-procession-in-west-bank-shot-dead

Killing innocents at funerals, this is the righteous side according to many. The reality is that there is no righteous side.

As a European citizen, I feel it's very very dangerous to be throwing the weight of support behind Israel. There are no good sides in this battle. Just lots of innocent civilians.

Von Der Leyen ordering the Israeli flag to be put on EU buildings will undoubtedly cost lives. A terrible misjudgment. Israel embassies pressuring countries to support them should not be pandered to either. The Israeli Govt are vile. Always have been.

I think Leo is performing above expectations on the message.

deirdremf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121231714#Comment_121231714

Israel's Hiroshima? Although to call it so might besmirch the honour of their biggest ally.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121231612#Comment_121231612

It is horrific. Nobody denies that.

What is Hamas doing to protect their people from the backlash they precipitated ?

They are doing F all, in fact they are actively using their people as targets for propaganda gains. Ghoulish terrorists.

I’m no fan of the Israeli reprisals

Snooker Loopy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121231728#Comment_121231728

How do you eliminate Hamas?

SafeSurfer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121231714#Comment_121231714

It is 9/11 and Pearl Harbour combined

“A spokesperson for the Israel Defense Forces, Lt Col Jonathan Conricus, said it was “by far the worst day in Israeli history”, which, using an American analogy, could be “a 9/11 and a Pearl Harbor wrapped into one”.

jackboy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121231743#Comment_121231743

They will not eliminate Hamas. No matter how many they kill Hamas are going to have greater numbers at the end of this war.

nonyabidness23

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121231637#Comment_121231637

hopefully he gets tossed out him and nutcase buddies, these old cronies are the ones causing alot of the problems, the people pulling strings in the background and fanning flames.

Snooker Loopy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121231740#Comment_121231740

Hamas are ghoulish terrorists and in my view don't give a flying shite for their own people.

But the Israeli response will not diminish support for Hamas, it will only increase it, and collectively punish millions, and create a catastrophe.

What is the aim of this war? Nobody seems to be able to answer.

With a war, if you don't have a clear aim and a clear desired end state, you've failed the first test as to why you're waging it.

Danzy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121231750#Comment_121231750

So maybe they need to take the kid gloves off.

What they do need to do is ensure that the next wave of Hamas fighters have to walk several hundred miles to get close to them.

Danzy

The attack in France is now known to by a Pro Palestinian, presumably the teacher was Jewish but they tend to view everyone outside their group that way.

nonyabidness23

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121231728#Comment_121231728

Be interesting to see if people hold the same energy about eliminating hamas "at all costs" when all is said and done and people can see the true destruction and death of innocent men women and children.

The cure is vastly worse than the poison in this case.

The real issue here was Israeli defenses were a disgrace had they did there job, this would never have happened to either side it would have been a whole lot of dead hamas.

jackboy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121231767#Comment_121231767

That would involve completely ethnically cleansing Gaza which is not going to happen.

nacho libre

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121231708#Comment_121231708

You don't need to convince me about how Likud and their far right ilk view Palestinians. I agree once this is all over it's very unlikely Nethanyu will survive politically.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121231710#Comment_121231710

Was it Dayan who said that?

SafeSurfer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121231724#Comment_121231724

Great 2nd post. Welcome to Boards.