Hamas strike on Israel - mod warning in OP updated 19/10/23

Sudden Valley

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121864338#Comment_121864338

Well at least you seem to support the idea of a ceasefire, i suppose. You have criticized Hamas and Egypt (fair enough) and Ireland (bizarrely) in the your last few posts but seem to be coy about criticizing the country that is killings kids at the moment.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121864413#Comment_121864413

It's Walter Mitty stuff. Going on about other countries not doing enough. As if the likes of the Iranian military could just go and fly a load of their planes across Israeli airspace and low above Gaza to do airdrops..................................

Sudden Valley

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121864445#Comment_121864445

I want a ceasefire, now and a negotiation for hostage releases. I want Biden to veto military aid packages to Israel and support UN ceasefire votes. That you think that makes me want Palestinians to suffer and makes me worse than Israel which is literally killing kids shows me how confused your thinking is. You are really displaying what your principles are.

circadian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121864461#Comment_121864461

Hyperbole.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121864445#Comment_121864445

Well actually Ukraine did close its borders. People needed permission to get out. Men were prohibited from leaving unless they got permission. And the EU Directive was not invoked until a few weeks after the initial invasion.

So in your warped view of the world, no blame attributes to the Russians. Any atrocity committed during the first few weeks can be blamed on the EU, and the later ones can be attributed to the Ukrainians themselves.

It's really mental. Almost cultish.

Sudden Valley

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121864535#Comment_121864535

People who dont want civilians to die and want the hostages released are not necessarily leftists. Do you just lazily paint anyone not agreeing with you as Leftists?

Are you not thousands of miles away from this conflict too?

I want aid to get to them , and Egypt should be criticized for their actions but what matters to Palestinians also is not to be killed indiscriminately.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121864601#Comment_121864601

Good man. In with the strawmen again (Biden). The last resort of someone who knows deep down they have no logic to back up what they are saying.

Some day you might look back at your position and be ashamed of what you supported and advocated for. Maybe you will and maybe you won't.

And yes, people needed permission to leave Ukraine. As I said. Some got permission and left. Others didn't.

circadian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121864535#Comment_121864535

LEFTISTS! IT'S ALL THE THE LEFTISTS FAULT! EVEN WHEN THE ISRAELIS ARE BOMBING EVERYTHING IN SIGHT I KNEW IT WAS DOZE LEFTISTS!

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121864634#Comment_121864634

I think that if the IDF tweeted that it can't do airdrops because Irish military fighter jets have forced it to ground its cargo planes, it would be getting repeated on here as being gospel

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121864642#Comment_121864642

How is it that you don't know the meaning of the words "far left ideologies"?

circadian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121864642#Comment_121864642

"Anyone that disagrees with me is an extreme left wing headbanger that is directly making the lives of Palestinians unbearable by...." checks notes "questioning what the Israelis are doing"

nacho libre

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121863875#Comment_121863875

Oh the likes of Hamas would care along with the Israeli right. You might not want to acknowledge it , but the irony is both need each other to justify the existence and policies of the other. Which is why the likes of Bibi is on record as stating we need to prop up Hamas to stifle the PA to thwart a two state solution. You maybe correct that some outside actors would still seek to harm Israel, but they would have far less support to draw on if Israel didn't do things as alluded to by another poster that defy and aggravate even their closest alies. Conflicts don't happen in a vacuum, but you seem keen on not acknowledging that, as it would might mean holding both sides to account.

circadian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121864682#Comment_121864682

Mental to think that you're putting some sort of political slant on people wanting the mass slaughter of civilians to stop because of some perceived ability to have prisoners released, especially when the perpetrators have clearly shown a complete lack of regard what anyone else thinks and will, in all liklihood continue on with the same ferocity, if not more, should the prisoners be released.

Yes, Hamas should release the prisoners. Also yes, Israel should stop the complete destruction of Gaza.

A closed mind my hole. You're unwilling to see this for what it is. The Israeli government has always and continues to be an aggessor in the region. It is little more than a bully who provokes and when they get hit, claim the victim and then throw the kitchen sink at anyone in their way, be it women, children, the disabled, press, UN workers, it doesn't matter.

boetstark

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121864495#Comment_121864495

Nothing in your wishlist for the elimination of hamas ?

As long as hamas and others exist and a significant portion of Palestinians support them either directly or indirectly , there will never be peace.

circadian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121864833#Comment_121864833

I'm not the one spluttering about leftists or far right.

Sudden Valley

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121864858#Comment_121864858

I want Hamas eliminated but not at the cost of 50k civilians as that will just result in the next Hamas being created.

The Palestinians will only continue to support entities like Hamas as long as they are allowed to live in squalor and are treated badly by the Israeli state. You just have to look what is happening in the West Bank to understand that many Hamas's will be created in the future as long as the situation doesnt change in Israel/Palestine.

Plutarch

Not one Israeli will be charged with war crimes, not one will see the inside of an ICC court. The court has been set up to protect US interests and client states.

Francie Barrett

Lots of people are quoting the Palestinian casualty numbers, but those come from Hamas, who would naturally want to inflate women and children deaths.

Who knows what the real number of dead is, but based on the above the Hamas claims make no sense.

Sudden Valley

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121866635#Comment_121866635

So you don't believe 10s of thousands have died? How many do you then believe have died? I haven't read of many nations disputing these figures.

Wolf359f

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121866635#Comment_121866635

Historically they have been accurate. The US believe the figures are so high it warrants an immediate ceasefire, the figures are so high the ICJ is investigating a claim of genocide against Israel.

Even Israel has mentioned them in the context of saying 1 in 3 deaths are Hamas and also they have killed 10k Hamas fighters.

So either the figures are broadly accurate or everybody is lying including Israel.

The whole world have accepted the extremely high death toll of innocent lives, apart from you? Now that doesn't make sense.

end of the road

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121864535#Comment_121864535

egypt isn't engaging in a blockade, it's israel who is engaging in a blockade.

end of the road

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121866635#Comment_121866635

chances are that the number is actually higher then claimed, as we don't know how many people are buried under rubble.

remember whatever about hamas, israel are a proven lier on absolutely everything, so cannot be trusted either under any circumstance.

nachouser

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121866635#Comment_121866635

Francie vs Reuters.

Good man.

Francie Barrett

Too many people to reply to above.

The only source for the number of Palestinian dead is from Hamas, the side who are fighting Israel. They are claiming that 70% of the 30,000 dead are women and children. Presumably the other 30% are men. Given that there are only 40k Hamas fighters (Gaza population is 2.2M), most of the men who are dying you'd expect to be non-combatants. The Hamas numbers suggest that only a tiny number of that 30k dead are fighters, maybe 1,000 or so.

What are the conclusions? Are the Israeli's sparing the Hamas fighters and targeting their women and children instead? Are the Hamas fighters hiding and letting the women and children be used as human shields?

The Hamas claims don't make sense.

Wolf359f

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121867172#Comment_121867172

That's pretty much the jist of it. It's accepted that the Hamas figures are broadly accurate.

Why would the US be quoting them if they were extremely inaccurate? Aid agencies on the ground in Gaza don't seem to be questioning the figure. Very very few people are questing the civilian death toll. Why is this being rehashed?

The issue is the figures Israel provide for Hamas fighters killed. They say 10k, so as I mentioned before the math only works if Israel see any adult male as a Hamas member. Which judging by the way they indiscriminately shoot people including hostages, it may very well be the case. I honestly don't believe Israel have a clue how many actual Hamas fighters they have killed.

You don't have the ICJ agreeing to proceed with a genocide case on the back on a couple of civilian deaths.

SeanW

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121864402#Comment_121864402

Two huge differences between Mariupol and Gaza:

1) Russia started that war and is thus responsible for its consequences, and Hamas started the war on the 7th of October.

2) The problem in Mariupol was that the city was surrounded in full by Russians, at the time the theatre was bombed cities like Kyiv and Lviv were relatively safe and AFAIK borders with other countries (e.g. Moldova, Romania, Poland etc) were open to Ukrainians at that point. By contrast, Israel is not stopping anyone from leaving the Gaza strip to go to Egypt for example. But whereas EU countries opened their borders to Ukrainians, Arab countries are doing SFA for Palestinians.

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121866635#Comment_121866635

^ this is modern day equivalent of Holocaust denial

Plutarch

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121866805#Comment_121866805

Not one Israeli will see the inside of a court. They can conduct all the investigations they want. The court was set up to protect the post WW2 liberal order of which Isreal is the jewel in the centre of the crown. Isreal could attack a US warship and the US wouldn't do anything about it. Blinken is effectively Israeli.

Francie Barrett

Hours after the hearing, however, Pentagon spokeswoman Sabrina Singh refuted Austin’s estimate of the deaths of women and children on the basis that it had come from the Gaza Ministry of Health rather than US intelligence.

“We cannot independently verify these Gaza casualty figures,” said Singh.

The Americans cannot verify the Palestinian claims

nachouser

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121867172#Comment_121867172

Reuters, dude.