Hamas strike on Israel - mod warning in OP updated 19/10/23

ELM327

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122222730#Comment_122222730

Look at the palestinian olympic team from 1936. Notice anything?
Or the israeli coins and artifacts discovered from before 0AD? In fact, there never was a state of palestine. There was a british colony from the end of WW1 until 1947 that was called the british mandate of palestine, however even that had a substantial jewish population. Before the british there was the ottoman empire, which had a province referred to as palestine, but again not a sovereign state. Before that there were various islamic dynasties and the christian crusades back to the time of the romans and greeks, where there was a state of israel.

Also important to note that Israel is not Jewish only, in fact it is the only secular state in the region. And the only state in the region where you can be any religion, gender, sexuality etc without fear of punishment or death.

Gerry T

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122222850#Comment_122222850

Palestine, whether you like it or not exists, UK/USA carve off a piece of Palestine to form two states, the remaining Palestinian area objects and one piece - Israel is recognised by UK/USA and the other Palestine, isn't. Today 144 countries recognise it and that number continues to grow.

You correctly demonstrate that the local area is a Hodge podge of many people, Christian, Jew, Muslim. So why do Israeli Jewish people think its ok to murder everyone in Palestine and take their land, the Land grab has being going on since Israel was formed.

Ireland is a secular country, but we are rooted in Christianity. Its in our constitution, it controls our education system. In Israel its ok for a Jew outside of Israel to go to ocupied Palestine and take land, property.. all free. I've never heard of Israel offering this to an Muslim or a Christian ? Yes there are many types of people in Israel, but in its heart its Jewish.

Prior to recent events I would have mixed feelings for the territory, but the way Netanyahu is conducting himself that's firmly changed. If Israeli people don't stand up to him and oust him, then their hands are also covered in blood.

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122222850#Comment_122222850

 And the only state in the region where you can be any religion, gender, sexuality etc without fear of punishment or death.

keep drinking the Hasbara kool aid.

https://youtu.be/YhMgAVcD6gM?si=g4kZ9z_6qL2I7V-2

https://youtu.be/4G2p3_wa2d0?si=Z0GIDexGPy3Wfams

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/un-rights-office-criticises-israel-over-deaths-500-palestinians-west-bank-2024-06-04/

https://reliefweb.int/report/occupied-palestinian-territory/israel-killed-five-times-many-palestinians-2022-it-killed-same

Does the sleight of hand come from it being the West Bank and not the legally recognized borders of Israel?

well it happens in Israel proper too

https://www.timesofisrael.com/244-arab-community-members-said-killed-in-2023-violence-more-than-double-2022-toll/amp/

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-66594068.amp

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2023/09/08/middleeast/israel-arab-citizens-crime-mime-intl

https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20230530-587-arabs-have-been-killed-in-4-and-a-half-years-due-to-police-inaction-in-occupied-palestine/amp/

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/arab-family-five-shot-dead-crime-rates-israel-soar-2023-09-27/

https://m.jpost.com/israel-news/article-734812
https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-05-30/ty-article/.premium/anti-lgbtq-violence-spiked-in-israel-during-judicial-overhaul-protests-report-finds/0000018f-c87e-da41-a9cf-d97ef2c50000
https://www.i24news.tv/en/news/israel/society/1679242629-israel-5-fold-increase-in-cases-of-lgbtphobia-in-public-spaces-report
Etc

sock.rocker*

Same posters, same nonsense. Four years later.

ELM327's logic back then was that you can't suppress Palestine because it doesn't exist. Part of his reasoning for it not existing was Ireland not recognising it. So that's one good thing that's changed.

His belief is basically that Israel is a secular state and and any criticism must be because of religious reasons. How very Schrodinger.

markodaly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122222099#Comment_122222099

Hamas was elected once in 07 and since then they control the people, as you say a terrorist group. Meanwhile Netanyahu is re-elected 7 times and has always taken hostages and palestinian land. The Israeli people are complicit in what their country is doing.

If that logic is followed, are the Palestian people also complicit in what Hamas are doing and did? They still enjoy a lot of support. The West Bank cant hold elections because they are afraid of the results.

sock.rocker*

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122223238#Comment_122223238

The average Israeli is more complicit in the actions of Hamas than the average Gazan.

Less than 10% of Gazans alive today voted for Hamas. Half of Gazans are children and the last vote was 18 years ago. Meanwhile, Israelis keep voting for governments which allow billions to be funneled into Gaza so that Hamas can stay in power. They do this so that Palestine can't form a state. They want Hamas there.

Does the average Gazan have any say in all of this? No. The average Israeli? Absolutely.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122222730#Comment_122222730

October 7th Hamas invaded Israel that led to the current situation.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122223344#Comment_122223344

Hamas is strongly supported by Palestinians

https://www.timesofisrael.com/poll-shows-soaring-support-for-hamas-in-west-bank-as-90-say-abbas-should-resign/

https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas-palestinians-opinion-poll-wartime-views-a0baade915619cd070b5393844bc4514

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122223504#Comment_122223504

”I was born on October 7th, the history of the conflict began on October 7th”

pull another. This one is used. Someone just showed a post from 2020 showing this well predates the 7th.

sock.rocker*

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122223550#Comment_122223550

Even if those numbers were reliable, it doesn't change my point. Israel controls water, food, electricity, and money into Gaza. Israel wants Hamas in power there, make sure they stay in power, and so, they control the politics too.

Israelis vote for this because they see cost of peace as being too high. Gazans cannot effect any change while Israelis can. Polls show Israelis blame Netenyahu for October 7th, and they voted for him.

If at some point in the future, there is peace and a two-state solution, it will be because Israelis made it happen, not Gazans. All of it is in the hands of the Israeli voter.

Akrasia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122222518#Comment_122222518

Would you think it was a legitimate target for Hamas to blow up an Israeli School full of parents and children if Hamas knew that an IDF commander was attending their child's school play in the auditorium?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122223689#Comment_122223689

You mean this

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vCWMBvxWKL0&pp=ygUaaGFtYXMgc3VtbWVyIHRyYWluaW5nIGNhbXA%3D

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=cD2FezhJgqA&pp=ygUaaGFtYXMgc3VtbWVyIHRyYWluaW5nIGNhbXA%3D

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=14Nt8U61XXA

Odhinn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122223806#Comment_122223806

I'm quite sure that isn't what he meant at all. Intellectual dishonesty does not further the debate.

Gerry T

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122223238#Comment_122223238

I explained, Israel have had plenty of elections and chances to change its leadership. They haven't, in a democratic country with fair elections. If that Govt kills tens of thousands, kidnaps thousands and steals land, the Israel people are responsible. The people in the west bank elected the Palestine Authority, to the best of my knowledge they haven't killed even 1 baby. Even when Israel controlled 60% of it, it now must control 90%.

Hamas are a terrorist group and will act in Gaza, west bank, Israel and anywhere else. They were elected 18yrs ago and since they they act like a dictatorship. Do you think the Palestinian people are responsible for what Hamas do ? if so can you explain that to me.

Don't forget when Hamas were down and nearly out, Israel gave billions to Hamas to prop it up and prevent a unified Palestine and a 2 state solution. Hamas are the terrorist they are today, Because of Israeli funding. Takes one to know one I presume.

But yes Hamas will prob grow now, why wouldn't they when Palestinian peoples children, siblings, parents are being murdered.

scottser

Israel has no democratic credentials right now. It is in a self-declared war and operates under an emergency war cabinet, which concentrates authority under Netenbastard and Gallant. It's going to stay that way to keep them out of jail and in charge.

Fr D Maugire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122222850#Comment_122222850

Any chance Pro-Israeli supportes could stop posting absolute guff when it comes to history. When the British backed the creation of a Jewish state in Palestine with the Balfour declaration in 1917, the Jewish population of what became mandatory Palestine was 10%. That is not a substantial minority. It increased thereafter because well, the British had promised them a state, encouraged and protected European settlers who moved to the region post WW1, the whole reason for the creation of mandatory Palestine. By 1948, the Jewish population was 33%, but they held only 6-8% of the land and apart from one or two towns, had no majority anywhere in Mandatory Palestine, but under the UN partition plan gained over 60% of the land of mandatory Palestine.

The common thread running through all the decisions made regarding Palestine, whether Zionism itself, the Balfour declaration, Sykes-Picot or the UN partition plan, all were made by outsiders and none took into consideration the wishes of the actual people who mzde up the democratic majority in Mandatory Palestine. If you believe in democracy and the rights of self-determination, the whole underlying problem is easy to see.

Yes Palestine never existed as a state, but the Arabs in Palestine did not want a Palestinian state post WW1, they wanted a pan-Arab state based on Greater Syria(Syria, Lebanon, Palestine, Jordan). The Arabs came into WW1 on the promise that they would be granted such a state, but the British gaslit them the whole way and Sykes-Picot split the region into the various mandates, again putting the interests of Britain/France ahead of the native population. The Palestinians started to seek their own state once they realised a pan-Arab state was not an option.

As for the oft trotted out guff of there being an Israeli state 2000 years previously. There is no other people in the World who got to create a state on the territory of another people on the basis that their ancestors lived there 2000 years previously, whilst simply ignoring the wishes of the native population. It is the most asinine of asinine arguments.

batman75

Looks like Israel is in trouble in the north. Hezbollah are ratcheting up their attacks. It seems to be slowly dawning on the Israeli public that Netanyahu doesn't care about the hostages in Gaza. Only his political survival motivates him now. The longer he survives politically the more he kicks his legal troubles in the distance.

If Netanyahu was smart he would evacuate all troops from Gaza immediately and allow the area to be governed by Hamas or another elected Palestinian body. Israel should be made pay for the reconstruction of Gaza given that it obliterated it. No Israeli ambassador should be allowed back into Ireland until such time as Gaza, The West Bank are free from Israeli interference and until those Arabs who live in Israel are afforded equal rights under the constitution. Sadly Israel is an apartheid state. We have been fed the myth that Israel is the only true democracy in the Middle East.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122224510#Comment_122224510

If Netanyahu was smart he would evacuate all troops from Gaza immediately and allow the area to be governed by Hamas

You're in favour of Gaza been governed by terrorists then. At least you admit it.

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122224582#Comment_122224582

Netanyahu is.

https://www.businessinsider.com/israel-security-forces-escorted-suitcases-cash-hamas-qatar-report-2023-12?amp

batman75

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122224582#Comment_122224582

Israel created Hamas as a counter balance to the PLO. When elections were held in Gaza Hamas won. But the Israelis and American's didn't like the outcome. Israel is committing genocide in Gaza. Hamas's actions on 7th October were wrong but inevitable given the open air prison created by Israel.

sock.rocker*

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122224582#Comment_122224582

Israel is in favour of this, and they want this so there is no two-state solution. The pro-Palestinian posters in here would rather Palestine Authority rule Gaza so Palestine could become a recognised state and then the settlements stop.

These are basic facts. Do you acknowledge them?

If you had power, would you choose a two-state solution with something like PA, or would you pursue Israel's long-running policy of propping up Hamas to prevent this?

Grayson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122222850#Comment_122222850

Ireland never existed as a country until after independence.

ToweringPerformance

Zionists have slaughtered children in a school overnight in Gaza. The Biden Whitehouse continues to support Israel with weapons to carry out this genocide.

https://news.sky.com/story/israel-says-jets-targeting-hamas-compound-have-hit-a-school-in-gaza-13148252

Gerry T

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122223504#Comment_122223504

Did the world begin on 7th Oct, is it faintly possible that what happened on 7/10 was a retalliation to far worse crimes against the palestinians.

What Hamas did was a crime and they should be punished.

Now repeat after me...what israel are doing is a crime and they should be punished.

Fuascailteoir

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122224582#Comment_122224582

Both Israel and Gaza are currently being governed by wanted criminals

sock.rocker*

It is another tragic morning in the central area of Gaza, particularly in Nuseirat refugee camp, where an overnight attack targeted a UN-run school that was housing hundreds of displaced Palestinian families.

In addition, a residential house was completely destroyed. At least 39 Palestinians have been reported killed in those attacks. We’ve been talking to a number of families at the hospital. They say they did not receive any prior warning ahead of the attack.

And people here in this thread actually defend attacks like this. You walk past people on the street every day who support this stuff. It's revolting.

sock.rocker*

Will we bomb a school? Will we bomb a UN building? Will we bomb a refugee camp? Why not all three?

The IDF are practically playing a game of committing the most horrific war crimes possible and they are supported globally by the biggest scum on the planet.

Rezident

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122222990#Comment_122222990

Just not true. Obviously Israeli Jewish people do not think that is ok. Obviously, as everyone who has ever been there knows and can see with their own eyes.

When the Palestinians keep starting wars and attacking Jews (from the first day the State of Israel was founded) then there will be war. And the losers will lose land, among other things. Same reason the Golan Heights was part of Syria, Syria stated a war with Israel, lost the war, and lost the Golan Heights to Israel.

So don't start wars. Palestinians fired 4,500 rockets at Israel in one day, murdered and raped over a thousand people! You are wasting your time with these people. Ireland never starts wars with its neighbours (and they're the British!) If Russian eventually loses to Ukraine, I think Ukraine is more than entitled to keep a sliver of Russian land as a buffer against future invasions.

Who started the war? The same warmongers who start every war in the region. Radical Islamists in a virtual death cult. The same fanatics who merrily strapped a bomb to a 26 year old Palestinian girl and sent her in to Israel just to blow up an 81 year old Jewish man at a bus stop (and blow up the Palestinian girl of course). You can't reason with these people. Most Irish people have virtually no understanding of the situation, sure how could they? They have never even been or Israel and the Palestinian territories.

People who think it is just the same as Northern Ireland and the British are incorrect. Obviously.

Rezident

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122224047#Comment_122224047

The Palestinian people voted for Hamas, Hamas won the election. When Hamas attacked the Palestinian Authority and killed all those Palestinians in the Battle of Gaza, they could not have done it without the support of significant portions of Palestinians and everyone in Gaza knows they were throwing Palestinians off buildings and about their other war crimes.

When Hamas have been hiding from the Israeli army in Gaza for the last 8 months, where do you think they have been hiding? Who has been sheltering them? The Palestinian people of course. Who else? Israel hit a group of 20-30 Hamas fighters, in a UN school. Nobody at the school knew there were 20-30 Hamas fighters there?

Mohamed Deif, commander of Hamas' military wing, who rose to prominence for killing so many Palestinians even for being suspected of collaborating with Jews (how many were innocent or indeed just set up by Israel?), is known as 'The Guest'. Why is one of the most ruthless terrorists in the world called 'The Guest'? Because he stays with a different Palestinian family every night.

Look at the videos, if you have the stomach for it, if not, you may have the wilful blindness for it: after the Palestinians killed all those kids at the music festival and they took one of the girls, 22 year old Shani Louk, a strikingly beautiful girl. After, what we can all imagine that these Hamas beasts did to her, they stripped her body naked and paraded her through the streets of Palestine on the back of a truck to publicly display their 'work'. Now look, if you can, at the reactions from all the Palestinian people in the streets. Look at the women cheering! What are the Palestinians cheering for exactly?

nacho libre

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122222543#Comment_122222543

The point is Bibi doesn't really care about the hostages , pressure on him may increase if hostages are released but continuing the war suits him. He has stated clearly that one of his goals is the destruction of Hamas. How can this be truly achieved when you brutalise people through collective punishment.? You in effect create a breeding ground for the likes of Hamas to recruit embittered and traumatised people . Also as long as the Hamas leadership remain untouched in Qatar to raise funds Hamas will not be defeated . US intelligence has concluded the same thing. One other thing ,there was no Irish state at one point so going by your logic does that mean that British occupation and violence against Irish people was acceptable? As you know there was no official Israeli state at one point either. So what is your view on the likes of Irgun in light of this stance?