Hamas strike on Israel - mod warning in OP updated 19/10/23

markodaly

This makes interesting reading for the art of diplomacy, influence and soft power.

The Zionists played the game very well in 1947, the Arabs, not so much.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Special_Committee_on_Palestine

 When visiting Jewish areas, committee members were warmly welcomed, often with flowers and cheering crowds. When the committee visited Tel Aviv, a public holiday was declared.[13] The streets were decorated with flags and posters and crowds surrounded the delegates during their tour of the city. 

Contrasted to

By contrast, committee members were ignored and faced hostility in Arab areas. During UNSCOP visits to Arab areas, they were often met with empty streets, as well as locals who refused to answer their questions and even fled restaurants when they arrived. In one instance, when committee members visited a school in Beersheba, the pupils were instructed not to look at the visitors. During a visit to an Arab village in the Galilee

the entire population was evacuated except for children who remained behind and cursed at the visitors. 

To be honest, the saying is correct.

"Palestinians never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity"

The Zionists at the time were fighting for their own homeland. But the Arab leadership seemed aloof, out of touch and outright stupid in their strategy.

Once a decision was made, and voted on in the UN, they cried crocodile tears but then went to war.

Like the Israelis won the PR war with the UNSCOP, they also won that war.

markodaly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122453321#Comment_122453321

They boycottes because it was only proposing a single solution

A two-state solution? Why is that a bad thing? Should a one-state solution have been on the table, in your opinion?

In hindsight do you think the boycott was a terrible miscalculation?

Are you saying that the findings of the UNSCOP were done, dusted and signed off on before any of them visted Palestine?

beyond the the very problematic final outcome

That final outcome being a 2 state solution, a solution more or less supported by everyone, including you?

I dont understand how you can be against a 2 state solution in 1947, but for it now…

markodaly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122452563#Comment_122452563

Sounds ominous, but it could be noise.

The Israelis should be able to handle it though, and have an ace up their sleave with US backing if needs be.

markodaly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122453351#Comment_122453351

We were talking about 1947, the year the UNSCOP visited Palestine.

That is the dataset that is important.

You also don't answer the question in regards to the one-state solution that the Arab delegation wanted and their clear intent to ethnically cleanse hundreds of thousands of Jews from the land.

An inconvienient truth?

A 2 state solution was the best outcome for all, but the Arabs refused to accept their loss and here we are… 80 years later and they still have not accepted it.

PeggyShippen

The Americans are the big Daddy of the allies but let's give the UK some credit..Alot of the high altitude surveillance is done by the RAF out of cyprus including one by Cork Pilot mate of mine. Cyprus is actually central to all this. Aircraft carriers are great but to have that huge base at RAF Akrotiri is a big logistical advantage.

markodaly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122453361#Comment_122453361

I never ever said a 2 state solution was a bad thing.

The main premise of the UNSCOP and UN Resolution 181(II) was a 2 state solution.

You seem intent on trying to discredit it.

It was half baked and this is fundamental to why here are so many issues today .

What exactly about it was half-baked?

Let's say we agree that the UNSCOP was always going to advocate a 2 state solution/parition, what in your mind should have happened instead?

It seems to me that your main argument is that the plan was not 'perfect' (no plan is), but we have no evidence that the Arab delegation would have accepted partition and a 2 state solution anyhow. We know what the Arabs wanted, (One state majority rule and kicking out all the new Jewish immigrants) and it appears they were dogmatic, uncompromising, and without alternatives. This is an issue even today, Arafat refused a 2 state solution for example.

The more I read about the Arab attitudes of the time, it reminds me of dogmatic Ulster Unionist ala Ian Paisley.

tayto lover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122453389#Comment_122453389

Clap, clap, clap.

The Israelis are indeed backed by the US, UK and many other countries BUT it doesn't make their brutality any less hard to take and never will. Might is not always right. At least decent people have seen the Israeli crimes at first hand and the UN and the ICC have called them out for their crimes against humanity. Murdering 17,000 children and as many again women is something to be ashamed of and not lauded as you seem to be doing. Israel is a basket case.

markodaly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122453437#Comment_122453437

You keep ignoring my questions in regards to the Arab position, especially when it came to only accepting a one-state solution and their desire to ethnically cleanse Jews from the land.

tayto lover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122453483#Comment_122453483

The only people being cleansed from their lands are Palestinians, brutally and illegally so. And it has been happening for many years.

markodaly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122453480#Comment_122453480

And the 2 state solution forced the Palestine populations out of their homees and turned them into refugees at the stroke of a pen.

So in essence, a one-state solution was the preferable solution in 1947?

This appears to be your stated position, but today, you advocate a 2 state solution.

It appears you want it every which way.

markodaly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122453437#Comment_122453437

The Ad-hoc committee rejected the subcommittee 2 plan, largely, I presume, because they still advocated a single one-state solution.

The Ad Hoc Committee rejected the subcommittee 2 resolution to constitute a unitary Palestinian state and accepted the proposed partition plan of subcommittee 1

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_Hoc_Committee_on_the_Palestinian_Question

markodaly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122453518#Comment_122453518

So, if you are not for a 2-state solution, what in your mind is the solution going forward long term?

markodaly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122453528#Comment_122453528

I am asking because your argument appears to be conflicted.

You appear to favour the one state solution adopted by the Arabs in 1947, but you also say a 2 state solution wouldn't be bad either…. which is it?

If for example, the Ad-hoc subcommittee accepted the Arab plan, where there was a federal unity state (under Arab majority rule) there would be some sort of utopian peace there at the moment, ignoring the chatter and context that many Arabs wanted to ethnically cleanse Jews from the region….

Balagan1

Has Miggeldy lost it entirely with that "Best Wishes" to Iran message?

Spudmonkey

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122449594#Comment_122449594

Funny. Lists out (correctly) multiple states with Human Right violations whilst leaving out a glaring omission, and here. Oh and here. I mean even the Times of Israel is reporting yesterday on humans rights violations. Strange for some lads here to be banging on about Human Rights Issues in one camp only? I mean you raise the issues of genocide being committed and you're a Hamas supporter. All part of the deflection strategy though right?

Spudmonkey

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122450415#Comment_122450415

Christ man at least try to hide the racism. Generic Arabs taking in generic Arabs.

Montage of Feck

Germany took in over 10m of her generic refugees after their failed war of aggression.

tayto lover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122453708#Comment_122453708

At least he hangs around even if he gets things confused. There's another lad on here who posts one-liners and then runs back into the bushes to hide.

tayto lover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122453861#Comment_122453861

https://www.timesofisrael.com/un-report-says-palestinian-detainees-in-israel-subjected-to-torture-mistreatment/

That is one very disturbing article. The regions only Democracy ???

Odhinn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122450415#Comment_122450415

Iranians in the main aren't Arabs. Don't let that stop ye though.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122454033#Comment_122454033

Neither in Language nor ethnicity. Many ignorant people don't realise that though. They just have a generic idea of lads sitting around a campfire in the desert with AK47's and plotting death to the Infidel

Bobeagleburger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122454033#Comment_122454033

Lol, it was a well thought out post. Typed with a forehead.

pjohnson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122453971#Comment_122453971

Compared to the repeated posts of "look at the history only I truly understand" and "dead children" theres not much room for discussion unless its to pile on Israel. It was covered yesterday Weepsies issues go back to the states founding.

It'd be expecting daily discussion in the Trump/FG/Gangland/Refugee thread. Its good to pop in and check the new narrative but daily, theres better to be doing.

But cheers anyway. That was still not much variety.

end of the road

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122453285#Comment_122453285

like how israel hammered them in 2006 even though israel got their arses handed to them?

between gaza and hesbala and iran america and britain aren't going to be able to provide israel with sufficient weaponry and aid this time, especially while correctly helping ukrain and their own stocks are low.

end of the road

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122453298#Comment_122453298

israel doesn't need to go anywhere, it just needs to get back within it's borders and actually behave like the state it claims to be.
israel don't have enough nukes to nuke all those cities and those countries have enough cheap equipment to cause similar if not more damage to israel in return.
you have also got russia and china who may want to protect their middle east allies.
actually apparently support for israel among younger americans is not anywhere near as high as it is among older americans, so i wouldn't be sure of continued unquestioned american backing for israel going forward through the decades.
interesting times ahead for sure.

thatsdaft

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122454151#Comment_122454151

Any discussion is hijacked by those who can not comprehend that in this clusterf**k there is no good and bad guys and both sides are worse than each other.

That’s when not busy constructing elaborate whataboutism involving mental gymnastics or constructing strawmen scenarios (as if reality is not daft enough)

… or defending and shedding tears for absolute evil scum (may they rot in hell) whose only accomplishment is to pour oil into the fire

Rezident

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122453868#Comment_122453868

If you have ever been to the Palestinian territories (and most of you have not and clearly do not know what you are talking about), you would know that the children in the streets play a game called 'Arabs and Jews'. Even the Palestinians don't identify as 'Palestinians', they identify as Arabs, part of the 450m Arabs in the region, many of whom are hellbent on killing all the Jews. Why don't the kids play 'Palestinians and Jews'.

'Palestine' is just the sharp edge of the Arab stick to kill all Jews at any cost, even, and often preferably, at the cost of their own women and children instead of the "men" who hide underground in their billion dollar tunnels (that's where the money Ireland gives them goes) and who hide behind women and children human shields. And Irish people support that. Because it's exactly the same as Northern Ireland isn't it?

That is all this is about and all it was ever about. There is no 'Palestine'. When was Palestine founded? Where is Palestine? What is the capital of Palestine? What does Palestine stand for, other than hating and killing Jews?

Sudden Valley

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122454151#Comment_122454151

When kids are being killed then that will dominate the discussion. Or when soldiers are sexually assaulting prisoners. It's not like the killings have stopped so of course they are going to be discussed. Maybe if Israel stopped doing these things we would stop discussing it.

nacho libre

A bomb smuggled into a building two months prior in a building supposedly protected by the Guards. It just gets worse for the Iranians.

If the Americans know what Iran is going to do next, then it suggests they have a mole or two in the room where the Ayatollah held the security meeting. Either that or Iran is so desperate to avoid a war that someone is leaking the discussions to the Americans so they can minimise the threat to Israel. The Iranians are trying to look strong to a domestic audience while behind the scenes likely doing all they can to avoid a full scale war. If you notice too Nasrallah in his rant didn't mention all out war, rather a new phase. The reality is if Hezbollah killed the head of the IDF. War would be declared within hours by Israel.

The killing of Haniyeh probably wouldn't have gone ahead if Israel calculated Iran would go to war over it. They know well Iran is desperate to avoid a war. It also proves the nonsense about the leadership being a death cult that craves martyrdom- the leadership are very much pragmatic and into self preservation- otherwise, if the likes of SeanW was right, the Iranians would have gone to war with Israel long before now and welcomed their inevitable destruction as the path to martyrdom. They avoid it because they actually love life more than death.

end of the road

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122453822#Comment_122453822

no, he simply recognises that regardless of his feelings on the iranian regime, they have a right and a duty to defend against israel's aggression and expansionism.