Hamas strike on Israel - mod warning in OP updated 19/10/23

JP Liz V1

My heart goes out at seeing the guy having to burying his twins and wife, heartbreaking

https://news.sky.com/story/gaza-four-day-old-twins-killed-in-airstrike-as-father-went-to-get-birth-certificates-13196395

Spudmonkey

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122499656#Comment_122499656

This is shocking.

I've seen posts today where a father was presented with an 18kg bag of body parts to bury in place of his son, other footage of a man supporting (unfortunately for him, still alive) a guy into a medical centre with both his arms in bits.

Pretty horrific **** OP have been at the past few days.

nacho libre

Ben Givir causing trouble again:

https://english.alarabiya.net/News/middle-east/2024/08/13/us-calls-far-right-israeli-minister-s-prayer-at-al-aqsa-unacceptable-

tayto lover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122499656#Comment_122499656

But but but Hamas were hiding behind their little crib.

Brussels Sprout

I see that Ilhan Omar won her primary last night (56-43). Interestingly, AIPAC and other pro-Israel lobby groups did not target her in the same manner that they successfully targeting other squad members Jamal Bowman and Cori Bush. Given that Omar only won her last primary by a whisker and that she has been one of the strongest and consistent critics of Israel in the House I found it perplexing that they didn't go after her.

Here's an excerpt from a Guardian article about that:

In the wake of the 7 October attacks, and as Israel escalated its retaliatory war, Omar was among the first in Congress to call for a ceasefire. She has spoken out in support of the university encampments in solidarity with Gaza. Her daughter was suspended from Barnard College for taking part.

These together would seem to make Omar a natural target of pro-Israel groups, but Samuels, a former Minneapolis city councilman has not drawn support from Aipac or its affiliated Super Pac, United Democracy Project. In contrast, UDP dropped more than $20m to unseat Bowman and Bush.

The lobby groups have not said why they have not gotten involved in the Minnesota primary – but it is possible that Omar just did not provide them the fodder.

Despite Aipac’s single-issue focus on Israel, its messaging against other Squad members has not focused on the issue.

During Bowman’s race, his opponent George Latimer focused on Bowman’s vote against Joe Biden’s landmark infrastructure bill that numerous progressive lawmakers withheld support from in an attempt to build leverage to secure other progressive provisions. The idea that Bowman and Bush, who also voted against the infrastructure bill, had not played ball with Democrats became a centerpiece of Latimer’s campaign against Bowman and Wesley Bell’s against Bush.

In her primary campaign, meanwhile, Omar has emphasized the money that she has been able to direct to her district and even featured Joe Biden in an ad. “Congresswoman Omar, I wanna thank you for being here – you never stop working to level the playing field,” Biden says in the ad.

Additionally, Mark Mellman, the director of Democratic Majority for Israel – a pro-Israel group that also weighed in against Bush and Bowman – has cited the “vulnerability” of a candidate as a key factor informing whether the group gets involved in a race. Omar is popular in her district; internal campaign polling recently found her leading Samuels 60% to 33%.

fly_agaric

Suppose I am not saying anything that is not very obvious, but US democracy is in right state with these "superPACs" (generally, not just the pro Israel one mentioned above).

The USs ultra rich individuals, giant MNCs, [possibly] even foreign oligarchs, despots, and autocrats all seem to get a strong spoke in it via their wealth, above the heads of an ordinary US voter of average income who really just gets a ballot!

They badly need to get most of this money taken out of their politics, think it could solve many of the problems they have.

nacho libre

https://www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/aug/14/israeli-forces-in-gaza

The Israeli apologists here must be digusted by this seeing as they abhor the use of human shields as a principle.

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122496434#Comment_122496434

He doesn't want to declare total victory either: that would mean the resumption of normal business, elections, and his criminal prosecution.

One, lonely, upside thing about the Israeli legal system is the statute of limitations is minimum 10-20 years depending on the severity of the crime … he can't keep this up that long surely.

https://apnews.com/article/israel-netanyahu-corruption-trial-courts-4e18ed8f34e65707bd47e37696da4705

Then again some of the crimes he is on trial for literally span decades:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trial_of_Benjamin_Netanyahu

Today:

https://www.timesofisrael.com/ag-to-high-court-clear-public-interest-in-wrapping-up-netanyahu-trial-quickly/

tayto lover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122504478#Comment_122504478

''The most moral army in the world.'' Total rabble.

nacho libre

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122504532#Comment_122504532

He will get immunity somehow . His political obituary has been written before yet he always comes back

He is a political cockroach.

PeggyShippen

It's obvious why Omar wasn't ousted. She's too hard to move. Even a big big influx of money might not have shifted her. There's a really strong far left and East African vote in her area. She's terrible, a real disaster of a politician. She'd have gotten on well with 'Oh Jeremy Corbyn' types in Ireland and the UK. When she's re elected she ll have less of the squad around her...which is good.

engineerws

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122504843#Comment_122504843

I remember living in the UK and thinking corbyn was a crackpot. I watched him in parliament and was really surprised that he seemed excellent and I was impressed with his policies.

The labour flies show how the ousting of Corbyn was used to silence debate on Gaza.

https://morningstaronline.co.uk/article/labour-files-where-outrage-where-action

Another 20 billion to Israel.

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/blinken-approves-sale-israel-military-equipment-worth-over-20-bln-2024-08-13/

I wonder if it goes back into AIPAC?

circadian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122505490#Comment_122505490

This is still ongoing and is the preferred mechanism for the Starmer faction to oust anyone that doesn't toe the line.

tayto lover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122504638#Comment_122504638

Yes indeed. Even after WW2 there were people who refused to see anything wrong with the actions of their Fuhrer.

Spudmonkey

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122504394#Comment_122504394

This is so salient!

The one thing this "conflict" has completely opened my eyes to although I empathized with the Palastinians long before October of last year is how Western hegemony is rotten to the core. As we're allied with the West we like to see ourselves on the right side. We may have even turned a blind eye to it cause of the comfort it affords us but nothing has shattered this illusion more than the enablement of what's unfolding in Gaza.

The complicity of media framing stories in ways to suit their backers; Israelis are butchered/slaughtered/murdered by Hamas whilst Gazans are killed/have died by some unseen unspoken force, is the most apparent example of this.

We don't live in democracies, we live in societies where a handful of power elites dictate the direction of our society. No-one summed this up better than Noah Chomsky back in 2014.

Spudmonkey

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122505490#Comment_122505490

Corbyn's biggest crime is that he is pro-people and anti-war. That doesn't suit the status quo. If anything, it's a little dangerous to have someone like that around in case his positions start to resonate with the general populace.

nacho libre

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122505532#Comment_122505532

Well the people of Islington gave their answer to that. I

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122504843#Comment_122504843

 She's terrible, a real disaster of a politician.

Clearly not…

There's a really strong far left and East African vote in her area

tayto lover

Fair play Simon Harris -

https://www.rte.ie/news/2024/0815/1465066-middle-east/

Taoiseach Simon Harris said the figure is a "milestone the world must be ashamed of".

In a post on X, he said diplomacy has failed to "protect innocent children".

Fuascailteoir

A total of 2,100 Palestinian toddlers/infants have now been murdered by Israel since last October. Many more are missing. That is some grim statistic and one that the state of Israel will never live down. Grotesque

fly_agaric

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122505563#Comment_122505563

I don't know if it is that salient (?), as said think it is something that has been talked about repeatedly.

Time passes and nothing much seems to change for the better in the US though. If anything, the influence of these wealthy interests on politics increases.

On the other 2 paragraphs, sorry I would not really agree with them (!) but getting into all that would drag thread far off topic probably.

sock.rocker*

Had a proper friendship-ending falling out with my American friend over this. The only point I made after he brought up the topic was "You cannot bomb an entire country's population because rockets are coming from there.". He flipped out and argued that you can and should because it's the people's fault for not overthrowing Hamas, then he called me a Hamas supporter, brought up de Valera and Hitler, and said Irish people are "always like this".

The things he said to justify Israel's actions made me realise he's on the far far far right of Israel's politics. It seems to be his vessel for some intense Islamophobia he has going on. Like following Israel lets him cheer the deaths of Muslims in a righteous way with a lot of support from whatever communities he's in.

Our partners want us to get over it but I don't think I want to. His views are more inhumane than the worst of the worst in this thread. At least on boards, people are afraid of a ban. He just let loose and it was vile.

Grayson

Double post

Grayson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122506601#Comment_122506601

That means a minimum of 1.6% of the population have been killed. And that's just a minimum. When you think of the bodies that haven't been found. the people dying of disease and hunger, from lack of medical care for other conditions etc…the figure is going to be far higher. I saw a figure of 180,000 quoted. If it actually went that high, that would be about 7% of the population killed. And that's just deaths. That's not including all the people who are injured.

Grayson

https://www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/aug/14/israeli-forces-in-gaza-use-civilians-as-human-shields-against-possible-booby-traps

Turns out its standard practice to use Palestinian civilians as human shields.

o1s1n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122508698#Comment_122508698

I had a similar falling out with some friends not too long ago over another contentious political issue that I won't get into on here.

Suffice to say, I now do my best to veer away from that subject, as well as anything Israel/Gaza related when in company. It's actually crazy how rabid some people can get on the topic.

There really is no point ending friendships over political issues you both have zero influence on.

Brussels Sprout

Israeli Settlers engaging in more ethnic cleansing in the West Bank.

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c623zkwd04qo

WEST

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122509279#Comment_122509279

Yet people still are 'pro Israel' like it is a football team. At least most people in Ireland see Israel as it is, a terrorist state. Hopfully other counties like the UK, France etcs will start to distance themselves from Israel. I'm not sure if the USA support will ever end, but I'm hopeful support will wain once the younger generation start to have a greater say in a decade or two (if they can avoid fox news).

Balagan1

So, Israel's a terrorist State now?

Brussels Sprout

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122509434#Comment_122509434

People who are that way in inclined will always used October 7th or Hamas as their reasoning for the IDF's continued annihilation of civilians inside Gaza. It's like some kind of comfort blanket that they can wrap themselves and convince themselves that Israel are in the morally correct position.

No such comfort blanket exists for what the settlers are doing in the West Bank. Nobody ever tries to justify it. Nobody tries to justify the IDF for being complicit in offering backup to these pogroms carried out by violent lunatics. Nobody tries to justify their continuing theft of internationally recognised Palestinian land to build more illegal settlements. Everybody knows that it's wrong.

That's why you won't hear a peep out of them about it. They won't try and justify it because they cannot justify it.