Hamas strike on Israel - mod warning in OP updated 19/10/23

Sudden Valley

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121247225#Comment_121247225

But if they are not involved why send so many marines. And if they are not going to be involved why do you keep posting information on their movements? If its just a show of force I don't think we need to be updated about every ship movement.

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121247238#Comment_121247238

Not a Simpsons fan?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6WBakQDkNM

"Sir, the shifts are fighting like Iran and Iraq!"

"Who?"

"Persia and Mesopotamia."

"Hush!"

unkel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121247217#Comment_121247217

I don't know, I don't think there are hard numbers or percentages. I asked ChatGPT and got quite a decent answer. Particularly the last paragraph could be crucial here if Hamas are using human shields.

"Disproportionate civilian casualty levels in war refer to a situation where the number of civilian casualties (deaths or injuries) exceeds what might be considered reasonable or justifiable in relation to the military objectives pursued. In armed conflicts, it is generally accepted that civilian casualties are unavoidable to some extent, but international humanitarian law places significant emphasis on minimizing harm to non-combatants.

The principle of proportionality is a fundamental aspect of international humanitarian law (IHL). It states that warring parties must refrain from conducting attacks that may be expected to cause excessive harm to civilians or civilian objects compared to the anticipated military advantage gained. In simpler terms, the military advantage gained should outweigh the potential harm to civilians.

When an attack results in civilian casualties that are grossly disproportionate to the expected military advantage, it can be considered a violation of the principle of proportionality, which is a breach of international humanitarian law. Such incidents can lead to war crimes investigations and prosecutions.

Determining what constitutes a "disproportionate" level of civilian casualties can be a complex assessment, as it involves weighing the value of a military objective against the potential harm to civilians. Factors taken into consideration may include the importance of the military target, the availability of alternative methods of attack, and the potential for collateral damage.

It's worth noting that in modern conflicts, densely populated urban areas are often the battlegrounds, making it particularly challenging to avoid civilian casualties. Efforts are made by military forces to use precision-guided weapons and adhere to rules of engagement that prioritize the protection of non-combatants. However, despite these efforts, civilian casualties still occur, and the assessment of proportionality remains a contentious issue, especially in conflicts where asymmetric warfare or insurgency tactics are employed.

It's important to emphasize that minimizing harm to civilians is a shared responsibility among all parties involved in a conflict, and accountability for civilian casualties is a crucial aspect of post-conflict justice and reconciliation efforts."

brickster69

Two Swedish fans shot in Brussels

https://twitter.com/La_Pollice/status/1713988932063432926

Varik

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121247161#Comment_121247161

Those aren't the same aid packages.

The one that was to be "cancelled" (paused at least) was handled by the EU but was coming directly from the member state coffers. This is from the EU itself.

Out of the money last week only 4 countries (Ireland, Spain, Netherlands, and Luxembourg) objected to that move which is why the EU backtracked but it's only their money that is still continuing, the rest of the EU members have stalled their contributions.

Igotadose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121247170#Comment_121247170

Don't let facts get in the way of your delusions then.

mode1990

Honestly I I was in the states for the treacy Ullman show debut and thought the first 10 series or so were gold , OK , my point was that I never seen an episode lampooning Islam when at the time there was ample fodder , I suppose Phil Hartman being shot dead by his wife brought their mortality into focus , never mind Charlie hbedo!

Burty330

Many consider the land acquired by isreal in spoils of war as the bad outcome. It was actually the good outcome considering the alternative had they lost.

Danzy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121247259#Comment_121247259

Pro Palestinian activist, said he was Islamic State member, still at large with an Ak.

TheValeyard

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121247042#Comment_121247042

Carl Vinson super carrier also quietly set sail on Saturday.

Definitely interesting developments.

US intelligence must have something we dont know about yet. Or a serious show of force to stop other nations getting involved.

nacho libre

I see Bibi is already trying to lay all the blame on the Security Services for what happened, rather predictable but ultimately a futile exercise. He won numerous elections on the basis he would keep Israelis safe, that other potential leaders were too soft for the job. Yet he has presided over the worst massacre of Israelis since the foundation of their state. He is finished after the war. Still he will get to live out a nice retirement. There are many who might think he should be in prison for the various crimes he has commited over the years.

Danzy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121247322#Comment_121247322

Looked up what that was, 1000ft long ship, and a crew of 6000.

Some yoke.

deirdremf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121247140#Comment_121247140

Right, so although it gets cold for a while in winter, the real problem isn't lack of heating but lack of water, and lack of food.

Thirst will almost always kill you a lot faster than the cold, which you can dress up against. Hunger will get you eventually, a long lingering death.

Which do you think is best - to die of the cold, of thirst or of hunger?

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121247358#Comment_121247358

I don't understand the relevance of the rhetorical. Israel cut off all 3, the Gazan civilians need all 3, there needs to be a resumption of services or an international aid corridor allowed in.

TheValeyard

They must think this is about to spill over the border

https://twitter.com/sentdefender/status/1713990157945455076

pjohnson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121247317#Comment_121247317

What a inspirational freedom fighter <3

Overheal

POTUS warns it would be a "big mistake" for Israel to conduct an occupation of Gaza territory. "Israel is going to act under the major (?) rules of war."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=71K-V7Du_FE

"Working like hell" on hostage crisis

"Will provide [Israel] everything they need" military force

"Yes" to humanitarian corridor for Gazans out of the area

"Yes" to humanitarian supplies brought into Gaza

"Yes" to Hamas annihilation, but needs to be a Palestinian Authority, and path to a Palestinian State.

"Don't, Don't, Don't" to Hezbollah and Iran.

The full source interview

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d403nALfQrE

deirdremf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121247244#Comment_121247244

It's hard to know what is going on here, but remember that next year is election year for the next US president.

Biden wants to get all the optics right so that the US zionists (AIPAC, ADL etc) don't desert him, but if he goes too far overboard, the growing anti-zionist movement among younger Americans will not turn out for him. It's a delicate balancing act - promise lots of support, while making sure he doesn't haven't to deliver. I don't envy him here; and having extricated themselves from Afghanistan and Iraq, the last thing the US wants is to get bogged down in another unpopular war in the middle east.

circadian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121247317#Comment_121247317

Source please.

Danzy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121247398#Comment_121247398

Michael D is going to name his new dog after him.

Gatling

How about we stop calling Jewish people Zionists ,

I'm honestly not anti Semitic but i'm a anti Zionist , it's a bit like saying that your not racist but a segregationist

Danzy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121247414#Comment_121247414

Pretty much every news service in Europe.

StrawbsM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121247414#Comment_121247414

Just search “Bruxelles” or “Brussels” or BELvSWE as the match is on

https://twitter.com/antoineeliegz/status/1713995262153064536?s=46&t=IY-y8V-cxTAz1djkZYvB6A

fly_agaric

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121247161#Comment_121247161

The EU never "cancelled" the aid afair did they?

One of Commissioners spoke beyond his remit, which a few people in the EU have being doing (incl. von der Leyen arguably).

Seems to be a chaotic + very fast moving situation, something the EU does not handle well by its nature, if there isn't already clear consensus between the members (there has not been historically on Israel + Palestine issues) or hasn't been time for one to be arrived at.

Can't be an honest mistake IMO, since you do this sort of thing constantly and always mix 1 part truth with 2 parts distortion (e.g. post good reputable sources, and then follow with your weirdo "tweets" often dug up from Russia or CCP bots + their "news" sources!).

Just another brick of misinfo/disinfo/FUD you've shítted out on the pile.

TheValeyard

Couple of interesting theories on Reddit as to why no ground assault so far.

1. President Biden may make a surprise visit to Israel first (may explain extra naval assets)

2. Israel is unsure if can handle a long war including another front.

quokula

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121247381#Comment_121247381

The UN peacekeeping headquarters in the Lebanon has already been hit by an Israeli bomb, where Irish troops among others luckily survived. A reuters journalist who was reporting from the lebanon wasn't so lucky and was killed by the Israelis in a separate attack. You could argue it's already spilled over. And given that Israel have already bombed the main airports used by civilian aviation in Syria, I wouldn't fancy hanging around an airport in the Lebanon right now.

Gatling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121247455#Comment_121247455

According to the UN it was hit by rockets from both sides , very misleading

TheValeyard

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121247455#Comment_121247455

Iranian responses also not helping. Not sure if saber rattling or they see which way this is going.

https://twitter.com/Faytuks/status/1714006882178752781?t=T42b6CzpbwBMoRv3mJYLVQ&s=19

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121247417#Comment_121247417

You don't have to be Jewish to be a Zionist? George W Bush for example, an American and a Christian, is a Zionist. Joe Biden, an American Catholic, is a Zionist.

Nor does being Jewish through genetics or creed a guarantee one is a Zionist. Bernie Sanders is a Jewish American and critical of Zionism, and especially critical of the current Israeli government.

The conflation that criticizing Zionism is inherently antisemitic is incredibly pervasive though, as it is incorrect, and a root problem in the ability of people to come to a congress or quorum in any discussion about this history-spanning conflict between sides.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121246776#Comment_121246776

In my opinion not guaging opinions of member states and going on a solo run with messaging increases the risk of a major security incident occuring 10 fold. We know European cities have had heightened threat levels for a while for a multitude of reasons. It would not take much to tip it.

That is just my opinion.

quokula

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121247462#Comment_121247462

Do you have a source for that? Original reports yesterday were that they were trying to verify, but the only reports from today are that it was Israel. At no point ever did the UN state that they were hit by Lebanese rockets as far as I can find.

Beasty

grumpyperson threadbanned

mode1990

Couch it in anti zionism , since the two wars of 48 & 67 Israel has quadrupled in size , Israel s six neighbours decided to annihilate it in 67 and it was only their military ineptitude resulted in an Israeli victory ! Until Iran, Qatar & proxies acknowledge the state of Israel then there will never be peace !

brickster69

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121247445#Comment_121247445

You are right they announced it but then had to back pedal the announcement.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/oct/10/eu-aid-to-palestinians-will-not-be-cancelled-as-decision-reversed#:~:text=EU%20foreign%20ministers%20have%20reversed,an%20emergency%20meeting%20in%20Oman

deirdremf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121247417#Comment_121247417

I'm not sure what your point is here.

A zionist is someone with a particular ideology, and need not be jewish.

A jew is someone with a particular religion, and need not be a zionist. There are also cultural jews, who may or may not be zionists.

Maybe you could clarify exactly what you mean?

quokula

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121247499#Comment_121247499

Conflating zionists with jews is a great way to throw out accusations of anti-semitism at anyone who disagrees with that ideology or disagrees with the actions of the state of Israel.

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121247454#Comment_121247454

Blinken did a "whirlwind tour" the media spun it as, to multiple middle eastern counties, twice touching down in Israel at the head and tail of it. One would think that Blinken was the Red Phone on 2 legs between all these sides. Methinks Israel and the US have a clear read of the room of what will happen if they go into Gaza 1) and if they occupy or annex it 2) as well as contingencies 7) 12) and n).

https://www.state.gov/secretary-blinkens-travel-to-israel-jordan-qatar-saudi-arabia-the-united-arab-emirates-and-egypt/

Secretary of State Antony J. Blinken will travel to Israel, Jordan, Qatar, Bahrain, Saudi Arabia, the United Arab Emirates, and Egypt October 11-16, 2023, where he will meet with senior officials. The Secretary will reiterate his condemnation of the terrorist attacks in Israel in the strongest terms. The Secretary will also reaffirm the United States’ solidarity with the government and people of Israel. The Secretary will engage regional partners on efforts to help prevent the conflict from spreading, secure the immediate and safe release of hostages, and identify mechanisms for the protection of civilians.

Israel has to be sure if it goes in it goes in surgically because the world will be watching with more sources than ever and with international hostages lives in jeopardy. And if it **** up and causes any viral outrage tank-treading over grandma in a wheelchair or accidentally shoots an American or Irish hostage or something unthinkable or deeply outrageous, there will be consequences, both military and economic, that they're not in control of but that are inevitable and foreseeable, from the likes of OPEC+ and BRICS.

Israel should turn the services back on soon, because OPEC+ has the strongest hand in the game when it comes to shutting off supply, and they've proven use of it. And while NATO's most strategic assets are secure and functional in any embargo situation, we wouldn't just be talking about cutting off the heat in only Ukraine this winter, and things would only escalate out of military urgency from there. An open aid corridor would take a lot of edge off the current international tensions.

brickster69

BBC apologises for calling some of the protests pro hamas protests and not pro palestinian. Everyone loosing the plot

https://twitter.com/mohammedakunjee/status/1713995522631979118

Gatling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121247476#Comment_121247476

Wasn't hard to find

https://twitter.com/UNIFIL_/status/1713591439886622963?s=20

https://twitter.com/kryzpt/status/1713579089565819334?s=20

https://www.irishtimes.com/world/middle-east/2023/10/15/irish-unifil-troops-safe-after-rocket-strikes-peacekeeping-headquarters-in-lebanon/

quokula

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121247504#Comment_121247504

How many people have been killed by rockets in Tel Aviv vs how many have been killed by rockets in Gaza?

Israel has been slaughtering civilians and children in their thousands all week (and for many decades before that) in addition to starving millions, and you expect the Palestinians to just lie down and be exterminated instead of defending themselves?

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121247531#Comment_121247531

I know some dads of lads who worked in Lebanon with the Irish defense force back in the day. Hope everyone stays okay.

quokula

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121247531#Comment_121247531

The UN quote said nothing about their base being hit by Lebanese rockets. You've then followed that up with a post from a random guy on twitter with zero connection to the UN making an unverified claim. Actual news agencies report otherwise.

Gatling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121247523#Comment_121247523

Can only think of several posters on here who use the term Zionists ,and them being antizionists it's just an a word play on Jew or Jews ,

Even in America or American politics people don't use the term Zionists or antizionists unless they also happen to be far right Nazis or conspiracy theorists who complain about lizard men and the Jews coming to take over

TheValeyard

Let's see if this is true

https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/pentagon-sends-deployment-notices-to-2000-us-troops-over-israel-hamas-war/

US preparing to issue deploy notices to 2000 soldiers.

quokula

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121247553#Comment_121247553

Yeah it's a dire situation to be thrown into through no fault of their own. That's what they're trained for I guess but hopefully they won't be subjected to further attacks.

Gatling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121247556#Comment_121247556

So your claim about an Israeli bomb was completely made up and now your complaining about a source showing Rockets hitting the UNFIL base in Lebanon,

mode1990

You've got that most irish trait , a selective memory , what about the two wars Israel had to fight to prevent a determined Arab annihilation of Israel , on the subject of killing innocent the likes of isis and other Islamic groups did an excellent job in what can only be called barbarity!

Gatling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121247538#Comment_121247538

Have you noticed only two individuals keep going on about 40 Babies,

Why is that???

Cheerful S

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121247504#Comment_121247504

When Israel enters Gaza, there is a high probability of it triggering a multi-front war against Israel. Unlike Ukraine, Israel is not a massive country and therefore can only defend a limited amount of territory. This poses significant challenges for Israel in terms of its military capabilities and resources. However, in the face of an overwhelming attack, the IDF may find itself in a position where it is unable to repel the invading forces. In this case, Israel may consider the nuclear option. Existential threats faced by Israel include a chilling defense clause that states the country may resort to using nuclear weapons against the whole Middle East or anyone who didn't help them survive. ( Samson option)

The United States' decision to move ships to the region is driven by concerns over Israel's ability to repel a large-scale military uprising in the Middle East. This deployment reflects the United States' commitment to supporting its ally and being prepared to provide military assistance if necessary. It is imperative to be realistic when considering Israel's approach to safeguarding its nation if faced with death. I hope the United States can get Israel to back down on an invasion of Gaza before it's too late. The other nations in the Middle East will find it hard to ignore it once it begins.

Longing

NBC news reporting US military preparing to deploy to Middle East. 2000 troops.

US slowly building the must have some intelligence of some sort that is very concerning.

Edit: sorry already posted. Didn't see.