Hamas strike on Israel - mod warning in OP updated 19/10/23

markodaly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121253511#Comment_121253511

I agree, this will take a bit more time, but it's a fairly significant development. Marry that with what Biden said. The IDF have released a lot of information about this strike.

What is more concerning though is the fact that many people here, in news departments and elsewhere swallowed the Hamas point of view straight off the bat, without any investigation done by themselves.

Egg on face for many..

Cordell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121253556#Comment_121253556

No, it's actually Israel and Hamas. Most posts here regardless of the side they support use these two terms to designate the sides. So it has became so normalized that even Israel supporters are doing it.

Look at the title, it's Hamas strike on Israel.

Gatling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121253556#Comment_121253556

On This thread they don't,the IDF is actually rarely mentioned it's Palestinians or Zionists,

I stick to Israelis,Gazans and hamas terrorist

Multipass

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121253453#Comment_121253453

Hamas killed innocent civilians by their careless military actions?

Are you from this planet?

SharkMX

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121253522#Comment_121253522

30 year military expert my hole. As my granny used to say - "self praise is no praise".

Why are the windows of the cars still intact after an explosion big enough to kill 500 people in buildings further away than the cars. The cars havent even moved either after the explosion. Imagine a 30 year military expert not asking that question.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121253551#Comment_121253551

I have seen many images throughout social media of the attack and its aftermath. It comes nowhere near close to the number of alleged victims. This is when you compare to what we have seen with other attacks. The scale of the attack becomes obvious.

But in this case, all we have to go by is the word of the Hamas spokesperson which doesn't appear, on the face of it, to stand anywhere near close to scrutiny.

I'm not sure how they counted that many bodies in the space of 10-minutes of the attack, either.

Beechwoodspark

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121253564#Comment_121253564

This would be a good start from the Gazans. Hopefully israel would engage in negotiations if the people:

hand over the terrorists

hand over the hostages

declare their wish to participate in ceasefire talks

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121253571#Comment_121253571

The Netanyahu regime has spent the last 10 days denying committing any war crimes in Gaza, when evidence would suggest they have killed a couple of thousand civilians in that period.

Gatling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121253588#Comment_121253588

He didn't have access to the pictures then

markodaly

One also has to look at it this way.

Who stands to benefit from this strike?

Israel or Hamas?

Hamas of course.

Why would Israel bomb a hospital at the same time that Biden is in the air, en route to the region?

OK, maybe it was a mistake, but where is the crater that is consistent with a JDAM bomb that Israel has been using?

We saw the reaction in the wider region when Hamas put out their propaganda.

How did they establish within an hour that 500 people had died? This normally takes many many hours to decipher.

What Hamas want, are incidents like this, where the wider world will put international pressure on Israel to stand down, where Hamas remain in control of Gaza and the whole cycle can start again in a few months/years...

McFly85

It’s naive in the extreme to expect ordinary Palestinians to rise up against Hamas and essentially side with the people who cause significant destruction and death on their land in retaliation.

If Israel want Palestinians to recognise Hamas as the common enemy, they’re going to need up treat these people as friends - which would mean a serious change in tactics, starting with stopping indiscriminate bombing of Gaza.

Longing

@JamesCleverly

Last night, too many jumped to conclusions around the tragic loss of life at Al Ahli hospital.

Getting this wrong would put even more lives at risk.

Wait for the facts, report them clearly and accurately.

Cool heads must prevail.

The most sensible tweet I have seen since the accident.

Danzy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121253535#Comment_121253535

BBC will now just be called Jew lovers

Hummingbird Project

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121248927#Comment_121248927

You’ve completely misunderstood my point. I’m not saying ireland is like israel in using terror as a tactic. I’m saying those that defend the terrorism of the IRA and condemning Hamas terrorism now are completely hypocrites and they know they’re contradicting themselves now. The problem with a hypcrite is if you tell me a lie now, how do i know you won’t tell me a lie in the future again?

nacho libre

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121253003#Comment_121253003

Israel have lied in the past about not being responsible for killing civilians. You probably won’t admit it but they have. We should be sceptical of their denials rather than immediately last night believing it wasn't them. However I am leaning now towards the possibility that the IDF is actually telling the truth on this one, because for 500 people to have died you would expect to see videos of the hospital building being levelled or at least severely damaged. As I said previously even if Israel came up with 100 percent proof it was not them who bombed the hospital, alot of people in the Arab world would say it was all fabricated.

Defence and Security analyst Michael Clarke (of Sky News) believes that, on balance of probability, it seems Palestinian Islamic Jihad is more likely to be responsible for this attack.

Michael Clarke told Sky News that while many nations in the Middle East have blamed Israel, the "reality is probably the opposite - but we're only dealing with probability here".

The balance of probability points to Israeli claims being true - that the Palestinian Islamic Jihad misfired a rocket, he said.

When pressed, he put the probability at 60-70%.

markodaly

https://x.com/JamesCleverly/status/1714573399635140798?s=20

SharkMX

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121253596#Comment_121253596

Yes he did. They were even posted in this thread pages before his. He declared himself an authority on the subject and then proceeded to show how smart he was by selectively choosing evidence to suit his theory and ignoring the rest. Classic baffle them with bullshit post.

Danzy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121253609#Comment_121253609

Lol, you can mention me by name.

yourdeadwright

Anyone claiming either side has not & will not continue kill innocent people are of there rocker,

Hamas done it last week & You can not bomb like Israel have without killing hundred if not thousands of innocent people ,

markodaly

https://x.com/Osinttechnical/status/1714543625068040232?s=20

brickster69

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121253439#Comment_121253439

No it is exactly 1 hour off to the second. One hour later to the second no bomb hit the hospital meaning the CCTV was off by exactly an hour.

m2_browning

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121253600#Comment_121253600

Well then they can sit there and play the victim card instead of actually doing something to distance themselves from Hamas and end this madness.

You can bet if Palestinians March for peace and handover of prisoners and terrorists then enormous pressure would be put on Israel from everyone to deal with them and end this.

At end of day Israel want to crush Hamas not eradicate Palestinians despite what some of the anti semitic nutcases here who frequent conspiracy theory subforum and parrot Russian propaganda say

Sudden Valley

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121253465#Comment_121253465

Even the IDF are saying its not Hamas, its Islamic Jihad a different militant group in Gaza.

Israel as a State has one army the IDF which it controls. The Palestine are made up of different factions Hamas is one, and hasn't been elected as part of one part of Palestine for nearly 20 years. So Palestine didn't do this a faction within Palestine did it. If you still think this is a double standard then I cant help you.

Montage of Feck

This quote from the wire comes to mind with regards all the claims and counter claims going on:

"I mean, ****, it's what war is, you know? Once you in it, you in it. If it's a lie, then we fight on that lie. But we gotta fight."

Facts don't matter at this stage people will belief what they want to justify whatever they want.

Snooker Loopy

It seems clear to me that Israel didn't do this particular bombing.

In one sense truth doesn't matter, because too many people will stick to a narrative even if proven wrong, but in another sense truth very much matters.

To be honest I'm glad that it appears Israel were not responsible, because the consequences if it had been were unthinkable.

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121253592#Comment_121253592

You wonder why Gazans haven't formed a political platform in which to do this? Fear of Hamas would be the obvious answer

SafeSurfer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121253557#Comment_121253557

Why did an IDF spokesperson claim they had bombed the hospital?

Were they lying then or lying now?

Gatling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121253645#Comment_121253645

It's well documented that Hamas regularly kidnaps tortures and murders Gazans, they are a terrorist organisation and people on boards believe everything that hamas says as true ,it like coming out and saying Isis said that they didn't kill anyone in the middle east ,it's all a neocon conspiracy against Islam

TinyMuffin

FUBAR

Freneys Treasure

The most important thing here is not the casualties; it is establishing that the other side is responsible

Beechwoodspark

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121253645#Comment_121253645

They need to rise up in their millions.

If not now, when.

PokeHerKing

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121253664#Comment_121253664

The IDF also do this though. So why do you defend/believe them?

Kermit.de.frog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121253637#Comment_121253637

I would hope some would consider before posting tweets from heavily biased Ukranian twitter accounts for anything to do with any of this.

The Ukrainian authorities and their social media propganda arm came out full square behind Israel and it's retaliation

I also find it odd that a country which itself is being partitioned and occupied to be supporting Israeli actions but there you go.

Anyway just remember all those Ukranian accounts are heavily pro-Israel.

markodaly

A good thread that backs up what people are saying about this strike, that it was not consistent with an IDF strike.

https://x.com/Nrg8000/status/1714535497958334678?s=20

SafeSurfer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121253538#Comment_121253538

So you would be opposed to an independent verification of the facts and to suggest it is anti Israeli and probably anti semitic.

Ok then.

crusd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121253599#Comment_121253599

Israel have previously inflicted mass casualties on innocent civilians in the name of targeting terrorists, when to do so would reflect negatively on them and give Hamas a propaganda "win", which is why people could readily believe they bombed the hospital. They also have previous for denying incidents for which they are responsible for which means their credibility is somewhat questionable.

Now the photos shared of this incident are not at all consistent with an event that would have resulted in 500+ deaths unless there were 25 people in each car. To me there are a number of possibilities.

1. It was an Israeli strike and the photos shown do not show the extent of the damage
2. It was a much smaller impact from the Israeli side and Hamas as exaggerating the death toll for propaganda purposes
3. It was an errant Islamic Jihad rocket anfd Hamas are blaming Israel and exaggerating the death toll for propaganda purposes
4. It was fully staged by Hamas for propaganda purposes.

I would put little credibility in statements from both sides and will wait for independent confirmation.

markodaly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121253652#Comment_121253652

I don't know, ask them, but he has clarified it after.

Tell us all, do you have any proof that it was an IDF strike? Is there anyone out there willing to state it was and with some evidence, apart from what Hamas saying?

"Trust me Bro..."

McFly85

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121253639#Comment_121253639

Play the victim card? They are victims in all of this. Pawns of Hamas and given little thought in Israel’s retaliation policy. Expecting them to solve the crisis almost sounds like victim blaming.

Israel and the IDF are the ones with real choice at this point, and the choices they have made make it very unlikely for ordinary Palestinians to consider them allies.

nacho libre

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121253609#Comment_121253609

Yes, it is hypocritical. Just as those who defend state terrorism or even deny its existence. Also those like Ursula who are selectively disgusted by collective punishment and possible breaches of international law .

markodaly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121253692#Comment_121253692

It's not just the IDF,

At this moment in time it's.

Sky News

BBC

OSINT

POTUS

..

.

along with many others.

Montage of Feck

The Israeli's seem to have put together a very strong case that it was indeed Islamic jihad. Just a pity their intelligence hadn't been operating at that level a few weeks back.

Oscar_Madison

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121253571#Comment_121253571

Oh totally and a number of us said that last night - there’s people here not interested in discussion or the truth or facts, only score keeping and mud slinging , mostly at the Israelis - as much as that country deserves criticism for where we find ourselves today after all these years, I don’t see any of those people U turning and saying how terrible Hamas or whoever fired this weapon are -and you’ll never see that happening - they’ll just dump more whataboutery in the thread .

Gatling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121253684#Comment_121253684

I don't defend them nowhere on this thread have I defended them, I've called them out and I've condemed them on this thread and multiple threads on here but if you look back on this thread you will see the same individuals time and time again denying what happened in last week's terrorist attack in Israel,

I will say that the claims of massive indiscriminate carpet bombing of the whole of Gaza isn't true , simply because they aren't,they are targeting hamas infrastructure which is based in housing, schools, businesses , the absolute majority of buildings in Gaza haven't been touched despite the claims of indiscriminate carpet bombings,it that was the case Gaza wouldn't have any buildings standing let alone the majority still standing

StrawbsM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121253637#Comment_121253637

After pasting onto this thread, change the “x.com” bit to “Twitter.com” then hit return. The tweet can then be displayed on thread.

TheValeyard

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121253727#Comment_121253727

The Israelis are guilty of plenty of warcrimes in their history.

But, currently, the evidence suggests, they did not do this.

markodaly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121253686#Comment_121253686

LOL

It isn't a Ukrainian account, it's an American one, created by an Analyst from CNA.org.

Egg.On.Face

m2_browning

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121253701#Comment_121253701

They have two options

1. do nothing and potentially endup as collateral damage to the IDF who are foaming at their mouths to eradicate islamists
2. march for peace ending this nightmare that Hamas started in their names and potentially put in place a longer term solution to the whole Gaza problem

thats it to be blunt.

Unlike the nutcases posting in this thread I am actually trying to think of a solution to this madness instead of participating in the endless whodunnit and petty bickering or worse the few who are getting visibly excited each time Palestinians or “Jews” are killed in this latest round of violence and evil from both sides

Long Sean Silver

from the evidence emerging it is now clear that the hospital was blown up by HAMAS.

Hamas operatives on audio admitting it was them. Shocking. don't know what difference it will make tbh.

Jinglejangle69

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121253583#Comment_121253583

Well that’s what happened last night no?

With the stray rocket?