Hamas strike on Israel - mod warning in OP updated 19/10/23

Oscar_Madison

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121254494#Comment_121254494

So yet another blame it all on Israel Israel Israel post and disregard anything Hamas have done in the last 10 days - is that it in a nutshell because I’m damned if I’m going to read that essay

muob

Touché @facehugger99 plenty pro Istael on here to promote their ( Israel/ IDF ) lies, heinous war crimes and massacre of innocent civilians.

THEY ARE A DISGRACE TO HUMANITY

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121254713#Comment_121254713

Support the Netanhayu regime and that's who your fellow travellers will be - I'm not all that sure I see much 'moderate' support for the regime across Europe's politicians and media, particularly in terms of their aggressive actions against Palestine.

Long Sean Silver

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121254734#Comment_121254734

Israel has the right to defend itself.

Israel has the right to exist.

HAMAS and it's big brother Iran want to wipe Israel off the map.

circadian

https://twitter.com/manniefabian/status/1714539311914266931

Cemetary behind the hosptial, on the compound.

https://twitter.com/HananyaNaftali/status/1714605501336392175

Looks like a reasonable distance away.

Which is it?

greenpilot

On the Hospital attack.

Nobody knows yet what the truth is. But there are questions related to both arguments.

It could be one of 4 possible answers, each with their own problems:

1. A Hamas rocket, which misfired. Problem: Explosion is much too large for a 50kg to 70kg warhead. Plus the sound of the approaching warhead indicated something with more mass and travelling supersonic.

2. A new HAMAS rocket, with more propellant and more mass, that misfired and exploded but did not detonate. Problem: if Hamas has developed such a weapon, why had it not been used up to now?

3. A Joint Direct Attack Munition ( JDAM). At 500lb, the weapon would create both the characteristic whistle prior to impact and the large explosion. Israel recieved a delivery of these from the US earlier this week, and also had some in storage. Problem: the explosion did not appear to have the kinetic energy associated with a 500lb bomb. Where is the crater? Did the bomb malfunction and not explode? If it was fitted with an air-burst or proximity fuse, why did it not kick up the soil?

4. A LORA munition. These ballistic long range surface to surface weapons have been recently developed by Israel and were used only weeks ago by Azerbaijan, as they bought some from Israel. Again, they have exactly the same aural and fireball characteristics as the weapon shown in the footage, but again, where did the expected kinetic energy dissipate to?

One other important point to note. It would be important to find out if there were any Israeli fighter jets in the area on a trajectory that would possibly suggest that they were in the correct vector to release such a weapon. However, it would be just as important, and easy, to prove if any jets, weapons or missiles WERE NOT present during the incident. If that were the case and Israel showed us this evidence, then that's it, case closed. But, how can they produce such Important evidence?

Two words: Arleigh Burke. There are currently 4 Arleigh Burke missile destroyers sitting off the Coast of Gaza as part of the recently arrived carrier group. These ships are designed to track and monitor multiple aerial targets as small as both a Hamas rocket or JDAM. Due to the geographical location of the blast, and the relatively low activity in the airspace, it would be very easy for Israel to "pull the tapes" of the airspace over and around the area in question at the time of the attack. The information is absolutely there, and recorded. So why not show it in order to definitively prove that it was a Hamas missile, not an Israeli missile that hit the hospital.

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121254714#Comment_121254714

So you didn’t read the post you’re criticizing

Markus Antonius

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121254494#Comment_121254494

Too much innocence in this post. The bottom line is - Israeli government wants the Palestinians out of Gaza so they can plant their own people there.

The concert attack was the perfect pretext for the opportunistic Netenyahoo. The Kibbutz dwellers are too liberal for him and were the cause of him not being voted in last time. You can't bake a cake without cracking a few Kibbutz eggs is his attitude.

brickster69

It just looks strange. Channel 12 show footage of missiles being shot directly towards the hospital and others show them being shot away from the hospital. Same time and everything.

https://twitter.com/Duranthan/status/1714615415325036760

Ce he sin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121254497#Comment_121254497

Actually, it's often not

But don't let that stand in your way.

Sir_Name

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121254714#Comment_121254714

If you bothered to read the post you would see that I damned Hamas for all killing Israelis innocents, but to pretend that the tinderbox the situation now isnt largely due to Israeli policy over the past 50/60 years would be ignorant. Educate yourself. I live in the Middle east and have been having conversations with friends of both denominations. It was an Israeli friend who provided the second link to me to help me understand the context.

circadian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121254784#Comment_121254784

Israel are more than capable of creating their own small yield guided bombs.

https://www.rafael.co.il/spice-family/

I'd agree though, there should be evidence of aircraft in the area or by other monitoring released.

onlymeself

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121254784#Comment_121254784

You know what go a long way towards clearing this all up. A picture of the crater. If there was a crater how in the hell have we not seen it yet with all the photos taken of the site of the explosion. I just can't see how it was a JDAM or anything like that. But then I can't understand the noise it created as it came in. Would that happen with shrapnel? Or did someone overlay audio on the video.

Sir_Name

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121254756#Comment_121254756

I agree with all the above - however Palestinians have the right to exist. Palestinians do not equal Hamas. These questions require a simple yes or no.

Are Israel right to withhold food, water, humanitarian aid from innocent Palestinian people.

Do you believe under the right the return that Israelis are entitles to walk into a Palestinian home, and its now theirs.

Do you believe that Israel are entitled to oppress innocent Palestinians.

Gatling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121254825#Comment_121254825

1000lb -2000lb is small yeild, not a hope

Markus Antonius

The fact that the US secret service are happy to let Biden into Tel Aviv is a sure indicator of the current threat levels. Yet we are told that Hamas are unleashing a barrage of rockets towards Tel Aviv? Please...

greenpilot

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121254798#Comment_121254798

To play devils advocate on the footage:

It's impossible to ascertain the vector of the rockets. They could be travelling anywhere within a 90 degree arc in the footage. Plus, there is the possible scenario that an IAF jet saw the rockets being prepared to fire, using its FLIR pod, launched a weapon towards the rocket site, but it fell short and hit the hospital.

Again, it's not definitive proof. We just do not know yet.

m2_browning

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121254851#Comment_121254851

This was discussed earlier nothing stopping millions of Palestinians in Gaza peacefully marching in open demanding

1. end of bombing
2. return of kidnapped people back to Israel
3. handing over any Islamists involved in terrorist attack to courts

not like Palestinians there have much else todo and the whole world is watching and has attention on region

this would get rid off the Hamas yoke, satisfy Israel and resume services and potentially set groundwork for longer term solution in region

Hey boy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121253185#Comment_121253185

Maybe they took a leaf out of Bin Laden’s book and kept off coms for that attack.

Long Sean Silver

i think great credit must go to Biden. clearly he's not a young man, but he's there, he's putting himself in the eye of a storm, he's trying.

he could just as easily stayed Stateside and threw up his hands in despair. he didn't.

the US is possibly the only party now which can talk sense to Nettanyahu and his right-wing Govt. HAMAS have now scored another own-goal and are desperate to try and turn it around.

I wish President Biden GOOD LUCK!

He's gonna need it.

circadian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121254853#Comment_121254853

The smallest is 249lb or 113kg.

onlymeself

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121254798#Comment_121254798

Ya that's right. And that last flash from rocket high up about a second or two before hospital explosion is seen on other videos also.

Do Israel use anything at all that they can fire from planes to take out rockets in the sky. Just wondering if that rocket that seemed to explode in the air was hit with something and hospital also hit by accident at same time by something trying to take out rockets.

If it wasn't, then most likely to be falling debris from PIJ rocket, or possibly but unlikely that IDF fired something at exactly same time that completely missed target or failed.

walshb

So who bombed the oispideal?

muob

@boetstark the world is not going to assure Israel of anything in that regard simply because no one knows....

one attack like they experienced on Saturday last does not IN ANY WAY excuse their current deplorable killings.

I'm pretty sure they are much more likely to be on the receiving end of attacks in future after their ongoing massacre in Gaza of innocent women, children, families and their displacement of over 1MN+ citizens. Also their inhumane cutting off of vital power water supplies.

No sympathy whatsoever for them they are shameless bullies who stop at nothing just to protect themselves. They are full of REVENGE and nothing good will ever come of that.

Manic Moran

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121254784#Comment_121254784

#2: They've been using substantially larger rockets for some time. See launches against Ashkelon and Netivot in 2021.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/islamic-jihad-flaunts-rocket-arsenal-at-36th-anniversary-parade-in-gaza/

“The new Buraq missiles have a range of 85 kilometers (50 miles), and the improved Badr 3 missiles have an explosive warhead weighing 400 kilos (880 pounds),” an Al-Quds Brigades spokesman said

That's just shy the amount of explosives as a Mk84 bomb.

RoyalCelt

Joe brolly making a show of himself on twitter. No matter how much evidence suggests it's far more likely a HAMAS strike he keeps accusing Israel. I wonder will him comment on HAMAS shooting these faulty rockets over hospitals when reality finally sets in.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121254894#Comment_121254894

Palestinian Islamic Jihad.

Sir_Name

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121254882#Comment_121254882

Idealogical... and would not stop Israel treatment of Palestinians, and land grabbing.... Never mind 1.1m of them have been trying to evacuate amongst 6,000 bombs dropping on them, and busy trying to rescue people.

Also please read the article I linked. It actually discusses what happened the last time Palestinian rose up in peaceful protest. For context.

walshb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121254911#Comment_121254911

And blamed Israel?

BorneTobyWilde

Looking like it was not Israel who bombed the hospital, I was wrong, and unlike other people, I love being wrong, every time I'm wrong I learn.

crusd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121254217#Comment_121254217

Rockets are propelled. Its momentum is generated by the rocket itself.

Listen to the video in the link. You can clearly hear that its a rocket. The trope of the whistle in a failing bomb was due to the WW2 practice of adding a whistle to their bombs to instill fear

https://news.sky.com/story/israel-hamas-war-latest-updates-gaza-sky-news-live-blog-12978800?postid=6608817#liveblog-body

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Wcv-7-zSgM&list=OLAK5uy_mGD8MunGmxwBLhrz_74cgpMbszoUiuKcY&index=1

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jH4bp1g_44M

walshb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121254910#Comment_121254910

There will always be Irish people who will never be seen to not condemn Israel, no matter what Palestinians do

m2_browning

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121254915#Comment_121254915

No it’s a practical civilised solution to this shitshow, which has worked elsewhere before to bring down much shittier authoritarian regimes

Except there are parties on both sides and their useful idiots for whom continued conflict and misery is the aim

Manic Moran

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121254665#Comment_121254665

I don't know about cardinal directions, but the Al-Jazeera video clearly shows a rocket suffer a malfunction and then radically change direction.

https://twitter.com/AdityaRajKaul/status/1714375291764900094

First trouble at 0:09, it's going bottom right to top left. Makes a hard turn after a second flash at 00:11, now heading top right at which point it appears to have caught fire and then breaks up at 00:14. Surface impacts follow at 00:19 and 00:21. Camera zooms in, you can easily see the distinctive solar panels silhouetted by the fire.

Markus Antonius

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121254891#Comment_121254891

Biden has an AIPAC gun held to his head. He had no choice.

muob

It makes me laugh/ cry the discussion on this thread debating whose fault was the hospital attack.

The entire crisis in Gaza has been caused by Israel & their incessant bombing, their displacement of families women kids, the cramming of 1.1Mn people into tight unsafe zones, the cutting off of vital supplies water food medicine. That amount would not have been near the hospital without their activities in preceeding days Either way they are fully to blame...imho!

Whether or not they deliberately attacked the hospital ( I certainly believe they did) they are ultimately the root cause here.

Disgusting that US EU UK politicians have taken their sloppy lies as credible I certainly wouldn't buy that crap from them. Apart from that what they are doing to actively stop any aid getting into Gaza is completely INHUMANE

Gatling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121254875#Comment_121254875

We've also have the audio there is no sound of either an F16 or F15 or several of either nor is there any Sign of jet exhaust,and we also have the audio interpreted from the guys who actually launched the rockets,

So far there is zero evidence of IDF bombs or new weapon,

circadian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121254962#Comment_121254962

Source on the lads that launched the rockets.

Iamabeliever

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121254929#Comment_121254929

Good point. That video finally proves it was certainly them Israelis

Markus Antonius

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121254935#Comment_121254935

The Israelis have bombed Palistinians countless times in the past and blamed "terrorist misfires". They've worn this excuse to death and have left it to the ignorant to spread the lies online.

Sir_Name

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121254947#Comment_121254947

Agree wholeheartedly on your second point.

First point, please provide an example of an similar situation where a protest in an apartheid made their oppressor stop.

Or are you talking about Israelis should protest?

m2_browning

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121254995#Comment_121254995

East Germany was brought down by millions coming into streets, a highly repressive authoritarian regime where half the population spied on other half

Romania too

Either Palestinians in Gaza are victims of Hamas (and Israel) or they support the first

Eitherway here is a peaceful chance for them to get out of this cycle of violence at a time when everyone has a video recorder in their pocket

brickster69

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121254951#Comment_121254951

So it was an accident ? A missile malfunctions and a few seconds later it strikes the very same hospital that was warned to evacuate a few hours earlier. I wonder what the odds of that were.

TomTomTim

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121254956#Comment_121254956

Zionist money in American politics is something seriously overlooked in these threads in regard to America's pro Israel attitude, I say that too as someone who isn't exactly anti Israel.

Hamsterchops

It (whatever it was) landed in the carpark and set fire to several cars, no impact crater to speak of and the hospital seems relatively unscathed.

Israeli air strikes usually result in the total destruction of a building being turned to rubble, leaving behind a deep crater and a landscape of devastation. This explosion in the hospital carpark looks different.

Hard to quantify how many innocent people lost their lives in this horrific catastrophe.

brickster69

It's all about the thing in the sky isn't it ? Something flashes and boom a second later while missiles are all heading east. The flash in the sky came from the sea zone.

https://twitter.com/tooms006/status/1714633325443215807

Sir_Name

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121255022#Comment_121255022

Not comparing apples and apples to be honest, however I get the sentiment. Not a shock either you don't mean Israelis should protest against their government...

TomTomTim

https://twitter.com/ariehkovler/status/1714604789286252554

Interesting

nacho libre

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121254935#Comment_121254935

That works both ways walshb. As this thread and others show there will also always be Irish people who defend Israel no matter what they do.

rolling boh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121255022#Comment_121255022

What hold do Hamas have over the people and is there anybody or group that would get out to protest ?.We had similar questions as to why Russian people were not out protesting .There is blame on both sides but ultimately there has to some settlement. if Hamas could be stood down that could be a start but that looks very remote at this point .Also if Israel would stop electing hawks into power that might help as well . Very depressing watching this unfold .