Hamas strike on Israel - mod warning in OP updated 19/10/23

Rezident

Why does "progressive" Ireland support violently homophobic Palestine? Genuine question, it does not make sense. Is the Irish support for Palestine a relic of the IRA? I saw a lot of Palestinian flags in the Republican areas of Belfast. In reality, Palestine is nothing like Ireland, and after the radical Islamists kill the Jews in Israel, the rest of us "infidels" are next, probably starting with the LGBT community.

The LGBT people who attack Israel and support Palestine - what do you think the radical Islamists will do with gay people, aside form the official ten years in prison according to Hamas? Can nobody else see how completely insane this situation is?

Cluedo Monopoly

https://twitter.com/UNRWA/status/1717878743681663457

UNRWA= United Nations Relief And Works Agency

Wolf359f

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121296363#Comment_121296363

The Nagasaki bomb detonated right above factories supplying the war. Would you consider that a valid target?

Hiroshima was a major port and military base (20k out of 120k dead where soldiers), a valid target?

We have numbers for Hiroshima, 1 in 6 dead were soldiers, 5 in 6 civilians, is that disproportionate?

If the IDF bombed a building and killed 50 civilians to take out 10 Hamas.... is that disproportionate?

unkel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121296659#Comment_121296659

The best attempt at clutching at straws I have ever seen, congrats, dude!

The atomic bombs on Japan and the allied bombs on Europe were war crimes. One could argue they were necessary, but this current regional war has nothing to do with war crimes or the necessity to commit them.

Wolf359f

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121296685#Comment_121296685

I'm asking you about IDF attacks being disproportionate. Amnesty have documented war crimes in Gaza by the IDF. People here dismiss the claims as they believe it's proportionate. Wiping out entire families, targeting civilians etc... something something about Hamas in tunnels under building etc...

These are agencies on the ground in Gaza gathering evidence of such claims and people dismiss them so easily.

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121296566#Comment_121296566

Israel isn't invading Gaza for gay rights. This is not a real argument in favor of bombing civilians to hell, is it?

greenpilot

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121296566#Comment_121296566

I've actually sat and stared at your post, incredulously, for quite a while, practically dumbfounded at it's naivety and daftness.

So, let me get this right. You're worried that a population of a region, predominantly made up of children, will turn their "violently homophobic" ethos against the rest of the gays of Europe. Do you honestly believe that the sexual orientation of a privileged, entitled, immature, narrow-minded, over-indulged and frankly world-ignorant tiny section of our first-world society is top of the Palestinian people's priority list at the moment?

You do realise that there are thousands of children, some of who are absolutely gay, being savagely brutalized by a country who's radical religious elements also frowns upon such sexual orientation. Do you think that the Palestinian paramedics desperately trying to save children right now as you sleep soundly in your nice secure bed, are making the choices whether to save a clearly homosexual teenager, or a straight teenager in the bombed-out treatment centres?

Did you study history in school? If you did, it shouldn't even enter your mind, homosexual or otherwise, why Ireland supports the oppression of a people, regardless of their views on whether someone likes a penis or a vagina. Do you think that there are no Muslim LGBT citizens? Have you ever been to Afghanistan or Pakistan or read about the homosexual culture in Muslim nations? In fact, have you ever left your soft, squishy bubble of comfort you so desperately cling to for fear that, after the nasty, queer-bashing Palestinian teens have wiped out their enemies, they're coming straight to Europe to seek you out?

Having been to Gaza, Jordan, the Golan Heights, Syria and Iraq, I can guarantee you that your sexual preferences, or anyone elses, is the last thing on the minds of the Palestinian people.

Finally, at your next opportunity, travel to the middle East and try and find the nation you keep referring to as Palestine. Thanks to the British and Israeli governments, you may have some difficulty.

nacho libre

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121295658#Comment_121295658

The history of successful targeted assassinations of top Hamas leaders over the years would suggest otherwise. Mahmoud Al-Zahar is one of the few Hamas leaders to live into old age. Mossad have infiltrated Hamas very well over the years. In this current conflict the Israeli have tracked down and killed most of those involved in the October 7th attacks due to good intelligence. Shizwar and Dief are among the few leaders still left alive in Gaza.

BorneTobyWilde

Do Americans truly believe in God , and Jesus, or is it just a drum they bang to look high and mighty, to win votes in the bible belt. The American love in with Israel is weird to say the least. Americans love to bang on about the Lord, the Bible, God, Jesus, do they even read the Bible, because the Wrath of God is there, and it's aimed very much at Israel. So how do they balance that, with this endless love, as if you do truly believe in God, then surely you'd follow the Bibles view

The Lord’s anger burns against these people; his hand is raised and he strikes them down. The mountains shake, and the dead bodies are like refuse in the streets. Yet for all this, his anger is not turned away, his hand is still upraised. (Isaiah 5:25

The Bible passage above is from the prophet Isaiah, who is warning Israel that God’s judgment is coming. In fact, the entire chapter is one long indictment against the Jewish people of Israel. ''They’ve become corrupt and arrogant, and God has had enough.They had rejected the Lord, killed him, and utterly turned down His word and wisdom. The Lord in Heaven will not allow these people to defy Him without end. Now that era of wickedness is ending. Invading armies are coming to cause death and bodies will line the streets. ''

So yea, how do the Bible bashing Americans balance their beliefs against their interests ?

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121296879#Comment_121296879

I can't answer your question fully but may I at least present the new Speaker of the House of Congress:

https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2023/10/mike-johnson-seminars-christian-nation-speaker-far-right/

This is who will be authorizing any spending to Ukraine, Israel, etc. and this is the level of loony the US is reckoning with. Is it the majority of Americans no I don't think so, but it's a large enough and gerrymandered majority that they wield a frightening amount of power in the US political system. And a subset of them are hard set in sensational beliefs within the framework of abrahamic religious texts, particularly about the end times and who stands with Israel. This isn't just my own experience from personal interactions, it's been otherwise documented:

https://wapo.st/49etRg4

Wapo previews don't work on the current platform version here. Article is free though.

Add to that, many Americans believe it's the end-times

https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2022/12/08/about-four-in-ten-u-s-adults-believe-humanity-is-living-in-the-end-times/

Pew is also banjaxed:

And to be frank, these types are the same type who have been exploiting energy wealth in the middle east for decades on the part of the US, and century+ for Britain etc. they're the same types of conservatives who chair oil companies and suppress decades of climate research - you can sort of come to the suggestion that they've engineered the end-times.

https://www.cnn.com/2023/10/23/world/west-antarctic-ice-melt-climate/index.html

So maybe these are the end-times, I mean the US basically indicated aliens could for maybe be piloting UAPs but we're all like yeah cool sorry too busy focusing on avoiding nuclear war.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121296176#Comment_121296176

How do you differentiate between a Palestinian civilian and a Hamas supporter at a border crossing? Some would say they are not mutually exclusive states

Is there a uniform, membership card?

Should civilians fill in a form like the US visa one where they declare they aren’t a party member?

I just can’t see how that would work, and agree with you that it would not be simple.

PokeHerKing

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121296879#Comment_121296879

Zionist Christians believe that all the Jews need to be back at the scene of the crime in order for armageddon to kick off.

That and oil I reckon.

Weepsie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121296685#Comment_121296685

Hold on a minute. Someone else introduced Nagasaki and Hiroshima and said they were not on military targets, when they were as much so as many of the Israel bombs.

Don't open the door and piss and moan about it when it's called out

Cordell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121296879#Comment_121296879

So the devout Christians should support the genocide of the Jews because a questionable interpretation of a book from the OLD testament says so? Sick.

brickster69

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121295097#Comment_121295097

I think you will need to change " have " to " were " soon enough.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121296452#Comment_121296452

Hamas also told us 500 or even 800 people died in a hospital attack.

Their figures must absolutely be mistrusted.

brickster69

Big build up of military transporters sent East in the last 24 hours.

Another day, another threat from Israel to bomb a hospital.

https://twitter.com/PalestineRCS/status/1718551163128176881

nacho libre

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121297186#Comment_121297186

Yes, they must, but the figures regarding civilian deaths from the main Aid Agency there can be, and they have similar figures to the health ministry. You should also be skeptical of information coming from the IDF, given they have a history of lying too.

Weepsie

They also have a history of objustifcation and obstruction. They wouldn't coopearte with the FBI's request into the death of the journalist they murdered last year, Shireen Abu Akleh, and then said the UN investigation and investigator were anti-semites, a person that they had personally voted for and mandated to extend their role on the committee they had been on.

All of a sudden when it doesn't suit them they play the anti-semite card.

brickster69

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121297186#Comment_121297186

How many died ?

Cluedo Monopoly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121297211#Comment_121297211

Dr Mike Ryan of the WHO said Palestinians were sheltering on hospital grounds with the assumption that won't be bombed. He said there were 30,000 people at a single hospital site. He also said two thirds of the Gaza deaths so far are women and children. I find Ryan very balanced but he sounds so frustrated with the lack of aid getting in to the medical staff. He is a former surgeon and said the medical staff will never leave their patients no matter how horrific the situation is.

Shehal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121297211#Comment_121297211

Yeah but how many Israeli citizens have been killed?

tayto lover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121296565#Comment_121296565

You didn't look hard enough because you'll find that i did and snide comments won't stop me continuing. I have always only mentioned the deaths of innocent children as adult death could be contrived by people like you to be legit as they could have backed Hamas or Israel whereby children cannot be. It is still 3,595 murders of children by Israel and 40 murders of children by Hamas.

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121296215#Comment_121296215

What Hamas did to Israeli citizens back at beginning of October was terrible - a lot of bloodshed. And we'll park the reasons behind this. It was expected that Israel would retaliate and kill a couple of thousand people in Gaza. An eye for an eye in their book. But instead they have lost all reason and are bent on annihilation. Their response is completely and utterly disproportionate. And at least part of the reason for this is that Netanyahu thinks he has to show himself to be strong, in order to save his own pathetic political skin.

There are many Jewish people appalled at what Israel is doing. And it is up them worldwide to stand up and march on their own embassies and demand a cessation. I had Jewish lads in school with me, as good as any other and I'd have no problem with them, still know them via social media. But it is the state of Israel that has increasingly become a cancer.

tayto lover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121297438#Comment_121297438

I read his reports too. He is very fair and balanced unlike many others. Terrible what the innocents are going through.

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121297450#Comment_121297450

Israel was on the way to normalising relations with more and more other states in the Middle East. This is not the actions of a 'cancer' state, whatever that abhorrent term means.

So frankly your description of Israel as a 'cancer' is as utterly wrong as it is utterly offensive. You well know that if Hamas and Iran and their allies had their way, if Israel's defences failed, there would be a second Holocaust.

We saw what happened on October 7th, the echoes of SS death squads going door to door brutalising and brutally killing defenceless civilians with no pretext of any military target. These are not freedom fighters. These are murderers bent on exterminating Jews and infidels.

Israel is defending itself. Hamas have turned Gaza into an armed camp and bunker, used it to launch attacks against Israel from built up areas. This is on Hamas.

Cluedo Monopoly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121297439#Comment_121297439

The numbers here look up-to-date in comparison to numbers reported by reputable sources (Israel & International aid agencies)

2023 Israel–Hamas war - Wikipedia

Israeli casualties as a result of attacks and rockets from Hamas and other Palestinian terrorist groups

• 1,412 killed
• 5,132 wounded
• 234 abducted
• 100–200 missing

It's a disgusting war and it's very hard to see where the bloodshed will end...for this round even.

Tell me how

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121296487#Comment_121296487

The US, this past week elected as speaker of the House of Representatives, a man who has said that if anyone wants to understand his philosophy on anything all they have to do is read the Bible. His wife apparently runs a therapy business that equates homosexuality with beastiality. He has Saud that marriage is only acceptable if it's between a man and a woman.

Evangelical Christians in that country have said that the government should be directed by the church.

Countries such as Hungary, Russia (obviously) and even Poland in recent years have shown themselves to view gay people as inferior.

Anyone here over the age of 30 lived in an Ireland in which it was illegal to perform homosexual activity.

He'll, prominent posters supporting Israel here spent a lot of time on this platform targeting trans people.

So stop with this faux concern on behalf of gay people as to how they would be treated in Muslim countries.

Burty330

Bringing the worlds problems to your door step. The benifits of multiculturalism.

https://twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1718286316423569566

Cluedo Monopoly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121296838#Comment_121296838

Great post.

tayto lover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121297484#Comment_121297484

Are they anti-Israel or anti-war?

Wolf359f

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121297484#Comment_121297484

Looks like a pro Palestinian rally to me. What makes it anti-Israel in your mind?

Odhinn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121296487#Comment_121296487

A classic bit of colonial justification. Them natives need governing. Total nonsense.

Cluedo Monopoly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121296509#Comment_121296509

I will take that as a No.

Odhinn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121296537#Comment_121296537

The acquisition of territory by force is expressly illegal under international law. They have no "right".

tayto lover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121296877#Comment_121296877

I have read about Mossad knowing everything Hamas is planning before but where were they when October 7th was being planned? Is there something they're not telling us now?

Snooker Loopy

For eight decades, Israel has used the greatest historical outrage of all, the Holocaust, as the ultimate moral blackmail to buy the west's silence. Over those eight decades, Israel steadily became a monster. Every awful act that Israel committed could be justified because the Holocaust happened.

Nobody in a position of power in the west was prepared to stand up to Israel in any way, ever. Israel was enabled like an out of control son being enabled by a wealthy pushover father. Anything they wanted, they got. They spiralled more and more out of control.

Politicians in the west fell over themselves to be as pro-Israel as possible because they feared the consequences of not being seen to be as pro-Israel as possible. Ursula von der Leyen did, because she's German, and Nazi Germany committed the Holocaust, and Ursula von der Leyen feels German guilt and so goes full cheerleader for Israeli war excess. Keir Starmer does it because he wants power and wants to be seen to be the opposite of Jeremy Corbyn. Joe Biden does it because if you're not seen to be fanatically pro-Israel, you're toast in the US.

We never, ever hear of a western politician in a position of power calling for Israel to remove the illegal settlements in the West Bank. Never. Israel occupies the west bank. Each time Palestinians tried peaceful resistance, they were shot down completely. The BDS movement is an example of peaceful resistance. What happens? It's met with constant, furious cries of anti-Semitism. There is no resistance that cannot be anti-Semitic according to Israel's supporters. That's totalitarianism.

"Never again" is being used to justify "again".

xhomelezz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121297494#Comment_121297494

Well that's the question right? I'd say it's a mixed bag... Half of them probably doesn't even know why they are there..

Tell me how

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121297484#Comment_121297484

Ah yes, the mask slips.

McGiver

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121296838#Comment_121296838

Israel is a 1st world country where people actually have human rights and it is a liberal democracy (despite issues in the WB or the current government). You know like they can for example freely dance and be happy at an open-air festival before being murdered by Palestinian thugs.

In Israel all people including of any religious, political and sexual orientation are safe and free. And that includes Israeli Arabs. Thousand times more than in a theoretical Palestinian country and million times more than in Gaza.

It is absolutely certain that indeed independent Palestine would be an autocratic, islamist, corrupted, anti-democratic hell hole where people wouldn't be free - women would be abused, non-Muslims (and non-Arabs!) marginalised and persecuted, secularists and liberals jailed and oppressed. How can anyone in the democratic 1st world support this? I mean seriously, it's an insanity. I don't care about Palestinian "priority" if the above is almost certain outcome of the Palestinian end game.

Palestinians were Nazi allies during the WW2 and antisemites:

Subsequently, al-Husseini declared in November 1943:

It is the duty of Muhammadans [Muslims] in general and Arabs in particular to ... drive all Jews from Arab and Muhammadan countries... . Germany is also struggling against the common foe who oppressed Arabs and Muhammadans in their different countries. It has very clearly recognized the Jews for what they are and resolved to find a definitive solution [endgültige Lösung] for the Jewish danger that will eliminate the scourge that Jews represent in the world.

Hamas is an ally of Russia, Iran/Hesbollah and Syria - the most despicable ruthless autocratic regimes on the surface of the Earth. That enough is all one needs to know.

Everything else is just noise, whataboutism and nonsense.

Burty330

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121297560#Comment_121297560

Tell me again how pictures of Hamas are going to win end of year awards 🤡

Gatling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121297191#Comment_121297191

...

Danzy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121297494#Comment_121297494

They certainly are not anti war.

Snooker Loopy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121297571#Comment_121297571

Do democratic countries have the right to behave in monstrous ways towards others? Did we say "the US is a democracy, Iraq is not, therefore we should support the US waging war in Iraq?" Well, maybe some people did. They were bloody wrong.

And what Israel is doing to the Palestinians is worse than what the US did in Iraq.

tesla_newbie

You have to wonder if the hawks ( like BIBI) see this as a golden opportunity to finally firmly and decisively deal with what they see as the Palestinian problem?

would they retake all of Gaza and exile the entire two million population?

the American public won’t back boots on the ground in Ukraine but will happily sign a blank cheque for any action at the behest of Israel

Burty330

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121297494#Comment_121297494

Where were they when Saudis terrorized Yemen? 350k murdered since 2015

Where are protesters against Irans morality thugs battering young girls to death?

Why is it you don't see angry intimidating demonstrations against Russia?

Sudden Valley

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121297470#Comment_121297470

Israel has normalised its realionship with most of the Arab states which is good thing but its not suffering an existential threat from anyone unless you think Iran can suddenly leapfrog countries to invade israel. Thankfully Israel has defences in place to swat any attacks against it.

Israel has gone beyond defence and is now killing civilians in a ghetto it helped create, an actionable reminiscent of actions taken in world war 2.

And stop with the nonsense that anything Israel does that can be considered bad is on hamas. The bad things Hamas did should not be blamed ion Israelso vice versa. If a state acts like a terrorist to attack a terrorist then they are becoming a terrorist too. They are terrorising the civilians of Gaza.

tesla_newbie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121295690#Comment_121295690

Israel don’t give a fig about the so called “ PR battle “ and they are not at all loosing it in America, the only place they care about

tayto lover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121297571#Comment_121297571

Well thanks for telling us that you support all that is happening. Your post says everything.