Hamas strike on Israel - mod warning in OP updated 19/10/23

Cordell · 29-10-2023 11:26pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121300092#Comment_121300092

That's some apologist BS.

Reality:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FWhwLUw5stI

It's their own parents who makes them into that.

mikeoc85 · 29-10-2023 11:27pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121300129#Comment_121300129

2 million? 50% of the population are children. So you’re saying over 1 million children are Hamas members?

There is no justification for the atrocities that are currently taking place in Gaza. It goes way beyond self defence. It’s a mad right wing government punishing innocent people for the crimes of Hamas.

It needs to be stressed that none of this bombing has a chance to hurt Hamas except for rare exceptions. They are in tunnels that were reportedly dug 6+meters below the surface to keep them safe from IDF bunker busters

Which the IDF knows full well, which is why the bombing they are carrying out is so dastardly. They are bombing all of Gaza's civilian structures in order to kill as many Arabs as they can, hoping if they can kill maybe half of them, the other half can be terrorized into fleeing to Egypt

Israel certainly deserve to bring Hamas to justice, it would benefit the entire region…but this bombing isn’t the way forward

Overheal · 29-10-2023 11:44pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121300071#Comment_121300071

That has vastly more to do with the creation of Department of Homeland Security and a complete reimagining of the security holes that would allow such an attack to ever be carried out again.

The war on terror killed almost a million people directly, killed millions more indirectly, and resulted in 38 million displaced people. At over $8T.

It wasn't a good outcome in the name of 2,977 lives.

ollkiller · 29-10-2023 11:55pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121299941#Comment_121299941

Theres around 1.4 million people displaced in gaza right now. How do you think they would view a ceasefire.

Snooker Loopy · 29-10-2023 11:56pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121300187#Comment_121300187

200,000 children have been abused by Roman Catholic clergy in Spain since 1940. I presume you apply the same rigorous standards of critique to Catholicism as you do to Islam. From your other post it would appear not.

Strazdas · 30-10-2023 12:01am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121300129#Comment_121300129

Current estimates are that Hamas has only around 20k or 25k members.

Cheerful S · 30-10-2023 12:09am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121300097#Comment_121300097

Russia has no interest in engaging in this war for reasons you think, due to the potential risks it poses to its ally, Syria, and its leader. Most of the weapons used by Hezbollah and the Syrian forces are believed to be supplied by Iran. This illicit network of smuggling allows Iran to smuggle large quantities of weapons and military equipment into Lebanon and Syria, bolstering the capabilities of these militant groups.A high-intensity war between Hezbollah in Lebanon has the potential to spread to Syria, where they also maintain a presence. The presence of Russian forces in Syria adds complexity to the situation, and there is a desire to avoid further US involvement in terms of airstrikes and bombings there against Assad and causing that state to fall apart.

Russia is home to one of the largest Jewish populations outside of Israel. The presence of Russian Jews among the Hamas hostages further adds to the complexity of the situation, emphasizing the need for immediate action by the Russians to secure their release. So that meeting had an agenda.

The reduced focus on Ukraine and the shifting American attention towards Israel yes does provide Russia with increased diplomatic breathing space. It is not correct to claim Russia wants instability in that region.

The ongoing situation involving Hamas can be viewed as a geopolitical affair, primarily due to Israel's efforts to normalize its relations with Arab and Muslim nations while distancing itself from Iran. As of now, Iran and its proxies have not shown any signs of normalizing ties, indicating their reluctance to support the peace process until they can secure their own interests. The action that took place on October 7th appears to have been a significant part of a larger operation aimed at permanently disrupting all ongoing peace talks. The action that occurred on October 7th went further than its initiators could have imagined, I think?

It is quite evident that countries that are normalizing ties with Israel are not expressing strong words of action, like Turkey or Iran. This lack of strong rhetoric may indicate that most Middle Eastern states are likely prepared to abandon Hamas and rid themselves of its influence. However, a complication arises due to the fact that the populations within these countries can be more militant than their rulers. This poses a challenge in terms of achieving a comprehensive resolution to the ongoing conflict. here with constant images of destruction on TV and civilian deaths.

Danzy · 30-10-2023 12:17am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121300092#Comment_121300092

Some real Weimar era stuff there Timberrr

jmreire · 30-10-2023 12:20am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121300071#Comment_121300071

Believe me Uncle, if you happened to be in Afghanistan at that time, ( as I was ) you would remember it twice as much.... LOL. Unforgettable, in fact!!!😅

ceadaoin. · 30-10-2023 12:20am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121299789#Comment_121299789

I'd say some european and US cities aren't far away from scenes like this. It really doesn't take much for people to feel emboldened to express their hatred of Jews. It's only going to get worse. How sad that only a few generations after the holocaust, many Jews no longer feel safe in their own countries.

jmreire · 30-10-2023 12:26am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121300087#Comment_121300087

But the problem is that these Islamists exist in many Country's, they are not just confined to Palestine ( unfortunately. See whats happening now in Makhachkala airport, Dagestan ) And we are seeing multiple well supported protests even in European city's. And while I'm not saying that all these protesters are hard line Islamists, you can be 100% sure that a % of them are. Just look at how vitriolic some of the speakers are.

Gatling · 30-10-2023 12:27am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121300154#Comment_121300154

Hundreds of those videos,

Cowards hiding behind kids and skirts

Gatling · 30-10-2023 12:30am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121300287#Comment_121300287

And people will still tell us multicultural Europe is a eutpoia,it will start with Jews and then they will turn to other groups even those who wave their Palestinian flags or share trendy hashtags

Danzy · 30-10-2023 12:31am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121300297#Comment_121300297

Certainly it is a problem but one can't blame the Israelis for defending themselves and wider humanity by fighting them, not that you are.

They look at things differently from modern Europeans, they believe that their own lives and society have worth and that long term security matters, that society matters.

It's no wonder that the marches against them are so big in Europe.

unkel · 30-10-2023 12:32am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121300190#Comment_121300190

In the name of 2977 lives? No idea why you seem so obsessed by numbers. You keep posting the number of people supposedly killed in Gaza as published by Hamas. Ad nauseam.

This is not a 1 for 1. This does not end when there is 1 person killed in Gaza for every 1 person murdered by Hamas in Israel on October 7th. You might as well stop those posts, they are meaningless and they don't accomplish anything.

Danzy · 30-10-2023 12:35am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121300287#Comment_121300287

It's open season and it won't be opposed, there will be concerted action to hold account after though.

Sad truth is that Jews no longer have a future in Western Europe.

unkel · 30-10-2023 12:40am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121300187#Comment_121300187

I'm not an expert but from what I read, Muhammad married Aisha when he was about 50 and she was 6. He "consummated" the marriage (had sexual intercourse or in other words he raped her) when she was 9. Lovely chap. And this is not from some new woke ideas of what is appropriate. This was wrong back then too.

Cheerful S · 30-10-2023 12:43am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121300250#Comment_121300250

The kidnapping of civilians is a war crime that has severe consequences, not only for the victims and their families but also for the legitimacy of the perpetrators. Hamas, by engaging in the abduction and hostage-taking of innocent civilians, undermines its credibility as freedom fighters. Hamas has the right to fight against the occupiers' military, but it does not have the right to target and murder Israeli civilians.

The Israeli military is showing panic here and is trying to destroy Gaza out of bloodlust. The absence of strong international leadership in addressing the situation in Israel is disheartening. Statements alone are insufficient to bring about the necessary change. Israel needs to feel the pressure from world leaders. Pushing Palestinians to leave Gaza has significant consequences, particularly when they have nowhere else to go. This forced displacement not only affects the individuals and families who are uprooted from their homes, but also has wider implications for the region. Jordon and Egypt called this a red line for them.

The situation in Gaza currently poses a strategic challenge for Hamas. If the group was to lose control over the northern areas of Gaza, it may opt to relocate to the southern parts of the region. The consequences of such a development would not only impact the people of Gaza but also have wider implications for the Middle East as a whole. The wiping out of an entire city is an extreme scenario watched on tv that would undoubtedly have far-reaching consequences.

Wolf359f · 30-10-2023 12:45am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121300309#Comment_121300309

But America didn't start the war on terror in '93 with the trade center bombing that killed 6. Israel didn't go on a massive unprecedented bombing campaign on Gaza before when Hamas killed Israelis. So what made those 2 events (9/11 & Oct 7) different? Perhaps the massive loss of life? But that would be just being obsessed with numbers right?

unkel · 30-10-2023 12:51am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121300335#Comment_121300335

Not sure what your point is. A bit of Islam extremist terrorism, killing a few people either in the USA or in Europe or in Israel never really goes answered. But an unprecedented attack magnitudes bigger, against a formidable power that is not lame nor cowardish (like the USA or Israel), will be punished. Hard.

Numbers don't really come in to it much. And that's from me. I'm a numbers guy normally.

Strazdas · 30-10-2023 12:51am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121300317#Comment_121300317

Judaism or religion in general is not the issue here. This conflict is much more tribal / political in nature....it's definitely not about religious differences.

Wolf359f · 30-10-2023 12:57am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121300346#Comment_121300346

magnitudes bigger

There you go, it's all down to numbers. Do you really think Israel would be bombing Gaza with an unprecedented amount of bombs, if Hamas killed a dozen civilians?

There has been Islamic terrorism in the US and Israel before, but it never led to the war on terror or this current bombing campaign in Gaza. The only difference is the loss of lives.... the number of lives lost.

jmreire · 30-10-2023 12:59am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121300109#Comment_121300109

When you are fighting an enemy who believes that if he is killed fighting for Allah, then he will die a martyr and go straight to Heaven. Now there's an offer few could refuse!!! Actually, the real miracle is that not every Muslim in the world is taking up the offer. Even so, still too many do and will continue to do.

jmreire · 30-10-2023 1:06am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121300335#Comment_121300335

What made this Hamas attack so different to what had gone before was the sheer scale and savagery of the attack. It was a full on military attack, well planned and executed. It was Israels Sept 11th.

Danzy · 30-10-2023 1:12am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121300348#Comment_121300348

It certainly is. By the standards of most wars and especially Wars in that region, Israel are careful and mindful of civilian dead and I accept they rough and tough.

People still think of Palestine as dominated by left leaning movements like Fatah and plo.

Long gone. Those movements were the product of Palestinian rich kids going to elite European universities in the 60s and 70s and buying into socialism.

Hamas decolonized that space, and sent the socialist influenced packing there are still videos of Fatah and plo men tied to driving cars bouncing off the street.

The Plo and Fatah leadership used view the palestinian cause in terms of nationalism and statehood, this is now though and that's long in the past.

Wolf359f · 30-10-2023 1:16am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121300365#Comment_121300365

Yes, it was based on the numbers involved. The numbers of attackers and the number of victims. Numbers.....

So when people mention the thousands dead, it's for a reason.

Why people get attacked on this thread mentioning the number of civilians killed in Gaza is troubling. Like their deaths don't matter because Israeli lives matter more. The usual excuses are they are made up figure from Hamas, despite over the years, Hamas figures being accurate and both the UN and Israeli estimates corroborate it. To, oh they voted for Hamas. To oh there's tunnels, Hamas in that apartment building and to the new one, everyone in Gaza is Hamas.

Cheerful S · 30-10-2023 1:18am

The decision made by former President Donald Trump to withdraw from the Iranian nuclear deal was indeed a significant event. This action had a profound impact on the relationship between Iran and the West. It marked the first time since 1979 that Iran had engaged in negotiations with Western powers, signaling a potential shift towards normalization.

Americans need to wake up and recognize the importance of robust security agreements, ensuring that they are not easily discarded by future presidents. This is particularly crucial when these agreements have not been violated. It is essential to note that no international inspector supported the claims made by the US and Israel regarding Iran's secret enrichment for nuclear weapons. The repercussions of this baseless allegation can be observed in the current destabilizing actions by Iran in the region since.

One aspect that often goes unnoticed is the West's tendency to occasionally overlook its own destabilizing actions.

unkel · 30-10-2023 1:27am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121300376#Comment_121300376

Maybe it's just me but I can't seem to find much coherence in your post. Personally I don't have a lot of trouble accepting the number of people who died in Gaza from the official Hamas figures. It's a tragedy. The people in Gaza did freely and democratically elect Hamas though. Who stated they wanted to kill all jews. Which is what they are finally trying to do. But thankfully it won't work, they won't succeed. They will fail and hopefully they will be exterminated.

Danzy · 30-10-2023 1:37am

https://youtu.be/yeaI_9eijNc?si=mGcCa6qrGOF_17bd

French police marching into push back against the fash at a Palestinian solidarity march.

Wolf359f · 30-10-2023 1:46am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121300389#Comment_121300389

In the name of 2977 lives? No idea why you seem so obsessed by numbers. You keep posting the number of people supposedly killed in Gaza as published by Hamas. Ad nauseam.

When you add supposedly, it take away from the not having trouble accepting figures from Hamas.

To repeat what people have said before that Hamas were not elected with a majority in 2006, they were funded by Israel to balance Fatah. Hamas in turn killed off the opposition etc... Half of Gaza now, were too young to vote back in 2006, and less than half of the other half could have potentially voted for Hamas..... and you're a numbers guy?

unkel · 30-10-2023 1:53am

@wolf359 - "When you add supposedly, it take away from the not having trouble accepting figures from Hamas"

Fair enough. I'll state now that I have no problem accepting figures from Hamas going forwards. And I really never thought they would be that far off actual figures (unlike some other posters here) as the truth would probably come out at some point.

BorneTobyWilde · 30-10-2023 2:16am

https://streamable.com/pa9zpf

..

We're innocently standing by

Watching people lose their lives

It seems as if we have no voice

It's time for us to make a choice

Only god should decide

Who will live and who will die

There's nothing that can't be done

If we raise our voice as one

They've gotta hear it from me

They've gotta hear it from you

They've gotta hear it from us

We can't take it

We've already had enough

Overheal · 30-10-2023 2:58am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121300309#Comment_121300309

If it were 1:1 that would be an historical improvement. But Palestinians are killed in disproportion -- as it has been argued, this is a display of geopolitical 'respect?' the 'right to respond with overwhelming force'

I don't know why there is such hostility to posting numbers.

Overheal · 30-10-2023 3:00am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121300105#Comment_121300105

What options are they being shown which are positive?

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/israel-palestinian-footballer-shoot-video-sniper-protest-gaza-idf-a8288496.html

Overheal · 30-10-2023 3:02am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121300356#Comment_121300356

This is the clone of antisemitism. Islamaphobia, correct?

lumphammer2 · 30-10-2023 3:12am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121300382#Comment_121300382

+1 ... Trump or whoever decided to withdraw from JCPOA made a very bad decision ... as if it were done to deliberately ruin relations between Iran and the West ... and to aid hardliners to defeat Iran's then moderate govt ... that is exactly what happened ... of course Netanyahu as well as the Saudis favoured this outcome and got it thanks to rookie pres Trump and his hardliner advisors no doubt in the pockets of Netanyahu ...

Americans do need to wake up and stop pursuing stupid policies obo wannabe dictators like Netanyahu and decadent monarchies like Saudi Arabia ... Iran was in a good place and going better places before this stupid decision was made ...

This current mess has a lot to do with leaving JCPOA and following Netanyahu no matter what ... Netanyahu is aligned to very far right parties which is ignored .... they are prob worse than Iran's current hardline Paydari regime if they got the chance ... I feel though all these hardliners .... Likud's pro-Netanyahu factions plus the other even further far right smaller parties in that current Netanyahu coalition ... the pro-Trump Republicans ... Paydari ... all feed off each other .... to the detriments of the moderates in all ...

If a change in govt in the US changes policy regarding agreements then there is no point in Iran or anyone else trusting them ... these agreements should stand and be legally binding with anyone trying to break them removed from office ... that would prevent some clown like Trump being pressurised by other clowns ... breaking these agreements also plays into the hands of Iran's hardliners who say I told you so to Iran's moderates ... and then Iran's women suffer and Iran's economic potential is not realised ... it is time that Trump and those who advised him ... who now prob blame it on Trump and distance themselves when it suits ... to face the consequences of their actions ... deals like JCPOA need to be written and stuck to no matter what freak is in the White House simple as ... Trump will go down as one of the very worst presidents that is for sure .... and Obama as one of the better ones .... Trump cannot come to terms with the fact that his presidency was a failure and that he was a weak and incompetent president ... he will tell you the opposite but it is just another example of his only talent: telling lies ...

Sir_Name · 30-10-2023 7:21am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121299995#Comment_121299995

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121300129#Comment_121300129

I am going to preface this by saying Hamas are terrorists and should be eradicated. However, this whole mantra of they are in civilian buildings etc etc has been explained to you numerous times and twice quite eloquently by Weepie. Gaza is is tiny - for context Gaza has approx 2.1 million people; Gaza city itself has a population of over 40k people per square mile. New York has something like 30k per square mile. I would hazard a guess, maybe an educated guess that all buildings have civilians in there.

The ignorance of your second post really stands out for me. A UN report in 2022, the Israeli blockage had made 78% of the water in Gaza undrinkable, left 62% of Palestinians in need of food assistance, and power cuts roughly for 11/12 hours a day. Really sound those lads, they just keep on giving!

Seamus4life - 2 million members of Hamas in Gaza? Such an easily invalidated statement, like shooting fish in a barrel. For both of you I would really recommend putting more thought and research into your posts. Literally only discrediting yourselves.

mikeoc85 · 30-10-2023 8:22am

This statement went pretty much under the radar

https://m.timesofindia.com/world/middle-east/netanyahu-cites-amalek-theory-to-justify-gaza-killings/amp_articleshow/104802548.cms

Any mention of Amalek is an explicit call for genocide. How aren’t EU leaders calling this out. They’re at pains to tell us why new hate speech legislation is required to protect minorities yet here is a world leader openly calling for the genocide of an innocent civilian population.

patnor1011 · 30-10-2023 8:35am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121300346#Comment_121300346

It is always a numbers game.

Just recently there was investigation in what you call "unprecedented attack magnitudes bigger" and results are not quite in line of what we are led to believe. It seems, according to the people who bothered with trying to find out what happened, that quite a lot of deaths which hapened during Hamas assault were caused by unproportional response of the IDF. They were unable to dislodge Hamas from places where they captured hostages which they planned to transfer to Gaza so decision was made to use tanks and helicopters. Result of that decission is painfully obvious and world seen destroyed houses and burned out civilians including children who were unfortunate to be in the houses as hostages along with Hamas operatives.

This was confirmed by several released hostages and people who were able to escape. Those were Israelis and their stories, also some interview with IDF personnel involved confirmed use of tanks and helicopters. These things do not usually make headlines, no wonder yet they are out there and can be verified.

Both sides of this conflict are wrong in what they did and still keep doing. Both sides are trying to portray itself as a victim and other one as evil when in fact both of them are in the wrong. This is no way of sorting out problems while ordinary people have to pay with their lives.

To add, every country which is funnelling weapons and money trying to keep this conflict going, the likes of Iran, Qatar, USA, and EU are equally evil and responsible for all the misery which is being caused there.

brickster69 · 30-10-2023 8:38am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121299941#Comment_121299941

Miles off. The reason it was voted down and abstained against was down to Canada's petition which was voted on beforehand. This included text which condemned only Hamas and the one afterwards condemned all parties in the text. So in fact it was voted against due to condemning Israel for it's actions and we all know we can't do that can we.

The Pakistan ambassador so eloquently shot it down.

https://twitter.com/KonstanVe/status/1718054720114213002

McGiver · 30-10-2023 9:28am

Ukrainian point of view.

https://twitter.com/IAPonomarenko/status/1718731286020227396?t=7IaoYlra1AVqDKjbKRIRjA&s=19

Russia, Iran + proxies Hesbollah, Syria and North Korea is an axis of evil trying to destabilise the whole world.

Hamas met Russian and Hesbollah leadership in recent days instead of, you know, doing something for Gazans. That's all one needs to know and what matters.

brickster69 · 30-10-2023 9:32am

UAE seeks a binding resolution demanding that Israel accepts a humanitarian pause to the fighting in Gaza in the UN security council today.

Sounds reasonable

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/oct/29/uae-calls-emergency-un-security-council-meeting-to-seek-pause-to-gaza-fighting

Danzy · 30-10-2023 9:33am

https://twitter.com/TylerLaRiviere/status/1718373911908303138/mediaViewer?currentTweet=1718373911908303138&currentTweetUser=TylerLaRiviere

Pro Palestinian activists taking the fight to a group of blacks people in America. Who is next or an easier question might be who isn't, fascism unbound and unchallenged is creating its own violent dynamic in our societies.

Tell me how · 30-10-2023 9:39am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121300346#Comment_121300346

A bit of Islam extremist terrorism, killing a few people either in the USA or in Europe or in Israel never really goes answered.

Never really goes answered?

Are you for real? If the US or Israel gets a sniff of someone in the middle east being involved in anything, or considering being involved in anything, that person becomes a target.

The last President in the US introduced a travel ban specifically motivated around what he thought was trouble emanating from Islamic countries.

The UK government and other high ranking political figures has been openly pointing fingers at people of Islamic backgrounds for at least ten years.

It's the epitome of western blinkered lenses to look at the affairs around acrimony between western countries and Islamic countries and to determine the evil deeds are allowed to be carried out bybone side.

McGiver · 30-10-2023 9:39am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121300000#Comment_121300000

Exactly. People don't understand the local context. Negotiation and making compromise aren't local strengths, culturally speaking.

In local Arabic culture you earn respect by winning. If you show weakness you won't get far. The whole area where Israel exists runs on a win-lose attitude, not on a win-win or making a compromise attitude (see Yemen, Lybia or Syria). That's why Israel was able to sign peace treaties with Egypt and Jordan only after showing strength, winning, getting respect and also trading territory (Sinai). If they didn't fight they wouldn't get anywhere and they know it.

Igotadose · 30-10-2023 9:42am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121300658#Comment_121300658

I'm not sure this reflects like you think it does on the Pro-Palestinian activists. The "Black Hebrew Israelites" are a cult that spouts some antisemitic nonsense. A bit more about them: https://www.ajc.org/news/who-are-the-black-hebrew-israelites