Hamas strike on Israel - mod warning in OP updated 19/10/23

Mullaghteelin

If Palestinians continue to support and vote for Hamas, it is very difficult, logically speaking, to see them entirely as blameless victims.

Their willingness to vote for blood-thirsty fanatics and uncivilized barbarity should be called out as part of the problem.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121212942#Comment_121212942

The IDF are supposed to be world leaders in intelligence gathering.

How can a British journalist know more about meetings and plannings than they did 3 days ago?

thomas 123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121212928#Comment_121212928

There we go - well tell that to the poster then and don’t just go around saying it’s due to some Israelies being Jewish.

See now your having a conversation - congratulations.

Shoog

Every IDF incursion into Gaza will result in hostage deaths. It's not obvious that it will end how people imagine it will. Loss of hostages will be unacceptable to Israel.

The hostages were taken for strategic reasons and will be a significant leaver in how this plays out.

Israel currently under heavy rocket attacks all throughout the country, including Ben Gurion Airport, according to recent reports.

tesla_newbie

a few things which are undeniable

israel is a country since 1948 and will remain a country

israel engages in land theft in order to grow

the Palestinians are penned in

the Arab countries in the region not only do fcuk all for the Palestinians, they use their plight cynically to pander to the prejudices of their own populations as a way of diverting attention from domestic troubles

all Arab cultures have a hang up about Jews and this is their issue to fix , Israel is stealing land but Israel is not the root cause of their ( Arab population, not Palestinian )problems

RoyalCelt

https://twitter.com/Heroiam_Slava/status/1711298303831236611?t=B9dxziNg9JN2pAZj981OVw&s=19

If they continue like this for a few months there will be nothing left just like Aleppo.

Francis McM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121212966#Comment_121212966

Israelis will not give in to blackmail. Israel will retaliate and rightfully so.

Shame on Sinn Fein for supporting Hamas. Not surprising I suppose, bit done terrorist attacks, kidnappings, etc.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121212961#Comment_121212961

Yes.

it’s not our fight, it’s not our problem and the damn countries already bursting at the seams.

Let someone else deal with it we can’t keep picking up the pieces when far away lands that have nothing to do with us start fighting.

Danzy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121212791#Comment_121212791

Given the scale of the attack, the dead, injured and kidnapped. There will be very few in Israel who are not friends with or related to someone involved. Proportionally it is much bigger than 9 11.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121212980#Comment_121212980

All of this death and destruction could have been avoided had Hamas not instigated this war against Israel.

Hamas cannot portray themselves as the victims here. Every death, both in Israel and Gaza, is a direct consequence of their reckless stupidity.

boetstark

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121212889#Comment_121212889

Have you actually informed yourself on the facts around the history of this conflict.

You do realise that this area was a homeland to Jewish people going back centuries.

The Balfour agreement post ww1 gave Palestinians a separate state.

The United nations general assembly in 1948 established 2 states. Accepted by Jews rejected by Palestinians and neighbouring Arabs.

Israel was attacked by surrounding countries in 1948 including Palestinians. Israel won that conflict and yes took more land than originally granted. 850000 Palestinians displaced and Jewish people from neighbouring Arab countries entered Israel.

1967 israel attacked again in 6 day war by a coalition of Arab states.

Oslo accord 1993 established a pathway for peace between Palestinian Authority and Israel.

But no once again the pa were ousted by Palestinians and hamas elected. This same Hamas who 100% want the state of Israel destroyed.

Please spare me the crap all you lefties hand wringing free Palestine propaganda. You haven't a clue , just jumping on a tag line.

Same in 70's and 80's anti apartheid movement. Destroyed a country , look at what it is now.

Neither party is an angel in this conflict but people need to read the history before making black and white opinions.

I believe in the right of Palestinians to exist in peace in their own homeland as prescribed by UN in 1948.

That Palestinian state must also respect the right of Israel to exist without the threat of destruction and terrorism as a constant threat.

Feisar

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121212982#Comment_121212982

Retaliate and rightfully so? Look at that video on twitter. Is that rightful retaliation? Innocents are being blown to bits. Two terrorist organisations going at it as far as I can see.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121212998#Comment_121212998

I agree; the sheer scale of the attack makes it worse than 9/11 for Israel.

US has a population of 330 million and suffered 3,000 deaths in 9/11. Israel has a population of just under 10 million, and suffered (so far) almost 800 deaths. As you say, proportionally, the scale of this attack can reasonably be considered their "9/11 moment".

howiya

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121212999#Comment_121212999

Some of this death and destruction could still be avoided.

Furze99

https://www.rte.ie/news/world/2023/1009/1409723-gaza-israel/

Only two words to describe this: War Crime

Israel will I fear go completely OTT and bitterly regret it afterwards.

Hummingbird Project

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121212940#Comment_121212940

The issue is the threat to the existence of Israel and the Jews. What happened in the holocaust justifies them disproportionately neutralising any threats to their races existence and homeland.

It is literally life or death for their race. Not the same for the Muslims in Gaza. They have the whole Middle East so these sob stories of imprisonment and torture are just that.

Why don’t the Gazans move elsewhere ? Why because they want to justify their hatred and bondage to a piece of land by invoking their own torture by refusing to quit and go elsewhere.

The bible guarantees Israel to the Jews. Any dispute of that fact is jealousy of Gods chosen race as stated in the bible. And hypocritically it comes from people who call themselves strict Catholics in Ireland. The hypocricy is unbelievable.

tesla_newbie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121212989#Comment_121212989

I said Israel is not the cause of the problems of other Arab populations, my point was that other Arab governments in the region point to Israel in order to distract from the domestic problems facing their citizens

even Israel withdraws to the 1967 border ( and they should) , it would not fix the hang up a lot of Arab populations have about a Jewish country being a neighbour, that is on them , not Israel

Shoog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121213011#Comment_121213011

Jews made up the smallest proportion of the population of Palestine before the Balfour declaration.

Almost all Zionists in Palestine were recent immigrants. A coordinated army of occupation.

The early Zionists forced the Balfour declaration by many acts of terrorism against the Arab population.

Finally the British had no right to gift lands that were not their own.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121213028#Comment_121213028

If Israel were not to respond forcefully, it would be considered weak - and this would embolden Hamas to orchestrate further attacks in the future.

There is no optimum solution here. What we can say with certainty is that it was completely avoidable.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121213011#Comment_121213011

What would be the difference between Russians moving into Eastern Ukraine, being granted all the land there by the Russian State and putting the previous owners into massive open air prison camps and Russians moving to the Middle East, being granted all the land there by the Russian State and putting all the previous owners into a massive open air prison camp? In the former they will claim that their ancestors originated there a few hundred years ago. In the latter, they claim a few thousand years. Essentially the Israelis were granted their initial land by Western countries (British)

It's not really a hypothetical question. If you are a Russian you (depending on how the war goes) might indeed to be able to travel to Donbas and get land granted to you as a settler. If you are a Russian who is Jewish, you could also exercise your right to return and go to Israel and be allowed to settle on land that was just stolen from Palestinians in the very recent past.

I think both are wrong.

JPCN1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121211979#Comment_121211979

not necessarily.

howiya

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121213044#Comment_121213044

Israel has already responded forcefully. Some of the death and destruction can still be avoided.

TedBundysDriver

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121213033#Comment_121213033

If they do go all out as now looks inevitable it will drag Iran and Lebanon at a bare minimum into the war. When that happens all bets are off and Tel Aviv may well end up more akin to Aleppo in 2016.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121212957#Comment_121212957

There hasn't been a vote since 2006.

So no, Palestinians don't continue to vote for Hamas and Hamas barely won that election.

Shoog

The Zionists get a free pass to commit genocide because they are Jews and the victims of the Nazi holocaust. It in no way excuses their behaviour since they occupied Palestine

tesla_newbie

Even someone opposes the concept of a “ Jewish state “ ( and I don’t by the way, it’s only the expansionism I oppose) , what happened Saturday is not military action, it was beastly

Cluedo Monopoly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121212957#Comment_121212957

Is there a possibility you would support/vote for Hamas if you lived in Gaza for that past 20 years? Living conditions in Gaza have got progressively worse over the last 20 years. Would you break?

Hamas have played into Israeli hands now. Israel will make living conditions in Gaza much much worse now and hope that Palestinians flee.

TedBundysDriver

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121213070#Comment_121213070

If anything they should be more aware and sensitive to the Palestinian situation because of the holocaust.

tesla_newbie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121213043#Comment_121213043

Zionist just means a belief in a Jewish state , there is nothing wrong with that, it’s erroneously used as a derogatory term and serves no useful purpose

you can oppose Israel stealing land while not having a problem with a Jewish state, surely one country can be officially Jewish?, their are countless officially Muslim states

lbunnae

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121212863#Comment_121212863

When did it say it was??? It was fuckin disgusting.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121213036#Comment_121213036

What are you on about with your hyperbolic nonsense. The probability of something being life or death over the next few weeks for a random toddler in Gaza is higher than for a professional Israeli soldier

lbunnae

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121212863#Comment_121212863

I think you tagged my post incorrectly. Of course it isn't resistance , it was horrific what they did.

lbunnae

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121213049#Comment_121213049

Good one.

TedBundysDriver

The Israeli minister of defence has just said they are fighting "human animals and will act accordingly".

Make no mistake, Israel is in the process of committing war crimes.

Israel is a terrorist state.

boetstark

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121213026#Comment_121213026

If you took the time to read my post you would see that I accepted Israel took more territory than was allocated in the 1948 agreement.

For right or wrong that was as a result of the Arab coalition attack. Spoils of war has happened in wars for centuries.

Apartheid as a policy that was introduced by Mr Vervoed. The policy was actually separate development for all races as some were so far ahead of others. All funded by SA government with the ideal of bringing all races up to European level. Yes this policy was abused. Bantustans were established to give various races their own independence and all this funded by government, 63% of national funding was spent on developing Africans just prior to 1994.

Anyway this forum is about current conflict. Hopefully common sense prevails on both sides.

Looking at posters unequivocally supporting Palestinians, taking into account their deliberate slaughter of women and children , that is vile my friend.

lbunnae

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121213068#Comment_121213068

Hey don't be coming here with logic!

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121213108#Comment_121213108

The Minister of Defence is talking about Hamas and its supporters, not ordinary Palestinian civilians.

If Islamic Jihad killed 800+ people in Dublin, some of whom you knew, I think your response to Dublin responding harshly to those involved in that mass murder would be very, very different. And no, I don't believe you'd then label Ireland a "terrorist state" for responding accordingly.

howiya

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121213112#Comment_121213112

Is it ok to support the Palestinian people that haven't engaged in the slaughter of women and children?

Steviemak7

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121213076#Comment_121213076

That's the fear now for innocent Palestinians in Gaza. 42% of population is under 15*. They are trapped in Gaza with no way out and will be slaughered in their thousands.

Hamas have a fertile recruiting ground in a desperate and hopeless population.

* www.indexmundi.com/gaza_strip/demographics_profile.html 

Shoog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121213089#Comment_121213089

I have no problem with a Jewish state (which is by definition Zionism so to call it such is nothing if not descriptive), I have a huge problem with a Jewish state in the Levant.

Snooker Loopy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121212957#Comment_121212957

I despair at comments like this. This logic also says that if you voted for Netanyahu or those even further to the right in Israel you're not a blameless victim if somebody from Hamas machine guns you as you drive down the road. It says that if you voted for Ian Paisley and were blown up by a Provo bomb, you're not a blameless victim. It says that if you voted for Gerry Adams and are standing in a bookies' shop on the Ormeau Road and a UFF gunman comes in and shoots you to death, you're not a blameless victim. This "logic" can be applied to any conflict in the name of justifying butchery.

howiya

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121213119#Comment_121213119

How will they distinguish between Hamas and its supporters and ordinary Palestinian civilians when implementing a policy of blockading the "admission of food, electricity and fuel"

boetstark

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121213123#Comment_121213123

Every human on this planet has the right to live in peace and have a say in their own self determination.

That comes with the expectation that your neighbours also have those rights.

The elected leaders of Palestinian people want to have a Palestinian state for Palestinian people. Only problem is they have an ideology that this right to exist does not extend to its neighbouring country , Israel.

nacho libre

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121213033#Comment_121213033

You fail to understand their mentality. They won't a regret thing. The only way they might be deterred is if America took away their support/ diplomatic cover, but America won't be doing that anytime soon. Hamas could be gambling on this lasting long enough for America to reign in Israel. I think this calculation is wrong. Israel are not going to stop till Hamas is completely finished in Gaza. I don't think action will be confined to Gaza either. Sadly thousands of Palestinians civilians are going to pay the ultimate price for all this . Hamas don't give a crap about their own people that's the harsh reality, the more they suffer the better it seems for their propaganda purposes.

Sudden Valley

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121213137#Comment_121213137

That doesn't sound like the actions of a civilized state.

If they call what happened at the weekend a 9-11 for Israel what will they call the much larger killing of civilians in Gaza over the next few weeks? Hamas can not be allowed to continue to run Gaza for both Israel and the ordinary Gazans sake but killing hundreds of Gazan civilians is a cruel act and should be condemned.

Augme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121213157#Comment_121213157

Israel aren't going to stop until Palestinians are finished in Gaza. They don't give a **** about the distinction as to whether they are Hamas or not. Their goal is the extermination of Palestinians. Let's not pretend otherwise.

Donald Trump

Saw this on NY Times. Picture from an Israeli strike on a marketplace

The fella on the left wouldn't look out of place with a corner back junior B jersey

Burty330

The heads of hamas will be nowhere near the areas currently being turned to rubble. I'd rather see Israel target the generals, commanders and splatter them like Trump did with Soleimani. That will happen eventually but in the meantime I can't support raining down hellfire and destroying everything in sight.

thomas 123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121213190#Comment_121213190

Could be a an aid worker.