Hamas strike on Israel - mod warning in OP updated 19/10/23

Weepsie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121331639#Comment_121331639

That's some reach. Putting people into the firing line of your own rockets is worlds apart from housing policy. This is it now. Everything being dumbed down into nonsense . No actual thought or attempt to debate the morality what Israel is actually doing to 2 million people right now.

m2_browning

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121331664#Comment_121331664

No attempts to debate morality of Hamas blocking gates and hence preventing people leaving

Weepsie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121331677#Comment_121331677

They had one fair point. They want assurances that injured people will be allowed leave for treatment, but ambulances are being bombed. And again, you keep posting to an article which says nothing about Hamas blocking. Just that sources have said the gate is closed. I actually fully believe that it's Hamas keeping it closed, but I was hoping you'd find something a bit more authoritive than a fairly loosely worded BBC story, especially given how quickly any independent story that might take an alternative view is immediately shat on by anyone.

Plus all of a sudden we believe what Hamas say, because it suits a certain logic, but we won't believe their casualty count etc

And if we are getting into the morality debate. It is israel who has besieged 2 million of them. Not Hamas. Israel are the Prison Guards, Hamas are the awful gang inside. They both have blood on their hands and both must be held accountable.

Israel does not get a free pass.

Nermal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121327885#Comment_121327885

On October the 7th we saw terrorists engage in deliberate torture, murder and defilement of civilians and then celebrate and rejoice in their depravity.

Show us the evidence of the IDF doing the same, or give up the moral bankruptcy of suggesting they are 'no more or less' savage than Hamas.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121331581#Comment_121331581

Oh dearie me, another one who doesn't understand international law.

It is a war crime to take civilian hostages, have you forgotten that?

Under international law, countries are allowed discriminate against other citizens in terms of immigration and entry. If the refugee situation has not taught you that, do you not remember the safe countries issue when travel started after Covid? This is pretty basic stuff. Why do you think we require visas from Russians and Chinese but not from Americans?

Not about mistreatment, just about what is allowed under international law.

Gatling

This went under the radar originally believed to have been kidnapped Along side her father, Ruth Peretz funeral take place after being murdered on October 7th she muscular dystrophy and cerebral palsy and was confined to a wheelchair,

Freedom fighters hey !

https://twitter.com/Alan__Shatter/status/1721204651595342315?s=20

Cordell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121331670#Comment_121331670

Or maybe the people who allow morality police to exist are not that wonderful. The people of Iran built that country, Iran is a horrible country, if we are to judge them collectively as the people of Iran then they aren't that wonderful, quite the contrary. I'm sure among them there are indeed wonderful people, but they are in the minority.

jmreire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121330531#Comment_121330531

Thats their plan, and if you have watched any of the protests in Europe, you will see Hamas / ISIS flags flying. Believe me, Hamas have wider goals than the Gaza strip, this is just the stepping stone. They don't give a damn for the Palestinians, they are just then means to an end. Why do you think that Neither Jordan or Egypt want to accept Palestinian refugees? Because they know from bitter experience what happened the last time they did accept them. In both cases, they fomented protests and attempted to overthrow the governments. No Thanks

Beta Ray Bill

https://www.breakingnews.ie/israel-hamas/gaza-city-encircled-as-israel-splits-territory-into-two-1548178.html

I'd mentioned before that Israel would probably do a land grab, and it was dismissed, looks like it could be happening now.

Gaza city has been completely encircled. I don't think has happened before. (In recent history)

Gatling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121331732#Comment_121331732

There was a case recently where a woman who was being regularly beaten and raped by her husband snapped and killed him ,his family had her young daughter execute her ,

Hamas weapons come from Iran , Hizbollah weapons come from Iran,the houtiti rebels in Yemen comes from Iran , multiple terrorist militias operating in Iraq are paid for and armed by Iran ,the Iranian militia operate in Syria against the Syrian people.

m2_browning

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121331706#Comment_121331706

What do you consider more authoritative than BBC, they clearly stated that Hamas refuse to comment probably because they realise how them confirming again that they are scum won’t play well with lefties around the world

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121331726#Comment_121331726

Lol. Unless you are qualified in law, or have at least studied it formally in some sense, it is not a good idea to be sh1te'ing on at what you assume anonymous people on the internet do or do not know. You go on to talk about immigration policy as if it generally falls under that category.

'Tis funny. Irrelevant, but funny.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121331758#Comment_121331758

Do you know anyone from there?

Weepsie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121331726#Comment_121331726

which is why we have agreements. Israel and IReland do not require Visas for it citizens to enter one another's country.

m2_browning

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121331769#Comment_121331769

Do you dispute that the Islamic Republic (sic) treats half of its population not equally and like second class citizens?

Weepsie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121331732#Comment_121331732

Then all of us Irish are complete and utter shitheads given we allowed ourselves be dictated by our own de facto morality police in the CAtholic church.

Couldn't be that it is imposed by a de facto dictatorship and the millions of decent ordinary citizens. Nope. Let's tar them all with the same plain old xenophobic smear.

jmreire

Yes. you are right, as has happened in other Country's, most would be locals, but the main influence and driving force would be radical Islamists /ISIS supported by Iran. In Syria ISIS recruited locals too, but foreigners were in the majority as Muslims from all over the world headed for Syria and Dabiq, the final battle, where Islam would triumph. Maybe Gaza is the start of Dabiq 2 for them?

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121331772#Comment_121331772

That wasn't the question or issue. And you know it.

Weepsie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121331743#Comment_121331743

And this was pretty much called by Norman Finkelstein in the first few days too.

PLus they've been grabbing land for weeks prior.

Gatling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121331782#Comment_121331782

A good few speakers at these so call protests have been openly calling for the Caliphate ,Key Goal of Isis was the Islamic caliphate removing every country in the middle east in the process,

And we're only a few years out from the end of Isis in Iraq and Syria

m2_browning

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121331784#Comment_121331784

You went on a rant about equal treatment on this page

you don’t see the hypocrisy in supporting shithole Islamist regimes that don’t even treat their own equally?

m2_browning

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121331801#Comment_121331801

See I didn’t at any stage on this thread claim Israelis are “lovely people” (like someone above referred to Islamic numpties in Iran)

in fact I have repeatedly called them out for the appalling atrocities being committed in anger on this thread probably as much as I called out Hamas for being a death cult who can put an end to the bloodletting they started by releasing prisoners

Tell me how

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121331722#Comment_121331722

So there is no doubt, let me mention once again that I have continuously denounced Hamas for their barbaric acts.

The evidence of the IDF doing the same is in front of all of our eyes, if what we have been shown is not enough for you to see the way evil has taken over their focus, nothing I say or show you will change that.

So use me not showing pictures of fathers holding their dead children with their torso's missing as justification for you to claim some sort of moral obligation to continue to support the genocide of the Palestinians, if that is what you want to do.

Everyone is going to have to live with the memory of their own standing on this when it is something that is referred to in the past. On here, people will be able to delete posts, delete their accounts, change their names or so on. But internally, they will know themselves that the next time the phrase 'Never again' is mentioned, they will have to add 'Except ....' in their own mind and deal with what that says about who they truly are.

jmreire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121330580#Comment_121330580

Yes, if you want to compare " Precision" versus "Random" bombing's, look no further than Damascus, where parts of it are completely demolished, and towns and villages outside of the city completely levelled, as in just the stumps of buildings left. Entire streets blocked to all but pedestrian traffic,( Like Yarmuk) as the falling buildings have blocked the roads.

Cordell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121331746#Comment_121331746

A great bunch of wonderful people.

m2_browning

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121331823#Comment_121331823

Let’s not forget who flattened Syria yep that’s the R in BRICS that made @brickster69 so excited earlier when Iran called for them to pile into the shitshow

Weepsie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121331803#Comment_121331803

Which speakers. Maybe there were. Certainly none in the Irish ones. Can't imagine many in the massive Washington one, or the Paris or London ones. Possibly some of those in countries nearer the conflict, and if they are they should not be given any more airtime or invited to talk and told exactly where to go, but go on and tell us who...

Cluedo Monopoly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121331726#Comment_121331726

😂 Another one?! Take a look in the mirror Blanch! Still playing the Bird Law part after last week's gaffes?? Credibility?

Lets go back to all the points that an actual Irish expert in International Crimimal Law expert (Law Library | Ruth A FitzGerald SC) outlined. Given that you would not address her points, I will start with just 1.

Ruth FitzGerald SC: International humanitarian law in the conflict between Israel and Hamas | Irish Legal News

Providing supplies to the civilian population vs collective punishment

Article 55 of the Fourth Convention requires the Occupying Power, to the fullest extent of the means available to it, “to ensure food and medical supplies to the population. It should, in particular, bring the necessary foodstuffs, medical stores and other articles if the resources of the occupied territory are inadequate”.

Common Article 33 provides that collective punishment is a war crime. Collective punishment is a penalty imposed on a group for acts allegedly carried out by members of the group and applies to international and non-international armed conflicts.

Contrary to its duty under Article 55, the act of Israel in cutting off water, electricity, food, and fuel to the population of Gaza punishes the entire population of Gaza for the acts of Hamas — is a collective punishment — as the objective of the siege is that of destroying Hamas.

--------------

So lets start with collective punishment...Do you agree with the legal expert on this one? Yes or No.

jmreire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121331803#Comment_121331803

Yes in Iraq / Syria, but its alive and well in other Country's. Its ironic really, but in Afghanistan, where its called " The Islamic State of Khorasan" aka ISIS-K, it has become a thorn in the side of the Taliban, who are now subjected to same type of attacks and tactics they used against the US and Afghan Government. Karma. But still sad for the unfortunate Afghans who as usual will bear the brunt of the fighting,

Tell me how

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121330915#Comment_121330915

No, you're not getting away thinking because Hamas did what they did that the Israeli state, the IDF and all those who support their actions is forever absolved from analysis or condemnation. That might work in Downing Street, or the White House, but just because it does I'm not going to cow down to the view that Israel can do what they want because of what was done to them. F right off with that idea.

Here is the post you had an issue with.

Yes, what happened on Oct 7th was savagery, but no more or less than what we have been seeing since.

So let me right it a different way.

Yes, what happened on Oct 7th was savagery, that doesn't mean that Israel has the right to tolerate as viscously on a far greater scale.

Or maybe this way.

Yes, what happened on Oct 7th was savagery, and it has continued and even grown since with the actions of the IDF at the direction of the Israeli government.

Happy now, there's no 'But' in my statements.

Israel is performing a genocide on the Palestinian people. They have told us that that is what they are doing. They have told us that supporting Hamas would ultimately bring about the scenario where they could do this. These are facts.

So no, I will not let you dismiss objective assessment of what Israel is doing as being unacceptable or part of a fantasy world. Look at the facts and know what they will say about this time for the next 100 years.

Weepsie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121331819#Comment_121331819

Called them wonderful people. Again, accusing me of not being able to read English.

Ordinary Iranians that are living under a despotic regime that they'd mostly rather not, a regime in the last year that millions have come out in protest against, risking their lives in the process.

There are decent Israeli citizens too, plenty of them. Any of those who have come in and settled land are not decent though. They know full well what they are doing. Any who has taken over the residence that belonged formerly to a Palestinian person or otherwise that was taken off them by force, is not a decent person.

Gatling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121331853#Comment_121331853

There's been several at the UK protests all calling for the Caliphate,

And there was an interesting one involving the London met when they asked what looked like several ex servicemen not to hang British flags on the Barriers when they challenged the police officers about the Palestinian flags the reply was they significant outnumber us ,

And there has been plenty of arrests for hate speech and racial violence, they can say what they want at theses Marches knowing in full knowledge the British police are too afraid to shut them down

jmreire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121331848#Comment_121331848

Yes, and they have their blood stained hands all over what's happening in Palestine too. As a matter of fact, in any present day trouble spots world wide, Putin's finger prints will be found. An they have been doing it for years, but definitely more since Putin came on the scene.

nacho libre

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121331810#Comment_121331810

Presumably you include Saudi Arabia in that? They have supported Al Qaeda or whatever they have repackaged themselves as in Syria. And speaking of Syria, the Saudis engaged in the same double tap methods in Yemen as Assad's army did in Syria. Where was the outrage from the left and right over this, both largely silent on this for their own reasons

Also a few years ago Saudi Arabia and Qatar fell out over supporting different terrorist groups. It was probably an oversight from jmreire not to mention Saudi Arabia in his original post.

Weepsie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121331890#Comment_121331890

Can you point them out though instead of a vague comment. One speaker rightly arrested for anti semetic remarks and 2 people for antisemitic posters.

30,000 peaceful protesters and maybe 2 dozen knobheads

ArthurDayne

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121331857#Comment_121331857

I've said it before and I'll say it again — the whole debate of what is a war crime and what is not often seems to obfuscate that, from a procedural aspect, it doesn't actually matter. This is because the two primary military powers at play in the conflict, Israel and the United States, will not accept the jurisdiction of the International Criminal Court.

There are posters on here who seem to be resolutely confident in the Israeli narrative that they act within the confines of international law — in circumstances where the Israelis themselves don't seem to be confident enough to actually have it scrutinised by the judicial authority of those laws.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121331581#Comment_121331581

That’s quite a stretch. EU countries have rules for citizens of countries within the EU, and different rules for those outside.

How does that suddenly extend to matters of mistreatment?

Danzy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121331781#Comment_121331781

Lets not pretend that the Iranian regime is not secure and enjoys the support of most of the persian population and quite strong support in most other groups bar the Kurds

circadian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121331931#Comment_121331931

This is the crux of it, Israel doesn't give a **** about international law. If the international community does overwhelmingly believe they are committing war crimes then the best course of action would be similar to how Russia was handled and that's through sanctions. Thast's very unlikely to happen.

m2_browning

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121331923#Comment_121331923

Oh yep them guys too, tho ain’t the S in BRICS for South Africa?

They also do next to nothing to help Palestinians next door despite being incredibly wealthy and sharing same genes and religion as guys hundred miles away

Saudis can resolve this tommorow by making Gazans citizens and getting land on med coast too and the Israelis might actually love that as it would solve a lot of problems in one go.

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121331758#Comment_121331758

Yeah?

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/feb/28/ethiopian-women-given-contraceptives-israel

’moo’

Cluedo Monopoly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121331931#Comment_121331931

I know it and I am fully aware Israel will never be prosecuted. They are "immune".

Tell me how

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121330527#Comment_121330527

This is the 3rd time I've linked to this post.

Post #13404

I wish you guys would counter it instead of dismissively claiming no one is talking about removing Hamas and so the idea of killing probably 10's of civilians for every terrorist (claimed to be killed) is the only ay forward.

That aside.

This has to be done, and Israel is doing the dirty horrible work for all of us.

This is a statement from the highest level of ignorance. Israel is pushing the world towards what could realistically become WW3 if they continue to pursue their ideals of obliterating Gaza and displacing everyone in it. Be under no illusion that there can be peaceful outcome if that continues to be pursued.

Western nations (and Israel) will likely deal with terrorist attacks for several years to come by people outrage and exasperated at how they have have supported Israels actions on this. And many of the same voices on here cheering Israel on will then bemoan the attacks and call for further demonization of people of a particular background which will only lead to more conflict and division.

We have seen a path out of this, and it is only through an acceptance that for there to be peace, there needs to be an end to violence. The faster the violence ends, the sooner there can be peace.

Israel must know that every shellshocked orphan they are creating right now is an enemy for Israel for the rest of that childs life. How could they not expect this? If they truly think that the only end to this is the end of Hamas, then the way they are going about it suggests they absolutely want to kill as many kids as they can so as to preemptively solve the problems from the 2030's and 2040's.

Hey boy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121331930#Comment_121331930

Easy to find all over the internet and main media outlets in the UK.

nacho libre

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121331965#Comment_121331965

They are too busy spending billions on a new city to help anyone! Also putting on extravaganza sporting events to whitewash their crimes. We even had Frank Warren- a UK boxing promoter- describing the Saudi Ruler as a lovely fellow altogether,save for the odd bit of murder against a naughty journalist.

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121331965#Comment_121331965

Saudis can resolve this tommorow by making Gazans citizens and getting land on med coast too and the Israelis might actually love that as it would solve a lot of problems in one go.

please expand on how collective punishment and ethnic cleansing resolves anything?

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121331810#Comment_121331810

Well no. The only one ranting is yourself. On a thread which has evolved to focus on the Israeli crimes and atrocities against innocent Palestinians, you started going on about Iranians. Another poster (not me) said that they knew some Iranians who were lovely people. You took exception to that and I merely asked you whether you actually knew any Iranians. Then you want to go on about the government of Iran. So I have to take that as a "no". You just have some per-conceived notion of what a person from Iran would be like.

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121331992#Comment_121331992

“Everyone I can’t rebut properly is cheering for Hamas”

m2_browning

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121332009#Comment_121332009

Becoming citizens of one of the richest countries that also shares same religion and is ethnically same as them is punishment?

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121332018#Comment_121332018

Collective punishment and ethnic cleansing yes. “Same religion and ethnically same as them” literally confirming the nature of the war crime.