Hamas strike on Israel - mod warning in OP updated 19/10/23

markodaly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121338352#Comment_121338352

You think the wars that the Arabs fought to destroy Israel, or the blatant anti-Semitism that both Europeans or Arabs displayed has nothing to do with Hamas and its vow to destroy Israel and cleanse the area of Jews.

Facts are an inconvenient truth.

markodaly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121338372#Comment_121338372

In 1933, Nazi's did think they were surrounded by enemies.

But you missed the point.

There are times in history when regimes have been destroyed by gunpowder. Hopefully we will have another example of this soon.

Odhinn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121339502#Comment_121339502

So the fate of the palestinian people is moot because of some mufti 80 years ago?

Brief_Lives

on a local level

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121339522#Comment_121339522

Facts like 4,000 dead children at the hands of the IDF?

That's really what these deflections to 'who started the war between Oceania and Eurasia' are really about, ignoring what's happening right now and what is being condoned right now.

The 2 parties agreed to the Oslo Accords, -- let me say that again, Oceania and Eurasia agreed to end war. We're well past who started it.

The man who didn't want that though orchestrated Rabin's assassination, propped up Hamas as his scapegoat and is bombing kids, and has been in political control nearly that whole time

markodaly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121338398#Comment_121338398

We all know the issue here for many. The mere fact that Jews exist in that area of the world is the original sin for the conflict.

hotmail.com

The Ditch is gone.

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121339533#Comment_121339533

"this post has been deleted" 😁

freebritney

1. Jews enjoyed relative peace in Palestine up until the early 1900's
2. The Zionist movement saw an increasing number of white, European colonists who happened to be Jewish arriving in Gaza, which resulted in an increase in antisemitism
3. After WW2 a very large number of white, European refugee colonists who happened to be Jewish arrived in Palestine which saw a further increase in antisemitism.
4. Those white European colonist who happen to be Jewish then persecuted, terrorised, killed and drove millions of Palestinians from there homes, which further resulted in a rise in antisemitism.
5. According to a great many posters here, the only reason the Palestinians are against the white European colonists in their land is because they are antisemitic.
6. If Xi simply converts the Chinese population to Judaism then he will have a complete free hand at Taiwan and can counter all accusations of aggression with antisemitism, he even has the right of return story from 1949 instead of 2000 years ago.

markodaly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121338430#Comment_121338430

The UN voted on a resolution to give 56/58% of the land to the Jews. The Arabs did not agree to it as Jews were less than 33% of the population and also the lands given to Palestinians were not as favourable ie for agriculture.

The Jews would have accounted for over 50% of the population.

Also a lot of the land given to Israel was desert.

The bulk of the proposed Jewish State's territory, however, consisted of the Negev Desert,[61] which was not suitable for agriculture, nor for urban development at that time.

Regardless, no plan would have satisfied the Arabs.

Arab leaders and governments rejected the plan of partition in the resolution and indicated that they would reject any other plan of partition.

And of course it went back to drving and killing all Jews from those lands.

A few weeks after UNSCOP released its report, Azzam Pasha, the General Secretary of the Arab League, told an Egyptian newspaper "Personally I hope the Jews do not force us into this war because it will be a war of elimination and it will be a dangerous massacre which history will record similarly to the Mongol massacre or the wars of the Crusades."[122] (This statement from October 1947 has often been incorrectly reported as having been made much later on 15 May 1948.)[123] Azzam told Alec Kirkbride "We will sweep them [the Jews] into the sea." Syrian president Shukri al-Quwatli told his people: "We shall eradicate Zionism."[124]

This type of rhetoric still exists today, but of course, we should forget about all this.

If only the Jews were nicer, they wouldn't have faced a war of annihilation in 1948.

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121339568#Comment_121339568

Pushback from Twitter's moderators maybe? Looks like they have rubbed somebody up the wrong way anyway.

markodaly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121338620#Comment_121338620

Well they wont attack Qatar, but all the Hamas leadership are going to have a target on their backs for the rest of their lives.

Tell me how

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121339527#Comment_121339527

That is a simply evil post given what is happening to Palestinians in Gaza.

Cluedo Monopoly

The economic impacts of the Gaza blockade have been huge

Blockade of the Gaza Strip - Wikipedia

The World Bank estimated in 2015 that the GDP losses caused by the blockade since 2007 was above 50%, and entailed large welfare losses. Gaza's manufacturing sector, once significant, shrunk by as much as 60 percent in real terms, due to the wars in the past 20 years and the blockade. Gaza's exports virtually disappeared since the imposition of the 2007 blockade. 

It is estimated that in November, less than 20,000 liters of fuel per week entered Gaza via the tunnels, compared to nearly 1 million liters per day until June 2013. The Gaza Power Plant (GPP), which had been supplying 30 percent of the electricity available in Gaza, has been exclusively dependent on Egyptian diesel smuggled through the tunnels, since early 2011. On 1 November, after depleting its fuel reserves, the GPP was forced to shut down, triggering power outages of up to 16 hours per day, up from 8–12 hours prior to that.

Following the implementation of the blockade, Israel halted all exports from the Gaza Strip. Israeli human rights organization Gisha, the Legal Center for Freedom of Movement, obtained an Israeli government document which says "A country has the right to decide that it chooses not to engage in economic relations or to give economic assistance to the other party to the conflict, or that it wishes to operate using 'economic warfare'".[147] Sari Bashi, the director of Gisha, said that this showed that Israel wasn't imposing its blockade for its stated reasons of a security measure to prevent weapons from entering Gaza, but rather as collective punishment for the Palestinian population of Gaza.

In May 2015, the World Bank reported that the Gaza economy was on the "verge of collapse". 40% of Gaza's population lived in poverty, even though around 80% received some sort of aid.

International law regards a blockade as an act of war.[214] The blockade has been criticized by former UN Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon, the United Nations Human Rights Council (UNHRC)[215] and other human rights organizations. In 2011, a panel of UN experts concluded that the naval blockade of Gaza constituted collective punishment and in doing so violated international law, contradicting a previous UN investigation that declared it was legal.

Before the Hamas attack, they had nearly 50% unemployment.

markodaly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121338628#Comment_121338628

Well, I guess once Jews knew their place, the Arabs were always going to be in the majority and supremacy. But once the migration of Jews occurred, resentment and Anti-Semitism exploded.

You also have to look in the wider context of nationalism, Islam and the fusing of the two. The Muslim Brotherhood for example are a reactionary far-right group. Like in the rest of the world, Nationalism exploded in the Middle East after WWI and the fall of empires, but it was very much a right-wing, Islamic-based nationalism in today's sense, certainly not a liberal, diverse-based nationalism.

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121339600#Comment_121339600

....so they're not going to destroy Hamas?

markodaly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121338680#Comment_121338680

True to a certain extent, but you know what I am talking about.

markodaly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121339531#Comment_121339531

No.

I am just destroying the argument that this conflict is rooted in the falsehood that it was because the Jews were mean to Palestinians.

It goes deeper than that, and the unfortunate truth is that much of it is based on hatred for Jews.

unkel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121339518#Comment_121339518

We are discussing ethnic cleaning in the current situation in Gaza, not elsewhere or at any time. It was IDF's obligation under international humanitarian law to advise people to move to the south of Gaza as they had intended to heavily attack the north. That's not ethnic cleansing!

markodaly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121339536#Comment_121339536

It was Arafart who rejected the Olso accords first and foremost, not Rabin.

Also, are you saying that it was Bibi who killed Rabin?

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121339632#Comment_121339632

Did you finish reading to the bottom of my post before responding, or are we just going to ignore what's happening now, let it ferment for the next 74 years as well, and come back to it then and say 'well... we're discussing the current situation now'

As if it's all some big game to disacknowledge how long Israel has been at this ethnic cleanse.

markodaly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121339607#Comment_121339607

My aim is at the regime that runs Gaza. Hamas.

They need to be eradicated.

markodaly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121339624#Comment_121339624

Did the Allies destroy National Socialism in 1945?

Yes or No.

Cluedo Monopoly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121339632#Comment_121339632

You're wrong I'm afraid. It's not ethnic cleansing but it is illegal.

Ruth FitzGerald SC: International humanitarian law in the conflict between Israel and Hamas | Irish Legal News

Requiring the population to move to enable the attainment of military objective

Article 49 of the Fourth Convention provides that individual, or mass, forcible transfer, as well as deportations of protected persons from occupied territory to the territory of the Occupying Power or to that of any other country, occupied or not, are prohibited, “regardless of their motive”.

Civilians are under no duty to remove themselves from an area of conflict, although if they wish to leave, they may do so unless their departure is contrary to the national interests of the state (Article 35 of the Fourth Convention). Further, Article 17 of Additional Protocol II provides that the displacement of civilians shall not be ordered unless “the security of the civilians involved or imperative military reasons so demand”. Where such displacements occur, all possible measures must be taken in order that the civilians are afforded satisfactory shelter, hygiene, safety and nutrition.

The setting of a deadline by the Israeli authorities for the population of Gaza City to move south, with the threat of intense operations in Gaza City, taken with the failure to secure the conditions for the receipt of the civilians south of Wadi Gaza may constitute a constructive forcible transfer.

Article 17 of Additional Protocol II provides that civilians shall not be compelled to leave their own territory for reasons connected with the conflict. Although Israel is not a party to the Protocol, the efforts of third parties to provide a humanitarian corridor into Sinai could be viewed as aiding and abetting Israel in the transfer of protected persons contrary to Article 49 of the Fourth Convention and Article 17 of Additional Protocol II as their intention is not relevant.

---------------------

Many moved south with no shelter, water, safety or nutrition. Israel also continued to bomb the south.

circadian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121339632#Comment_121339632

So if they no longer allow Palestinians to return to that area, which given what's happening in the West Bank isn't a stretch of the imagination, what do you call that?

Fuascailteoir

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121339542#Comment_121339542

The issue for many is that we are headed into another night where children in their hundreds are going to be mutilated. That to many is unconscionably inhuman

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121339643#Comment_121339643

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121339645#Comment_121339645

Shifting the goalposts. To eradicate Hamas you need to eradicate the leadership.

"Well they wont attack Qatar, but all the Hamas leadership are going to have a target on their backs for the rest of their lives."

Ergo, Hamas will not be "eradicated"

Israel said it would eradicate Hamas, but if it will not do so, this was a lie.

The Allies destroyed the Nazi Party, yes, the surviving members were put on trial in Nuremburg.

Hamas isn't a political ideology, it is a terror organization.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121339587#Comment_121339587

You are posting a plan which involved the movement of Arabs and would have gerrymandered to have an Israeli majority on what was left. It doesn't show what you appear to think it shows.

An analogy in the Irish context would have been a hypothetical Cromwell expelling almost all the Irish to Connacht, leaving 3,000 behind in the other 3 provinces and then moving in 7,000 planters and then saying "sure of course we should have 70% of the island. Our population is 70% of the areas we are in"

Fuascailteoir

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121339632#Comment_121339632

When you don't supply basic necessities while moving a population it is in direct contravention of IHL

Overheal

Efforts continue to smear Palestinian civilian sympathy as terrorism

https://www.mediaite.com/news/fox-news-reporter-claims-pro-palestine-student-protests-are-part-of-the-hamas-strategy/

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121339645#Comment_121339645

I think the more thoughtful question would be did they create it at Versailles?

Cluedo Monopoly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121339643#Comment_121339643

Do you know anything about the open air prison that is Gaza? Hypothetical but if Israel defeats Hamas 100% - all dead - is that the end of hostilities? Problem solved? No more terrorist groups? Great place to live again? Is it that simple for you? These might help.

Gaza Strip - Wikipedia

Blockade of the Gaza Strip - Wikipedia

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121339687#Comment_121339687

If Hamas is "eradicated", the State of Israel will just recreate it again in some other guise

keynes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121339673#Comment_121339673

Israelis are bombing refugee camps, hospitals, the Red Cross, Medicines San Frontieres, aid workers, everything that moves. They are now simply out of control.

Cluedo Monopoly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121339692#Comment_121339692

Yeah the purpose of the blockade was to stop the likes of Hamas arming and to make the citizens of Gaza utterly miserable it seems (50% unemployment, economy in ruins). Hamas did smuggle in weapons somehow. Will Israel impose an even harsher blockade after this iteration of the ongoing war? 100%. Gaza must be a horrific place to live in. It will be worse after this war. Radicalisation of the next 2 generations of Gazans is almost guaranteed now.

Cluedo Monopoly

RTE

Red Cross convoy hit by gunfire

The International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC) said a humanitarian convoy carrying lifesaving medical supplies came under fire in Gaza City.

The convoy of five trucks and two Red Cross vehicles was carrying supplies to health facilities, including to Al-Quds hospital, when it was hit, an ICRC statement said, adding that two trucks were damaged and a driver lightly wounded.

keynes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121339692#Comment_121339692

Problem is not Hamas. Its the political tyranny that gave rise to Hamas. That is destined to get even worse.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121339717#Comment_121339717

Absolutely. Who is going to be easier to radicalise into running across a border in a pair of tracksuit bottoms with an AK-47 on a suicide mission in a few years - the now 13 year old boy that has seen his family house demolished and all his family crushed to death, or a 13 year old boy whose biggest care in the world is what version of iphone makes the best TikTok videos on while he looks forward to getting to college to study as an engineer or doctor.

circadian

https://youtu.be/gk7iWgCk14U?si=RmXcJXPiz2H9lAhJ

American nurse just back from Gaza, sounds insane what was going on.

Weepsie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121339537#Comment_121339537

It's not victim blaming. Israel has long given up it's right to play that victim card. They have well overstepped the mark. This is srebenica levels of massacre occuring at their hands

When you spend decades covertly and overtly displacing people and creating refugees pits of millions, you don't get to be the victim any more

When you do it so you can let a privileged, middle class , lawyer, doctor, dentist etc from Brooklyn take the rightful home of a Palestinian you don't get to play the victim.

They don't get to play the anti semitism card every single **** time they don't like being called out

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121339729#Comment_121339729

Likud's original charter defined it's identity as a party on being opposed to the PLO. Having a boogeyman to fight is essential for the party's survival.

https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/original-party-platform-of-the-likud-party

"The PLO is no national liberation organization but an organization of assassins, which the Arab countries use as a political and military tool, while also serving the interests of Soviet imperialism, to stir up the area. Its aim is to liquidate the State of Israel, set up an Arab country instead and make the Land of Israel part of the Arab world. The Likud government will strive to eliminate these murderous organizations in order to prevent them from carrying out their bloody deeds"

blackcard

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121339587#Comment_121339587

Of course, the Arabs were against partition. They were a majority in Palestine. Why would they want it split up?

Naturally, they didn't want to have 400,000 Arabs to be part of Israel with a 600, 000 jewish majority controlling them and the Arabs being second class citizens. It was a rotten deal for them brought about by massive pressure being put on the US and financial incentives and bribes to other countries. It was sheer stupidity by the UN. Maybe if they had proposed a more balanced solution, there might have been some hope of peace

unkel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121339658#Comment_121339658

Ethnic cleansing. A war crime.

SafeSurfer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121339623#Comment_121339623

Where was the liberal, diverse based nationalism post WW1? I would have thought the dominant nationalism was very much illiberal and monocultural in the interwar period.

quokula

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121339931#Comment_121339931

What is it with new accounts popping up with abhorrently Islamophobic and violently pro-Israel viewpoints, even to the extent of trying to lay the groundwork to justify dropping a nuke in this case...

sock.rocker*

A Red Cross convoy bombed. I'm sure the usuals in here will believe any shlte they hear from the IDF saying they were transporting Hamas fighters. Doctors without Borders killed as well.

Israel could bomb their mothers and they'd believe there were Hamas commanders inside them.

Overheal

"There is no military solution to this"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FhbKaxHT4-w

"If you want to know what [peace] is going to look like, you need to turn to Ireland"

nacho libre

I see Donald Trump mentioned rhetoric in a post, then Danzy, before he jumped the gun, mentioned Hamas loving death, well, clearly the Hamas leadership outside of Gaza love life- amassing millions and living in plush surroundings .

Although the good times might be over since Nihil- an assassination unit made up of Mossad And Shin Bet members- are tasked with hunting down and killing anyone involved in the planning or funding of the October 7th attacks in Gaza and outside of it. The question is will the Americans try to thwart them if they go after Hamas in Qatar?

Overheal

Israel intercepted a missile last week at a point above the earths atmosphere, marking a bit of a milestone in space warfare

https://gizmodo.com/israel-houthi-missile-first-battle-in-space-1850999081

Overheal

New York Pest columnist islamaphobically paints news hosts Ali Velahi and Mehdi Hasan as Hamas-run (from MSNBC)

https://www.mediaite.com/tv/ny-post-columnist-accuses-msnbcs-ali-velshi-and-mehdi-hasan-of-being-hamas-run/

Previously he attacked a Pakistani American journalist for the same schtick.