Hamas strike on Israel - mod warning in OP updated 19/10/23

Tell me how

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121360542#Comment_121360542

How is it clear?

Why can't it mean Palestine exists alongside a Israel?

Take 3 asking about qty of marches you've attended.

Take 2 asking you if Jewish people at these marches are guilty of the hatefil persuasions you said everyone at the marches are guilty of. Whenever you're ready. Thanks.

Tell me how

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121360540#Comment_121360540

They show solidarity.

They tell a government what the will of the people is.

How would you try to do these things if you were ever motivated to act on behalf of others?

Danzy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121360498#Comment_121360498

That was rough on the people in that car, Hezbollah are happy to die themselves and have others die as well, hopefully they will not keep escalating to war but we all know that they will.

After the last Hezbollah attack met with an Israeli response, a Lebanese minister described it as nearly sending the country back to the stone age and how they were still recovering.

That would be nothing compared to the formal state of war Israel has now been forced Into.

Maybe Lebanon will save itself and send it's army In to destroy Hezbollah, even if that means a civil war again, Hez are part of the govt, if they escalate to war. It is lebanon that is choosing a war in an attempt to wipe out Israel, it must expect no restraint shown

amandstu

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121360570#Comment_121360570

It is obvious what it means.Are you pretending not to understand?

The phrase has a long history.

I think Nasser boasted he would push Israel into the sea

You can't say it or chant it without the threat being obvious.

Israel is so small that it is not unachievable and the prospect becomes more feasible as European public opinion and American publican opinion is swayed against Israel.

crushproof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121360579#Comment_121360579

I wouldn't bother replying to this person, absolutely no base of reality and automatically assumes the hundreds of thousands of us that marched around the world for peace this weekend are all terrorist sympathisers.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121360579#Comment_121360579

"They tell a government what the will of the people is."

That only happens at elections. Governments are well within their rights to ignore street protests as a barometer of public opinion.

Cordell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121360570#Comment_121360570

Are you asking me if I went to any pro Palestine marches? Why in the fk would I go to such a thing, mingle with antisemites and terrorist and Hamas supporters? I don't know about the jewish persons there, what's going on in their heads, if anything. As for the meaning of the chant, it means what it means, not what you think it means. You say it means coexistence of Israel and Palestine? I haven't seen any Israeli flag.

Cease fire now - where is release the hostages now?

These marches are not for peace, they are against Israel. At least be honest.

end of the road

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121360195#Comment_121360195

so they have got no proof then.

the priority for the IDF on the ground is to slaughter and all else as much as they can.

KilOit

It is very frustrating to see the Western countries play into Hamas/Iran hands, these marches are exactly what Hamas wants. Sheep walking up and down the streets of western EU countries waving their flag.

I see the horror this war brings, see all the gruesome footage on telegram but people really need to realize that Hamas will sacrifice their children to bring an end to Israel, Hamas is all about showing dead civilians to Western media, they are not interested in protecting their people.

RobbieV

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121360581#Comment_121360581

The Lebanese economy is in ruins. A war is the last thing they can handle. Thankfully.

It was reported that Houthi rebels have been firing rockets into Israel today from Saudi.

I hope people realise these rockets are not aimed at military targets but at civilians.

Again if Israel show any weakness things could get really serious

Tell me how

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121360590#Comment_121360590

Its obvious to Zionists looking to justify their acts.

Hopefully public opinion absolutely is swayed against Israel given its actions and statements as to its intent.

You can relax though, it's a long way from happening that the US in particular will hold Israel to account fir its crimes.

Fuascailteoir

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121360581#Comment_121360581

Rough on the people in the car ... There were three children brutally murdered by the israelis

end of the road

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121360206#Comment_121360206

and they will get their arses handed to them like they did when they invaded lebanon in 2006.

amandstu

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121360622#Comment_121360622

It is obvious to everyone.

If they say it,believe them.

Would you join a march where this chant was made?

RobbieV

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121360612#Comment_121360612

There is a world of proof. From reports to video going back years.

If you won't look at what people are pointing out to you it is disingenuous to shout "no proof"

This is a great video showing many video reports through the years along with up to date evidence from years of various methods of surveillance

https://youtu.be/JoN9HwlLUTk?si=nZB6CJNFQznIwsG9

Tell me how

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121360607#Comment_121360607

Are you asking me if I went to any pro Palestine marches? Why in the fk would I go to such a thing

Because, then you might know what you're talking about instead of parroting right wing narratives.

Nethanyahu went to the UN with a map of the region with no Palestine on it, were you equally aggrieved with what he was implying?

When you talk about releasing hostages, are you talking about the 200 odd Israelis held in Gaza?

Or the 1500 Palestinians held without charge in Israeli jails?

Or the 2M Palestinians corralled in to Gaza and only able to exist at the whim of the Israeli government and military?

Which is it?

end of the road

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121360305#Comment_121360305

this is just hasbara propaganda, nobody outside hard line israel supporters are buying it.

sure, there are a couple of extreme idiots on the march but the marches are ultimately against genocide.

both successive israely governments and hamas believe in from the river to the sea, so hard line israel supporters have no case to be complaining about the chant being used.

Tell me how

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121360650#Comment_121360650

The vast majority of people who are attending marches are not saying it though. So why aren't you focused on what they are saying?

I mean surely what is obvious is what is happening rather than what could be happening

end of the road

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121360474#Comment_121360474

this is more hasbara propaganda.

they won't be invaded if they secure their borders, not that they were ever actualy invaded anyway but rather did the invading a plenty.

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121360614#Comment_121360614

How do you explain Israel so badly losing the PR battle? It's evident that large swathes of public opinion in the West regards them as barefaced liars and very possibly the real aggressor at this point of the conflict - this cannot be explained for a moment by supposed 'anti-Semitism'.

Cordell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121360655#Comment_121360655

I'm of course talking about actual civilian hostages, not combatants held as prisoners. But let's get back to the claim that these marches are for these two countries to coexist in peace. Where are the Israeli flags? I mean apart from those burned or stomped on.

Look, a map.

amandstu

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121360664#Comment_121360664

It may be that the chant is not being sung all the time.

But when it is sung ,do we see groups of people disassociating themselves from it?

It is well publicized in the news and it was mooted that pro palestinian marches should be banned for that sort of a reason.

People in the marches must know of the chant and either approve of its sentiment or prefer to "hear no evil" and accept specious justifications for its use.

I remember when Nasser was accused of using the phrase and it appears even then it was denied.

.https://www.algemeiner.com/2014/02/20/did-arab-states-really-promise-to-push-jews-into-the-sea-yes/

KilOit

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121360673#Comment_121360673

People don't read into anything, they read a headline and a picture. "Israel Bomb school with picture of dead baby" it'll be ignored that Hamas used the grounds to launch rockets or gather munitions.

The so called "PRESS" you see running around like paparazzi in Gaza chasing the dead civilian pictures work alongside Hamas, they are only allowed release pictures that Hamas approves.

dalyboy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121360060#Comment_121360060

Only another 5,980,000 murders to commit to equal the holocaust number. At this rate they’ll achieve this number within 3 years while “defending” themselves

RobbieV

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121360671#Comment_121360671

That is factually untrue .

The fact you are repeatedly calling every post you don't like " hasbara propaganda" is just silly.

It shows a real immaturity and an inability for discourse

Danzy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121360631#Comment_121360631

2006 wasn't a full war, they sent a small force in response to the Hez attack, probably should have been.

They won't make that mistake again.

Given the size of Hezbollah, the 100k rockets they have, the proven fighting ability,their probable lack of intel, Israel won't have the luxury of targeted strikes, Door knocks, and long warnings to communities to flee.

It will be Gaza but aggressive and speed will be of urgency, destroy all Hezbollah targets, Lebanese army, state assets, govt, bridges, dams,

If Lebanon choose war, they can't expect to be a barely functional society for many years to come, yet that looks like the route they are going down, they always choose war.

The price inflicted should be so severe that no Lebanese govt will allow it again for a century.

unkel

@Weepsie - "Saudi ARabai is 155th on the Freedom index, israel 67th I think. Ireland is 6th."

And where is Hamas, I guess 666th?

Tell me how

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121360683#Comment_121360683

No, you don't get to do that.

A - Palestinians held without charge ARE civilian hostages.

B - Are you seriously comparing a civilian at a march versus the PM of a country at the UN? Seriously?

Tell me how

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121360686#Comment_121360686

It is well publicized in the news and it was mooted that pro palestinian marches should be banned for that sort of a reason.

It was publicized in right wing media and mooted by the most right wing Home secretary the UK has ever had in an effort to silence the public. Something she did while dogwhistling far right hooligans who caused the trouble at the Cenotaph she pretended she wanted to prevent.

Tell me how

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121360695#Comment_121360695

Wow, what a post.

You think the Jews are entitled to 'an eye for an eye' type retribution?

Tell me, are they just permitted to pick off anyone to make up the numbers or what did the Palestinians do to deserve to be part of this score settling you're referring to? (Don't say Oct 7th, Israel has been killing Palestinians way before that)

amandstu

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121360735#Comment_121360735

And as such the issue was well known to the general public.

Do you refuse to say whether or not you would join a march where this chant was being made?

Cordell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121360720#Comment_121360720

A - no, they aren't.

B - I'm not comparing anything and I'm not going to entertain this whataboutery.

end of the road

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121360581#Comment_121360581

the only ones responsible for killing that family are the israely military.

israel is not in a state of war formal or otherwise, they are simply claiming it to justify border expansion.

it is israel who are chosing war with lebanon because they have been trying to take territory from it for decades, lebanon is simply defending itself from israely border expansion and as the military are not able to put up a strong defense a molissia are being used to carry out gurrilla tactics.

israel may have bombed lebanon back to the stone age but that is all they were able to do, their ground forces suffered very heavy losses and they were sent back over the border.

Tell me how

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121360771#Comment_121360771

Civilians captured by one side are hostages.

Civilians captured by other side are not hostages.

And an unnamed, unidentified marchers amongst thousands is somehow equivalent to a countries PM speaking officially.

Do you see how ridiculous these arguments are when laid out in black and white? These are the hoops you're jumping through to justify Palestinians being killed.

No wonder you're refusing to explain your logic, no one could do so objectively.

end of the road

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121360651#Comment_121360651

reports from years ago does not constitute proof of what is happening now, just that something happened years ago.

ergo, israel have no proof for their claims of what is happening now.

Tell me how

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121360765#Comment_121360765

You're asking me how I would act in a hypothetical situation which hasn't occurred. You should realize that if that is where you need to go to in order to try to negate my argument, you've already lost.

P.S. the issue the provocative home secretary alluded to didn't occur. It was fear mongering and all she did was rile up racists who showed themselves for what they are.

RobbieV

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121360796#Comment_121360796

From years ago right up to now.

Even hamas released their own videos showing these tunnels.

The proof is being laid out in front of you but instead the pointless contraian is the route you have chosen.

Goodnight

Cordell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121360790#Comment_121360790

Let's figure out the marches first, once you admit that they are in fact pro Hamas anti-Israel marches we can discuss the other points.

end of the road

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121360702#Comment_121360702

it was a full war, started by israel who engaged in incursions across the border into lebanon.

they heavily bombed the country but their ground forces suffered such heavy losses that they had to withdraw as public opinion in israel was turning against it's government.

israel's ground forces won't win any war with lebanon because gurrilla tactics by hesbolla will inflict very heavy losses, hence israel will only have air strikes at their disposal and given they have lost the war for public opinion in relation to the genocide of palestine, they will lose the same with their attempt to genocide lebanon.

lebanon simply defend themselves against israely aggression, if israel stayed within it's borders as set out in 1948 they would have no issues.

Tell me how

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121360807#Comment_121360807

Lol. Try again.

You think millions of people worldwide simultaneously decided to display their allegiance to Hamas?

Not even Israeli PR outlets are claiming this, that's how wide of the mark you are.

I'll take your desire to not respond to the other points as the lack of a valid response you've shown it to be.

Wolf359f

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121360805#Comment_121360805

So far, 2 weeks into the ground invasion, the IDF have released zero footage of tunnels under buildings like schools, mosques, health facilities (the buildings they be bombing) etc...

Nobody is saying there's no tunnels in Gaza, but the IDF bombing buildings and refugee camps, killing civilians and their justification is that there's tunnels and bunkers under them, yet zero evidence of said tunnels.

Danzy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121360779#Comment_121360779

Lebanon has 8bn in its reserves. A currency devalued by 90%, it doesn't even have a Permanent central bank head. It is a barely functioning State as is. If it goes to war against Israel, it won't even be that for 30 years to come.

The northern border was fairly peaceful since 2006 and the last significant Hezbollah attack.

That's purely on Hezbollah.

It might be necessary for Israel after a war, to draw a short straight line from Golan to Tyre and take it as a security buffer,

SafeSurfer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121360699#Comment_121360699

Did you specifically join Boards today to inform people what is Israeli propaganda and what isn’t?

Danzy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121360813#Comment_121360813

They will destroy it from the air, level every bridge, every military installation. Every police station , every power station, every state owned asset or govt building, every port. Every fishing harbour, Every barracks, every lorry that tries to enter or leave the country all communications, roads airports, everyone in a state uniform from the lollypop lady up, think what's happening in Gaza but gloves off and with a matter of urgency.

They may or may not send in soldiers after a few months of that, there might not be much left.

They did get a bloody nose in 2006, no doubt.

Difference now is that Israel is in a state of war, if they meet stiff resistance, they keep escalating the response till it is destroyed and given the severity of the threat there really isn't a line there, treat Beirut like 1944 Berlin? They won't be under prepared reservists in too few numbers and supplies, the opposite

The damage to Israel would be immense too, the barrage of rockets will overwhelm their defenses.

The calls to end Beirut will be very loud when Tel Aviv has been well ripped.

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121360692#Comment_121360692

RTE's The Week In Politics said the reason Tony Connelly is in Tel Aviv and not Gaza is that the regime won't allow him or any international journalists into the area. Are they afraid that their multiple lies and falsehoods about what is actually happening there will be exposed? If hospitals in Gaza are full of Hamas fighters and weapons, surely the regime would want hundreds of international reporters there to verify this.

https://www.npr.org/2023/11/11/1212467226/why-its-so-hard-for-journalists-to-report-from-gaza

unkel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121360866#Comment_121360866

Interesting. I guess Hezbollah has its finger much closer to the pulse than Hamas. Hezbollah knows full well that they would be exterminated if they got involved.

Now all we in this thread can do is wait. Wait for Hamas to be gone. Hopefully it will be done with the least number of civilian (mostly children) deaths possible. But it has to be done at any cost now. Hamas leadership gave humanity no other option. They will continue to kill Jews forever more if it was up to them.

Wolf359f

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121360882#Comment_121360882

Hezbollah know if they drag Israel into a full scale war the US carrier group off their coast won't be just sightseeing.

When the US Secretary of State says: “Far too many Palestinians have been killed. Far too many have suffered these past weeks,”

I think we're past the least number of civilian deaths possible.

amandstu

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121360804#Comment_121360804

"u're asking me how I would act in a hypothetical situation which hasn't occurred"

Yes I am,for the third time.

quokula

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121360882#Comment_121360882

We're already far past the "least number of civilian deaths possible", especially when it comes to children who are being massacred by the Israelis at a rate never seen anywhere in the world in a great many years. And there is absolutely zero chance that these continual atrocities and crimes against humanity that the Israelis are committing will see an end Hamas, it will only turn far more of those who survive to extremism as they will come to the conclusion that the only way to fight the extreme terrorism of the Israelis is with retaliatory terrorism of their own, as it looks more and more to them that Israel will continue to kill Arabs forever more if nothing is done to fight back.

unkel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121360932#Comment_121360932

I disagree. I feel the extermination of the evil Hamas might, just might, be the start of a meaningful peace. I just hope Gazans generally agree to this now. They didn't do themselves any favour voting in terrrorists as their rulers. What is it that is said about peoples? They get the rulers they deserve?