Hamas strike on Israel - mod warning in OP updated 19/10/23

sock.rocker*

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121359400#Comment_121359400

Is it like the pre-WWII camps then? Find something to compare it to.

quokula

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121360939#Comment_121360939

Fair enough, let's just agree to disagree if you don't think too many children have been murdered and if you choose to cling onto an extremely simplistic view that mass murdering people and terrorising them is somehow going to stop terrorism rather than cause it (and lets not forget that Israel created and fostered Hamas both indirectly by brutalising and terrorising the Palestinians and pushing them to extremism, and directly by funding Hamas and helping them to power in order to weaken the PLO)

Wolf359f

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121360939#Comment_121360939

I think the innocent men, women and children in Gaza under 35 years old who were too young to vote for Hamas may say differently.

Then again you could say the same about Israelis, they potentially elected a war criminal to power. But you wouldn't tar all Israeli's with the same brush like you do with Gazans?

unkel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121360954#Comment_121360954

Actually I fully agree with you. It's terrible from both ways.

sock.rocker*

If Israel is going to continue to bomb hospitals and its supporters agree with it, then there needs to be a ceasefire and all patients moved to Israeli hospitals or international hospital ships.

amandstu

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121360951#Comment_121360951

I rationalize this as Israel as a whole feeling that it's very existence is at risk.

So they have ,in their eyes to defend themselves in the most expedient way.

Sure ,some among them may enjoy the feeling of revenge or just punishment (with collateral damage that may ethically be attributed to their enemies ) but even if they were merely dispassionate about the need to protect their country and people (which cannot really be dispassionate at any level).. even then they might still choose the same path of "I hate to do this but there is no choice.It is for the best"

Why are they in this place where they may think their very existence is in peril?

Blame on both and all sides but here ,I believe is where they are.

It is hard to expect the highest moral behaviour from those who feel their backs are to the wall(especially if they have not exhibited moral behaviour in the time preceeding this terrible event)

nacho libre

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121360581#Comment_121360581

Hezbollah does not want a full scale war with Israel. It's obvious from Nasrallah's speeches. He has avoided declaring an all out war on two occasions. It's almost as if there is a tacit understanding that a certain level of attacks wil be tolerated to avoid a full scale war. You might not like to admit it but Israel are keen to avoid a full scale war too. As it would involve much higher casualties for them than the current war against Hamas.

However no one is wiping Israel out. Why do you keep persisting with this canard? Israel has one of the most powerful armies in the world, who just happened to be backed up by the strongest army in the world. This is likely why there has been no wider conventional war to date and there won't be in future.

sock.rocker*

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121360964#Comment_121360964

Do you rationalise in this manner for Palestinians too or just Israelis?

sock.rocker*

I rationalize this as Palestine as a whole feeling that it's very existence is at risk.

So they have ,in their eyes to defend themselves in the most expedient way.

Sure ,some among them may enjoy the feeling of revenge or just punishment (with collateral damage that may ethically be attributed to their enemies ) but even if they were merely dispassionate about the need to protect their country and people (which cannot really be dispassionate at any level).. even then they might still choose the same path of "I hate to do this but there is no choice.It is for the best"

Why are they in this place where they may think their very existence is in peril?

Blame on both and all sides but here ,I believe is where they are.

It is hard to expect the highest moral behaviour from those who feel their backs are to the wall(especially if they have not exhibited moral behaviour in the time preceeding this terrible event)

sock.rocker*

As I said a few pages back, it's just the classic "The only Moral Abortion is My Abortion" repurposed for war.

Truly, you must believe me. I hate war crimes and murdering children, but this one time for the first time in history, it's actually right. Believe me. I am completely against war crimes and do not think anyone should commit them, after this one specific event where they are totally required. She's only 17. She's too young to have a baby and the father is dead beat. She'll make a great mother when she's older and we'll support her then. But I am still totally against abortion.

amandstu

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121360966#Comment_121360966

No,I haven't got around to that. Is there a reason one shouldn't?

Or are you just trying to put a label on me?

amandstu

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121360970#Comment_121360970

That is copyright old chum.You are so smart though.

dalyboy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121360750#Comment_121360750

I’m saying the opposite actually. I’m firmly against Israel’s tactics of so called defending themselves when innocent lives are being taken indiscriminately. Additionally/equally I’m firmly against hamas killing Israelis.

Weepsie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121360714#Comment_121360714

Took you a while. They're nowhere because Palestine is not officially recognised as a state what with it being a prison

Sir_Name

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121360683#Comment_121360683

Whats your definition of a combatant -does it include civilians, teenagers throwing stones?

Israel holds over 1,200 detainees without charge. That's the most in 3 decades, a rights group says | AP News

Israel is holding over 1,200 detainees — nearly all of them Palestinians — without charge or trial, the highest number in over three decades, an Israeli human rights group said Tuesday.

The detainees, 99% of whom are Palestinians, are held under Israel’s policy of “administrative detention,” without trial and under allegations that Israeli authorities keep secret.

The detentions can range from a few months to years — and authorities often extend them for unknown reasons, according to Jessica Montell, the executive director of Hamoked, the rights group that published the figures.

Sir_Name

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121360714#Comment_121360714

Hamas are not a country last time I checked. Ridiculous...

Grayson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121360939#Comment_121360939

It's extremely unlikely. Israel have now killed thousands of children.

I'm a pacifist but if I was a Palestinian who had their family killed by an israeli bomb I can't say that my ideals would hold.

Ask yourself this, if after the worst IRA attacks, had the british bombed IRA strongholds in Derry, killing hundreds, would the people of Derry thought "That's ok. We'll have peace now". And would the people of Derry, who voted for SF have deserved it?

And just a reminder, the majority of those alive in gaza never voted for Hamas. The last election was in 2006. That was 17 years ago. About half the population of Gaza is under 18.

The blinkers some people wear amaze me. They think that this is some type of simple game. Hamas = bad and therefore Israel = Good. And if israel just kill enough of Hamas they'll win.

brickster69

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121360060#Comment_121360060

No surprise unforunately. If you presume the injured is double also and adjust it to Ireland's population, it is like Ireland having 5 Twin towers a week for 5 weeks.

circadian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121359497#Comment_121359497

I'll happy provide feedback and I'll probably find what you're saying to be accurate as it is also the case with the Bible where you have fundamentalist Christians completely missing the point of Christs message and embarking on a path of hate and vitriol. We see the same in Judaism with some hardliners in Israel coming out with equally insane rhetoric.

I am an atheist but I do find theism interesing in the sense that it can shape cultures but I certainly wouldn't be painting an entire populace based on it like some on this thread seem to be determined to do. Like you say, there's great people and not so great people everywhere. I honestly just believe most people just want to have a safe home, food and happy family.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121360961#Comment_121360961

That would only spread the conflict

When Israel ran out of easy targets in Gaza it would have to start striking the hospitals in those other countries instead in order to satisfy their bloodlust against Palestinians.

circadian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121360939#Comment_121360939

When in history has this ever worked?

Cluedo Monopoly

Largest Gaza hospital 'not functioning', says WHO (rte.ie)

The largest hospital in Gaza has ceased to function and fatalities among patients are rising, the head of the World Health Organization (WHO) has said.

Hospitals in the north of the Palestinian enclave, including the al-Shifa complex, are blockaded by Israeli forces and barely able to care for those inside, with three newborns dead and more at risk from power outages amid intense fighting nearby, according to medical staff.

Get this....

Israel's military said it had offered to evacuate newborn babies and had placed 300 litres of fuel at al-Shifa's entrance on Saturday night, but both gestures had been blocked by Hamas.

Hamas denied that it refused the fuel and said the hospital was under the authority of Gaza's Health Ministry, adding that the amount of fuel Israel said it offered was "not enough to operate the (hospital's) generators for more than half an hour".

Ashraf Al-Qidra, spokesperson for the Health Ministry, said that of 45 babies in incubators at al-Shifa, three had already died.

A plastic surgeon in al-Shifa said bombing of the building housing incubators had forced staff to line up premature babies on ordinary beds, using the little power available to run the air conditioning to warm.

"We are expecting to lose more of them day by day," said DrAhmed El Mokhallalati.

The Palestinian Red Crescent said the strip's second largest hospital, Al-Quds, was also out of service, with staff struggling to care for those already there with little medicine, food and water.

"Al Quds hospital has been cut off from the world in thelast six to seven days. No way in, no way out," said Tommaso Della Longa, spokesperson for the International Federation of Red Cross and Red Crescent Societies.

------------------------------

Israel offered enough fuel for 30 minutes. Can you believe that. Enough to fuel another Netanyahu lie. 2 largest hospitals not functioning now as per plan.

Rezident

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121360951#Comment_121360951

Not going to stop terrorism but the aim is to stop Hamas first and find the hostages.

Obviously the current war will drive more Palestinians towards extremism, but Hamas was not short of support in Gaza to begin with and they have a history of attacking Israel and suicide bombers etc. so I don't see any good options for Israel, considering its neighbours.

Radical Islam does not appear to be able to live in peace with Jews. Or Hindus or Christians or atheists or even with different types of Muslims. There will be no lasting peace in the middle east, Israel just has to do what it must to defend itself and survive.

One side started this war and could end it by releasing the hostages.

Only one side is using women and children (and babies) as human shields.

sock.rocker*

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121361580#Comment_121361580

It only works if you sack their cities and ethnic cleanse them to such an extent that they cannot group again as their own distinct and identifiable entity.

sock.rocker*

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121361612#Comment_121361612

Yes, those brave Israelis defending themselves and their borders from radical Islam.

Can you imagine if the UK were still displacing Irish people in the Republic and settling hundreds of thousands of people around the country.

Igotadose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121360750#Comment_121360750

I don't think that poster was attempting to justify Israel's behavior, and there's more than a hint o Holocaust denial in its response (that obsession with 6 million is kind of a giveaway.)

Scurrilous post, I'd add the poster to the ignore list.

Igotadose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121361689#Comment_121361689

That map's really innacurate. Really. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=btVFgqkgkzw

brickster69

UK media issued D - notices to not mention special forces operating in the middle east.

https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2023/10/30/phuq-o30.html

Danzy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121360866#Comment_121360866

He doesn't want it because he fears the cost but things can have a moment of their own. There is an understanding about the tit for tat exchange but things can get carried away on the ground.

It's not out of any love for Palestinians. It isn't that long ago really when his own forces were treating them like shi7 and butchering them.

sock.rocker*

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121361710#Comment_121361710

Provide more accurate maps, or explain it quickly. You can't just link to a 35-minute video and consider Israel's expansion a done topic. The point I was making is that taking land is not defensive.

Akrasia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121361612#Comment_121361612

If Israel's true aim is to defeat Hamas, why haven't they requested the Qatar to arrest the leader of Hamas, Ismail Haniyeh?

sock.rocker*

Like this is who you want me to watch for 35 minutes, to try and explain that Israel isn't taking Palestinian land?

https://twitter.com/Nikos_17/status/1714954022166188444

At least now I know where you guys are getting all your extreme arguments.

Tell me how

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121360975#Comment_121360975

Leaving outside the use of the abortion analogy, I don't think it is particularly necessary, I don't know how the advocates of Israels response can't consider the following.

Hundred's of thousands of Palestinian kids are seeing their homes/neighborhoods/family/friends being blown to bits by the Israeli army. They are seeing extremely decisive rhetoric from Israeli officials and less extreme but none the less decisive rhetoric from other leaders worldwide. They are seeing their people being forced to abandon the tiny patch of land they have clung to for decades in an effort to have a home. And they are dying, in their thousands.

Do Israel supporters at this point not think that these children will grow up with a fervent hatred of the Israeli state because of what it is doing to them? This is the most acrimonious the conflict has been between Israel and Palestine probably since the war of 1948. Hamas exists partly because of the impact seeing hundreds of his community killed by Israel had on one of its co-founders.

The scale of the disproportionality of the Israeli response, coupled with the statements from their officials, is surely doing more in forming future resistance to Israel than it is bringing peace to the region.

The only way that it can conceivably bring peace is if it results in the obliteration of so many Palestinians in Gaza and the removal of those who remain so that Gaza no longer exists as a Palestinian entity. Then the warmongers will say, look, there is no longer hatred, ignoring the genocide they have supported.

Cluedo Monopoly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121361792#Comment_121361792

Great post.

Rezident

Hamas’s use of hospitals and other civilian facilities for command and control and weapons storage is a “violation of the laws of war”.

How can anyone be on the same side as Hamas? How?

sock.rocker*

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121361851#Comment_121361851

They aren't. What a pointless question.

Tell me how

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121361851#Comment_121361851

Virtually no one is.

How can you not see that?

circadian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121361851#Comment_121361851

I don't know how many times it has to be repeated, there's no one here on the side of Hamas.

applehunter

Can you imagine if the UK were still displacing Irish people in the Republic and settling hundreds of thousands of people around the country.

We don't need the UK, our own government have been doing it to us for the last 20 years.

Sir_Name

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121361861#Comment_121361861

beginning to think I need it as my signature...

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121361851#Comment_121361851

That sort of propaganda only works on gullible eejits.

1) Footage emerges of an Israeli sniper shooting a lone Palestinian woman - walking down an otherwise empty street - in the head.

2) The IDF release a statement that there was a top Hamas command and control centre in the half-empty shopping bag she was carrying.

3) Standard boards.ie gullible wannabe-zionist response to assertions that Israel were bold boys for killing her - "But how can anyone be on the same side as a group of terrorists who hide their control centres in women's shopping bags and use them as human shields? How?"

brickster69

A good explainer for some to try and understand.

https://twitter.com/tparsi/status/1723779859095167120

Nermal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121360430#Comment_121360430

Here's the evidence:

https://twitter.com/metpoliceuk/status/1723462648577081629#m

Scroll down through the list of just the people the Met are actively looking for.

Bear in mind that the Met are, frankly, frightened of Islamists, and needed to be actively forced by political pressure into doing anything about them.

These marches, all over the world, are riddled from top to bottom with anti-semitism and Islamist sentiment.

Jewish people are not safe anywhere marches like this occur.

Danzy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121361508#Comment_121361508

Another stat relevant to the Irish state, given about 40% of Gazans are under 18, it leaves about 1.2 million adults, about 600k men roughly, out of that 600k, 3000 went on a raid in to Israel that would make pol pot blush, with the rape, and savagery involved and they was complete joy doing things as savage as it gets.

For the Irish State. That would be about 15k going on a suicide butchering mission.

Hamas enjoy very, very significant support.

Tell me how

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121362086#Comment_121362086

 went on a raid in to Israel that would make pol pot blush,

You're embarrassing yourself now.

Posts like this do nothing to refute the claim that Israeli's think they have a monopoly on suffering and persecution.

jmayo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121361739#Comment_121361739

Ehh you do know there were three wars, two of which were instigated by Israel's neighbours and the third was a preemtive attack by Israel because Egypt had told the UN force to leave, had closed the Straits of Tiran blocking Israeli shipping which they had said would be seen as an act of war.

And the map you show of the 1947 borders would have made it impossible for Israel to protect itself from attack from it's neighbours and to continue to exist.

Although maybe that is what a lot of people want, you know the old from the Jordan to the Sea brigade.

Something people putting up these maps always fail to mention is how West Bank was under Jordanian control and Gaza under Egyptian control until 1967.

What exactly did these fellow Arab states do to create a new Palestinian state ?

Fook all is the answer, yet they continually harp on about the plight of Palestinians under Israel.

They don't want them either, although they prove convenient for their leadership when their own countries come under scrutiny.

The Palestinian/Israeli conflict has always proven convenient for Arab and indeed non Arab muslim states.

I am surprised it didn't boil over the last few years to help keep the Clonskeagh Mulsim Brotherhood in power or take the heat off the Ayatollahs murdering women.

Hell it is now proving convenient for Russia.

Grayson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121362107#Comment_121362107

So what you're saying is that israel bears no responsibility for it's actions since 1967 because of what arab countries did before then.

If you want people to say that pre 67 Jordan and egypt were wrong, then that's ok. I'm sure most here would agree with you. But I don't see how that excuses the last 50 years.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121362107#Comment_121362107

Speaking of Russia, do you support Ukraine's right to exist and to have their own State? Do you think Ireland should express support for that?

circadian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121362062#Comment_121362062

Quite the leap you took there. They've put out who they're looking for information on and you just add completely unfounded claims that they're "frightened of Islamists" and that marches are "riddled from top to bottom with anti-semitism and Islamist sentiment" of which there is extremely little evidence.

brickster69

Former IDF sniper says they were told to collect kneecaps from protesters

https://twitter.com/real1maria/status/1723811804751462753