Hamas strike on Israel - mod warning in OP updated 19/10/23

sock.rocker* · 13-11-2023 12:26pm

Right, the Arab world is bullying Israel, and it keeps getting bigger and settling land with impunity, and it is backed by the US and Europe... And we're supposed to believe that it is its fear of absolute destruction, a threat to its very existence, that is driving it to wage war in the most callous and revolting manner possible.

I'm not buying it. No one outside of extremists believe that Israel is at risk of being overrun by the Middle East because of October 7th.

quokula · 13-11-2023 12:31pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121361612#Comment_121361612

"One side started this war" by displacing the Palestinians from their land, murdering them on an industrial scale for decades, kidnapping them and imprisoning them without due process, curtailing their most basic rights. They aren't even trying to hide their genocidal intent, as they now murder children in their thousands, attack maternity wards, blow up hospitals, bomb refugee camps, drop white phosphorous on civilians etc. Only one side is mass murdering women and children and babies and then rolling out the "human shield" argument without any evidence as if that justifies the murder of babies even if it were true.

You've got this massively violent militarised state actively murdering thousands of civilians while their government ministers have openly used genocidal language, one of the most heavily armed in the world that also has a cache of nukes at its disposal that ministers have even talked about dropping on Palestinian civilians, an apartheid state that explicitly affords citizens different rights based on their ethnicity, yet it's the muslims who are unable to live peacefully with their neighbours. It's pure Islamophobia and racism plain and simple to try and maintain that point of view.

jmreire · 13-11-2023 12:36pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121361573#Comment_121361573

Thats what I've found also in my travels. The vast majority of people that I've met their primary focus is the health and welfare of their families. And that alone is a daily struggle.

unkel · 13-11-2023 12:36pm

@quokula - "displacing the Palestinians from their land"

Their land? It was never their land. It was always owned by others. But yes it was offered to them for free to become their land, but they refused.

Tell me how · 13-11-2023 12:38pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121362062#Comment_121362062

That's it?

Holding Israel to account is anti-Semitic and marches are riddled with anti-Semitism and Islamist sentiment. Do you understand the principle of percentages? A handful of posters out of the million people marching is close to being statistically irrelevant.

What evidence have you that the Met is frightened by Islamists and are needed to be actively forced by Political pressure in to doing anything about them? Please show a link to support this (preferably not one from Julia Hartley-Brewer or GBNews or the likes.)

Tell me how · 13-11-2023 12:41pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121362303#Comment_121362303

Where do you think Shakespeare was referring to when he mentioned Palestine when writing Othello?

It was surely a land then, where was it?

Sir_Name · 13-11-2023 12:51pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121362303#Comment_121362303

Who's land was it? Source?

nacho libre · 13-11-2023 12:54pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121362262#Comment_121362262

Yes. Israel is going nowhere. A militia force relying on rockets, a third of which misfire, against one of the most powerful armies in the world is not a threat to their existence. No other conventional force in the region is either. Which is why Iran is not engaging Israel directly, instead it's relying on proxy forces to carry out attacks that do little overall damage to the Israeli military. These posters might be pushing that line of an existential threat to justify what's happening in Gaza.

dalyboy · 13-11-2023 1:08pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121361502#Comment_121361502

I agree with everything you’ve said. Maybe my prior post was too cryptic (error on my side)

brickster69 · 13-11-2023 1:39pm

Israel shuts down Al Mayadeen Network saying it affects state security. Nothing yet on Al Jazeera

https://twitter.com/TheInsiderPaper/status/1724041556376862897

randd1 · 13-11-2023 1:42pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121361851#Comment_121361851

That's the one thing I don't get about this whole thing. Hamas and the IDF are two side of the same murderous coin, it's just that one side has the better weapons.

I'm sure Israel would happily see all Palestinians removed, whether moved or killed, to secure it's future. And I'd no doubt that Hamas would happily and gleefully see the death of every single Israeli and every single Palestinian so long as one Palestinian stood at the end on top of the corpses.

We're dealing with a dirty war here. There's no right or wrong, there's just horror, and both sides are guilty of it. Calling out Israel for it's barbarism and war crimes is badly needed and needs to be continued, but the idea of siding with or being sympathetic to Hamas despite being a jihadist death cult, and not calling them out for their barbarism, their persistent war crimes and depraved view of the world is just madness. And the only thing stopping them from doing much worse to Israeli's is Israeli blockades.

This is a dirty, filthy war with no good on either side, and the only ones you should have sympathy for here in this conflict are the dead and the wounded on both sides who didn't want any of this.

jmayo · 13-11-2023 1:50pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121362147#Comment_121362147

Ehh you forgot 1973 when Arab countries attacked Israel once again.

Israel reched peace with Egypt when Egpyt finally agreed that Israel had a right to exist.

And they gave back the Sinai removing settlements that were there as part of that deal.

They reached peace settlement the Oslo accords with PLO, only for hardliners to assassinate Rabin.

They removed settlements from Gaza only for hamas to then take control.

And no I am not saying Israel, especially under Netanyahu, building settlements in West Bank has been right.

Palestinians are going to have to realise they are not getting their old lands back, they are not going to even get 1967 areas.

And that a state of Israel has a right to exist.

And hard line Palestinians are going to have to realise that Israel will bomb the sh** of them if they think they can carry out a Shoah Part 2.

Hard line Israelis are going to have to realise they need to get to fook out of West Bank, and let a Palestinian state of some shape exist.

Now unfortunately never the twin shall meet.

blanch152 · 13-11-2023 1:50pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121361851#Comment_121361851

Hamas have committed the most heinous war crimes even against their own population. It is difficult to conceive how a group can plan to put their own innocent civilian population deliberately in harms way, knowing that the military opposition will have no other realistic option other than to target them. It is a level of depravity and evil in Hamas that the world has rarely seen before. Even the Nazis wanted to look after their own, Hamas don't even care about their own.

jmayo · 13-11-2023 1:52pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121362168#Comment_121362168

Yes I do very much support Ukraine.

Then again they have never said they want to kill all Russians and actually set about doing it.

And please don't come back with the Azov brigade or some such.

jmayo · 13-11-2023 2:03pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121362262#Comment_121362262

Ok here is example for ya and then see what you think.

The government in NI say they want to wipe out the Republic and everyone living in it.

One day they launch an attack across the border, killing about 1000 people. (given our population difference it would equate to that)

Not just police and army, but women, children, babies and old people.

Then they leg it back across the border taking 180 women, children and old people with them as hostages.

WTF would you recommend the Irish government do?

Hold a fooking candlelit parade, write a strong letter to UN.

How do you think the breath of feeling in Ireland would be?

No other country has suffered a terrorist attack like this.

Ah yes we will hear about the years of oppression, the occupation which btw hasn't existed in Gaza for decades.

If this had come in West Bank at least there might be some excuse, but no it came from Gaza where hamas have been in total control.

And instead of trying to better the lot of their people, they have been stockpiling weapons and building tunnels for themselves.

And alot of people have been very happy to conveniently forget Israel have stated they will ceasefire if hamas release the hostages.

Donald Trump · 13-11-2023 2:06pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121362663#Comment_121362663

Would you call for the Irish government to issue 500k passports randomly to Ukrainians to come to live here permanently?

jmayo · 13-11-2023 2:07pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121362338#Comment_121362338

FFS now we are using Shakespeare as reason for a Palestinian state.

Fook lets get them all out and give back to the Romans.

They knew how to run the place.

jmayo · 13-11-2023 2:16pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121362652#Comment_121362652

Point of clarification...The Nazis in the end did not care about their own.

The SS hung kids from telephone poles.

Hitler ordered the destruction of Germany and that big two face Nazi war criminal that the West loved prevented it being carried out.

Islamists are the new nazis and anyone that thinks any different are morons, going like lamps to the slaughter.

Hamas are islamists, just like ISIS, al-qaeda, Boko Haram, Al-Shabaab, Abu Sayyaf, etc

amandstu · 13-11-2023 2:22pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121362652#Comment_121362652

Hitler was said ,by own of his associates to have said at the end that the German people were (to paraphrase)" not worthy of his vision" .

Some "populist"

Do Hamas entertain similar ideals about "their" population?

Donald Trump · 13-11-2023 2:37pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121362706#Comment_121362706

If we could turn back the clock, and if Catholics up North, alongside marching for civil rights after decades of oppression, had attacked the British State (as some of them did), it is nice to know you would have cheered on the Brits randomly leveling residential parts of Derry and nationalist areas in Belfast with airstrikes in response.

Rezident · 13-11-2023 2:40pm

Hamas are “operating in a way that is outside the bounds of any civilised concept of how you would think about using a hospital, using human shields”

Imagine being attacked by terrorists that hide in a hospital using hostages and babies as human shields? Even a Bond villain wouldn't do that.

Perhaps we should take a break from the middle east and fix the problems in Ireland instead? There will never ever be a lasting peace with that. Good luck to anyone living there. Good luck.

Sir_Name · 13-11-2023 2:42pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121362652#Comment_121362652

I agree with you. However, one does not negate the other. Israeli snipers killing hospital patients is also a war crime.

Donald Trump · 13-11-2023 2:46pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121362872#Comment_121362872

Did you never stop to think, in your unquestioning pandering to the Zionist propaganda, given that the IDF have said hospitals surrounded with infantry and tanks, if they have all the main Hamas lads in there, why are they still striking random residential blocks and markets full of people?

Have Hamas leaders mastered the art of bilocation?

One of the main propaganda videos released by the IDF was quickly debunked as identifying what was a a water tank at a hospital, as some Hamas HQ tunnel entrance.

blanch152 · 13-11-2023 2:52pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121362795#Comment_121362795

It would seem that they do, given that they put their own injured civilians in front of them as human shields in a war.

Look at the situation now, Israeli tanks are at the gates of the hospital. Why are Hamas fighting to keep them out of a hospital if it is just a civilian facility? Hand over the hospital to the Israelis and make them keep their promises about protecting the patients.

Tell me how · 13-11-2023 2:52pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121362728#Comment_121362728

It was mentioned in Othello, written in 1604, so this narrative that it didn't exist is patently untrue.

Hey boy · 13-11-2023 3:17pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121361766#Comment_121361766

Maybe they have but didn’t post it to boards. Not everything is published for wiseacres on the net to pontificate about. Maybe their priority with Qatar is hostages at present.

Homelander · 13-11-2023 3:17pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121362857#Comment_121362857

Except he didn't say that or anything remotely close.

The attack on Israel was an official Government declaration of war. It was designed, supported, funded, executed by the Government of Gaza.

The IRA was in no way linked to the Irish Government, nor supported by it, nor did it have big support from the Irish population.

They're not remotely comparable and trying to shoe horn in comparisons/making blatantly false equivalences achieves nothing whatsoever.

Donald Trump · 13-11-2023 3:22pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121363101#Comment_121363101

Why are you going on about the Irish government? Did you not know that they had no jurisdiction in Northern Ireland? Perfect example of a strawman

You guys can't be coming up with nonsense "arguments" and then giving out when they are turned against you

Catholics up North were discriminated against for decades by those that held the power. (i.e. the British). Nominally there was a Stormont parliament with local but the real power was wielded in reality by Westminister.

Palestinians have been discriminated against for decades by those that held power (i.e. Israel). Nominally there might be various authorities with some local power but the real power is coming from Tel Aviv

Some up North formed paramilitary groups that attacked their oppressors.

Some in Palestine formed paramilitary groups that attacked their oppressors

If you cheer on Israel for collectively punishing and murdering random Palestinians as a result, then it follows you would have done the same had the British blown up who neighbourhoods in Derry or Belfast.

Homelander · 13-11-2023 3:31pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121363142#Comment_121363142

You're the one who raised the UK bombing nationalist areas in response to terror attacks. And claimed some posters would be "cheering the bombings on" despite nothing whatsoever in the quoted post alluding to anything of that nature.

It's not remotely comparable to what's happening in Gaza. It doesn't make sense as a comparison. The Oct 7th assault was a Government-led act of war against another state, said Government has high level of support according to poll indications, said Government designed/executed the act of war.

If the Irish Government at any point had sent a thousand undercover Irish Army soldiers into Belfast, killed 1,400 UK citizens and taken others hostage, then yes I would expect there would be a massive military response against the Irish state.

Donald Trump · 13-11-2023 3:33pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121363203#Comment_121363203

Well you can ask your unionist buddies whether you think there was ever any link between those with political power in Northern Ireland and members of paramilitary organisations who might have been attacking elements of the British administration and State

Head in the sand stuff.

blanch152 · 13-11-2023 3:37pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121363142#Comment_121363142

Hamas have held power in Gaza since 2007, that is where your analogy completely fails and is seriously deficient. A strawman comparison to put it another way.

Donald Trump · 13-11-2023 3:39pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121363239#Comment_121363239

The IRA and similar groups controlled areas of Northern Ireland too. Perhaps you'd have been happy to cheer on the Brits if their airstrikes on civilians were limited to the likes of the Bogside

Sidestep that.

Augme · 13-11-2023 3:40pm

"OMG, Hamas use hospital as bases and use women and babies as human shields. What a bunch of monsters, its disgusting. Anyway, let's drop a bomb on them all ans blow everyone to pieces. That will solve the problem."

Sorry, who's meant to be the evil one in that scenario again?

Homelander · 13-11-2023 3:43pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121363217#Comment_121363217

"My Unionist buddies". "Cheering on Israel".

I suppose I should expect that level of complete childishness from someone called "Donald Trump".

Aren't you the same guy who tried to downplay Hamas by saying it was just "some group talking rhetoric"?

Hamas talking rhetoric. Classic. The fundamentalist jihadi organisation that murdered 1,400 people a few weeks ago and they're just "some group" and talking rhetoric.

It's not a video game. It's not a football match. You don't have to "have" a side, it's fine to think Israel and Hamas are both evil. I would say that if your hatred of Israel is so strong that you have to downplay the utter gutter dregs of existence that is Hamas, you have a serious problem.

facehugger99 · 13-11-2023 3:49pm

I wonder how many of the people at the marches in the UK would be able to point out Gaza on a map? - fcuk all I'd wager.

Half of them are anti-Semites using a thin veneer of support for Palestine as cover and the other half are useful idiots who'd march in support of whatever the latest social media issue-du-jour was.

Akrasia · 13-11-2023 3:57pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121363100#Comment_121363100

Their priority seems to be shelling and blockading hospitals

Given that Qatar are supposed to be an American ally. Yet they harbour this criminal, and rather than Israel using their political capital following on from the brutal murderous attack on 7th of October to demand that Ismail Haniyeh is arrested and handed over to Israel, they use that political capital to engage in a murderous brutal attack of their own.

Maybe if they actually wanted to have those hostages released, they would have Ismail Haniyeh arrested use him, and the hundreds of millions of dollars worth of resources he controls, as a way to get those hostages home safely

If Israel actually wanted to defeat Hamas, they should be targeting their leaders and their financial resources

What they're doing instead is something else.

unkel · 13-11-2023 3:58pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121363254#Comment_121363254

Hamas. Let's not forget it. They need to be eradicated.

Manic Moran · 13-11-2023 4:04pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121360819#Comment_121360819

The IDF may not have (I've not checked), but the UNRWA seems to have in this twit about damage to a UNRWA school.

https://twitter.com/UNRWA/status/1721844134502183394

I've not yet seen a viable explanation for this sort of thing other than collapsed tunnels.

Odhinn · 13-11-2023 4:15pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121362303#Comment_121362303

Is this the disproven nonsense about the land being owned by Ottoman turks....?

SafeSurfer · 13-11-2023 4:17pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121363267#Comment_121363267

Horrific as the attack on October 7th was, even the Israelis are not claiming 1400 people were murdered now due to some Hamas fighters being included in initial figures.

The figure for civilian dead is currently 845, with the remainder being IDF, police, Shin Bet etc. We also don’t know how many of those killed were killed as the result of IDF helicopter and tank attacks. Not that it diminishes in any way from the horror of the attack. I just thought those posters questioning the veracity of the figures for Palestinian dead would appreciate the most up to date figures provided by the Israelis.

blanch152 · 13-11-2023 4:19pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121363448#Comment_121363448

Does it matter whether the deaths were Hamas fighters or civilians? It seems that some people are claiming that all of the people killed by the Israelis are civilians, but that Hamas only kill IDF members. Smacks of more propaganda to me.