Hamas strike on Israel - mod warning in OP updated 19/10/23

Tell me how

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121372219#Comment_121372219

but with the big drive for multiculturism underway here in Ireland, we are slowly lessening that gap

Christ almighty.

jmreire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121372225#Comment_121372225

Really???

circadian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121372215#Comment_121372215

If you can't distinguish the difference between a serious post and a sarcastic post then maybe a message board isn't for you.

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121372215#Comment_121372215

Sorry what's fantastical about it?

I'm fierce sure it's been spouted many, many times in this thread, 'sure why doesn't Hamas have all the civilians in the tunnels with them' etc.,

So what's so fantastical about the comparison to other nations that have tunnels under civilian infrastructure?

Not to mention they do their luxury... shopping.. in the tunnels... and uhm ... ahem -- paragliders and the like. so like IDK what to say to you there.

Omar Shaban, a Gaza economist, estimated that smuggling comprised about 90% of market activity in the area and is worth around $30-$40 million a month. The tunnels, he said, were “integrated into the economy. We have a new economic structure now, a new business community.” 

Or is what I just read propaganda, you tell me: https://www.terrorism-info.org.il/Data/pdf/PDF_08_262_2.pdf

in your time

Danzy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121372081#Comment_121372081

Only snow will have Gaza, no Jew or arab

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121372246#Comment_121372246

Oh is that the plan? Only ash like snow on the surface? Not a bit of civilian infrastructure left standing? Off to the Sinai?

Or at least, I observe, that's what many of your posts have advocated for (which many experts bluntly point out, is ethnic cleansing). So that's what I assumed this post meant also. Apologies and please correct me if I have it wrong.

quokula

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121372107#Comment_121372107

Pretty much everything they have released has been thoroughly debunked at this stage as pure and total lies to try and justify their war crimes.

Meanwhile over one in every 200 people in Gaza has now been murdered by them.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121372241#Comment_121372241

Seeing as he doubled down on it, I don't think it was sarcastic, but valiant defence.

Danzy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121372261#Comment_121372261

It was more of a reflection on the thread going on about Montreal and ice storms.

Economics101

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121372124#Comment_121372124

The video you appear to be referring to is from CNN. CNN made it clear that there were restrictions (no facial identifications of mast IDF personnel for instance). But CNN also stated that they were allowed to take away whatever they filmed, without any pre-editing or censorship.

If it is a fake, then CNN must be stupid beyond belief. Which I don't think is the case.

Ulixes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121372129#Comment_121372129

For the record I've protested against quite a few things in my time and have strong opinions about the way Israel behaves in the West Bank (that's much closer to a slow ethnic cleansing than what's going on in Gaza) and how Palestinian Arabs have been betrayed and used by their leaders, Israel and their fellow Arab neighbours. I would condemn all of them from the corruption and theft by Arafat to the ineptitude of Fata to the savagery of Hamas to the barbaric indifference and manipulation of them by Israel, Egypt, Jordan and Syria.

I've had a post deleted for mentioning Yemen so I'll be careful in my response.

Over 100,000 children have been killed in the ongoing war in Yemen with total deaths from war, disease and starvation numbering over 350,000, a proxy war fought between Saudi Arabia and Iran.

Saudi Arabia has, since that war started, bought football teams, won the rights to host the Soccer World Cup and has bought professional Golf lock, stock and barrel. Where are the protests? Where are the calls for boycotts? Where are the calls for the expulsion of ambassadors? Who's stopped watching Football?

I think most people here, even the ones who totally condemn the actions of Israel in Gaza, consider Hamas to be terrorists. Their leadership live in Qatar and their funding runs though Qatar. Qatar owns Paris Saint-Germain and quite soon could own Manchester United. Will any of the Manchester United fans here who are protesting against Israel stop supporting United if that sales goes ahead?

This isn't like some bigot giving out about BLM or Pride. It's a bizarre double standard applied to the actions of one country while ignoring those of its neighbours. I'm not saying that people are anti Semitic or anything like that. I'm questioning why they get so wound up about the actions of Israel. I'm asking them to question it.

brickster69

Israel raise the flag over Al-Shifa hospital.

https://twitter.com/khaberni/status/1724766569312452835

quokula

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121372308#Comment_121372308

It would be far from the first time CNN uncritically regurgitated Israeli lies that were used to justify warcrimes without doing any proper fact checking. They've already had to issue an apology for promoting the completely fabricated story of beheaded babies. As has been pointed out, anyone who can read Arabic has already thoroughly debunked the calendar that was supposed to be a prime piece of evidence, yet CNN never noticed that. Why would you trust them on anything else when it looks clearly inconsistent in the footage and it goes against what all primary sources from doctors on the ground have been saying?

gotaf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121372215#Comment_121372215

Propaganda from boards.ie posters.

You need a break from it lad.

Ulixes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121372348#Comment_121372348

I'm not suggesting that Israel is above using misinformation and propaganda, all sides are in a war, but do you think that they are so inept at it? Plenty of IDF personnel can speak and read Arabic.

Cluedo Monopoly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121372337#Comment_121372337

Israel are really trying to garner the ire of the world. Who is advising their politicians and military commanders? People had so much sympathy for the Israeli people after the barbaric attacks on Oct 7 but somehow Israel have turned it around with an illegal massacre and untold destruction. It's like they had this annihilation plan all along and just waited for the moment to enact it.

Ulixes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121372426#Comment_121372426

Israel are really trying to garner the ire of the world. Who is advising their politicians and military commanders?

Yes, the level of triumphalism from many in the IDF and Israeli government is appalling.

Fuascailteoir

Where are all the genocide cheerleaders gone

brickster69

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121372426#Comment_121372426

The spooky thing is that video, quite prophetic when you think about it.

https://twitter.com/roo7yn/status/1718470001294758261

jmayo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121369449#Comment_121369449

Ehh lets see.

Lets pretend I am foreigner working in hospital in Gaza, that is run by hamas, and I should tell the world they are using the hospital as a base.

I wonder how that would work out for me.

If I was a woman I might expect to be, you know, gang raped as per their norm before they kill me and if I was a man I would expect swift throat slitting. Then they claim I was killed in Israeli bomb.

FFS I really often wonder what age people are here.

Oh before you argue they could say something if they have already left, they might realise others they would care about would suffer in their place.

And how does anyone know that ex workers from there haven't fed information to security services in secret about what is going on?

The arguments here are fooking ridiculous.

An army is trying to rid an area of enemy fighters, they are on tight schedule so they decide to just hang around outside a hospital and not continue with an advance. A major reason for not pushing on is to not leave pockets of resistance to your rear.

This is a proper military with decades of experience fighting, often employing fast moving advances, not a fooking shambles like our own.

But the anti Israeli experts here claim they are hanging around because they just don't like hospitals in Gaza.

Ulixes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121372498#Comment_121372498

There are those on both sides of this conflict who want that so you'll have to be more specific.

political analyst

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-67368409

There is anger bubbling in some communities in Germany about the political classes' perceived reluctance to criticise Israel.

Surely, that can be addressed by explaining to those communities that Hamas started the current war and is using Palestinian civilians in Gaza as human shields, can't it?

Ulixes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121372504#Comment_121372504

Has the translation into English been verified?

SafeSurfer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121372512#Comment_121372512

Hundreds of medical staff with no remaining relations in Gaza including Irish doctors and nurses have worked in Al Shifa hospital over the years. Are they all just pretending that the Hamas headquarters is not at the hospital too?

Sir_Name

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/israel-raids-gazas-al-shifa-hospital-2023-11-15/

Confirmed once inside the hospital there was no fighting.

circadian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121372532#Comment_121372532

No.

Wolf359f

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121372388#Comment_121372388

And yet they showed a calendar with days of the week claiming it was a list of names of Hamas people who were guarding the prisoners at the hospital.

Very very bad propaganda or maybe just inept. Maybe they believed before entering the hospital that it was a Hamas command center which held hostages. When none was found they began clutching at straws to see what they wanted to see, maybe to help justify the mass deaths the IDF have inflicted on women and children.

We're at the Russian level of craziness, maybe the IDF spokesman doesn't even really believe the crap they say, but they are so far down the rabbit tunnels, they keep going.

ceadaoin.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121372081#Comment_121372081

Yeah it's gone from "there are no tunnels" to "well there are but Israel built them" and "it's all normal anyway for storms and earthquakes". Literally not one person claimed that Israel built the tunnels before maybe yesterday? The prior line was that they don't exist.

Fuascailteoir

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121372512#Comment_121372512

So the brave heroic fighters of the IDF managed to get past the doctors, patients and babies in the hospital and plant an Israeli flag on the roof. Granted a paraplegic man in a hospital bed had to be shot. He must have put up a fair bit of resistance

Cluedo Monopoly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121372569#Comment_121372569

Everyone knows tunnels exists in Gaza. Weeks ago people here said there were 500km of tunnels. They found SFA in the Israeli built Al-Shifa tunnels (Hamas HQ). Fine. Whatever. How does all this tunnel talk justify bombing hospitals all over Gaza and preventing fuel/power/water/food and medical supplies getting into these hospitals? Israel have normalised the bombing of hospitals for you now?? Can they flatten ever hospital with the "but there is a tunnel" excuse?? It's ok to shut down two thirds of medical facilities during a war??

Wolf359f

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121372569#Comment_121372569

It's gone from show me evidence of a command center under the hospital yesterday to.... show me the evidence of a command center under the hospital today.

It's the IDF rowing back saying there's tunnels connecting to such and such..... No mention of a command center all of a sudden.

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121372512#Comment_121372512

If I was a woman I might expect to be, you know, gang raped as per their norm before they kill me and if I was a man I would expect swift throat slitting. Then they claim I was killed in Israeli bomb.

I'll leave you there, arguing absurd counterfactual strawmen.

No such thing has happened to the healthcare workers at the hospital.

Honestly.

nacho libre

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121370977#Comment_121370977

That might be there declared intention but, they can't succeed that's the point. If they thought they were capable of inflicting a military defeat of Israel this would be a wider war already. They haven't because they know they will be soundly beaten. That's why Iran talks a big game but is reduced to using proxies which are not a threat to Israels existence. It's almost as if the Iranians don't really believe in the rhetoric of martyrdom they use, a bit like the lads in Qatar!

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121372569#Comment_121372569

Prior to that report, we had no idea how Israel "knew" there were tunnels there.

Now we're up to speed.

Cluedo Monopoly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121371295#Comment_121371295

@unkel Just a reminder on this. It's an important direct question. I have seen you skirt this before.

You said "It is not up to Israel to supply water, food, medical supplies, power, etc. by the way." which is patent nonsense.

jmayo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121372545#Comment_121372545

Do you seriously think they would have a sign that says Hamas HQ Basement.

If the Israelis have any cop on they will reconnect the hospital to services somehow and bring in supplies and medical staff.

And if they can't find tunnels under it/linked to it then the clearout of Netanyahu and his cronies, IDF chief of staff Gen Halevi, Shin Bet head Ronen Bar and Mossad head David Barnea should be immediate because it will be as big an intelligence cock up as Oct 7th.

nacho libre

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121371530#Comment_121371530

I am beginning to sound like a broken record, your suggestion is a good one but there needs to be a twin approach - The Hamas leaders in Qatar need to be sanctioned and Qatar has to be given an ultimatum by the Americans: either give up the Hamas leaders or risk economic sanctions

circadian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121372512#Comment_121372512

Who's norm is gang rape?!?

Tell me how

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121372332#Comment_121372332

Are you sure about 100,000 children being killed in the ongoing war in Yemen?

Link

Yemen's war broke out in 2014 and quickly saw Iran-backed Houthi rebels seize the capital Sanaa, prompting Saudi-led forces to intervene to prop up the government the following year.

Hundreds of thousands have died since, either as a result of fighting or indirectly through unsafe drinking water, disease outbreaks, hunger and other impacts.

The agency's latest numbers confirm 3,774 child deaths between March 2015 and September 2022.

So if the UN is correct, less children died in 364 weeks in Yemen than died in 4 weeks in Gaza.

Unfortunately, there are some conflicts/situations/scenarios that get more attention than others. It isn't always obvious why this is the case, part of it could be a snowball effect that as something is mentioned, it gets attention, and is mentioned more, and gets more attention and so on.

But I think why so many people are aggrieved about Israels actions comes down to a number of reasons.

• The proportionality of Israel's response has been so out of whack that it gets attention.
• The rhetoric from Israel about 'everyone is guilty', 'we are dealing with animals', 'we will have a Nakba' is very genocidal
• How western nations and the EU have supported them in their actions almost without question
• That despite the Jewish peoples recent history, that they would inflict pain and condemnation on a community of people with much of the same rhetoric that was aimed at then and which led them to claim 'Never Again' and yet here, they are the persecutors (not withstanding the attack from Hamas or rockets fired)
• There is no question but that the 2.5M people living in Gaza have been corralled and persecuted for a long time, a lot of the support for Palestine is coming from indigenous people worldwide who feel an affinity with them given their own colonial experience.

Me personally, I've been appalled at Israel officials attempts to manipulate the suffering of the Jewish people to permit their official bodies inflict death and suffering and expulsion on a community of people. Not just officials, but defenders of their actions including on here using claims of anti-Semitism, holocaust denial etc to casually dismiss any sort of criticism of their actions. The Israeli officials wearing the star of David in the UN while it did what it was doing in Gaza is one of the most cynical and darkest moments of a countries representatives I have seen and in my mind, is an insult to the memory of those who died while wearing that badge 80 years ago.

And again, for the record, for the Nth time, I do not support a single claim of Hamas in terms of wishing to erase Israel or any sort of justification for their attack on Oct 7th.

hotmail.com

About 1,000 people outside the Dail at the moment.

This Gaza War was a godsend for the opposition. They don't have to pretend to favour a winter eviction ban. Not a peep about that.

SafeSurfer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121372608#Comment_121372608

Going by the ridiculously unconvincing Israeli propaganda to date, it wouldn’t surprise me if they showed a sign saying Hamas HQ as proof.

Bring in supplies and medical staff to the hospital? To serve who? Most of the population of Northern Gaza has gone south as dictated by the IDF.

Ulixes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121372613#Comment_121372613

I think he's the guy from Blazing Saddles who said he liked rape. I didn't know his name was Norm. Every day's a school day.

jmayo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121372613#Comment_121372613

Well lets see hamas, ISIS, Taliban, RSF and Janjaweed.

Notice a trend here per chance.

tayto lover

So what does the IDF do now seeing that there was no resistance at the hospital? Where are Hamas hiding now? Maybe under a school or a creche or some other place they. Hamas seems to have made them look very foolish.

nacho libre

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121370769#Comment_121370769

A lot of the civilians killed in the October 7th attack were just like her doing their best to build bridges between the two communities. I remember reading about one guy who dedicated his life to a peace group. His brother was heckled while delivering a speech at his brother's Funeral because he mentioned his brother would not want vengeance in his name. Why did those people even bother going to the funeral if they couldn't have the manners not to heckle like that.

Ulixes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121372567#Comment_121372567

Yea, very strange. I'm still more inclined, in a deeply sceptical way, to believe the Israeli's more than Hamas as Israel has a free press whereas Hamas get a bit murdery those who disagree with them. What's very clear is that both Gaza and Israel are led by people who are just appalling human beings.

jmayo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121372635#Comment_121372635

So hang on we have the dying, babies, women, children in the hospital one minute and now according to you we don't?

We have arguments one minute about allowing fuel and supplies to hospitals and now you are saying what's the point?

This is getting as bad as there are/there aren't tunnels.

Odhinn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121372644#Comment_121372644

O noes!!! Teh muzlams!!!!!!!!

brickster69

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121372579#Comment_121372579

Don't forget that refugee camp that got raised to the ground because some Hamas commander was spotted driving his range rover through an underground tunnel.

Cluedo Monopoly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121372653#Comment_121372653

They have done ambulances and refugee camps already.

Actually I am pretty sure many schools have been hit. For no reason thus far except maybe..cos Hamas.