Hamas strike on Israel - mod warning in OP updated 19/10/23

tayto lover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121383811#Comment_121383811

Hopefully many will have to face charges for their wrongdoing. You cannot, as elected politicians, legally accept the methods Israel has used to murder 11.000 people including 4.500 children in 3 weeks and not answer for it.,

SafeSurfer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121383920#Comment_121383920

I have just returned from the Ypres salient. Hundreds of skull fragments are found each year and every year for more than a hundred years. All obvious proof of decapitation.

Do Hamas have a long history of beheadings?

brickster69

Distressing content.

A UNRWA school bombed from the air

https://twitter.com/hassanjaldeen/status/1725844706561511456

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121383945#Comment_121383945

The Petrous is from inside the skull, it seems it was the only part found. A hundred plus years after a conflict you will only find bones. Basically you are trying to muddy the water. Explain to me how a bone from inside the skull was found and no other part of the body is there maybe a dog came and eat the rest of the body completely

circadian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121383868#Comment_121383868

No excuse for that behaviour. Any idea what the debate was about?

tayto lover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121383986#Comment_121383986

How could that even be called a debate. Two people screaming at each other and nobody could make out a word of it.

Weepsie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121383677#Comment_121383677

Again, Oct 7th was not the beginning of this

circadian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121383997#Comment_121383997

That's my point, we see a few seconds of the event. There's no context beyond the people screaming at each other. Had the debate started? Was there inflammatory comments before this? This is the problem with social media, things can be chopped and uploaded to fit a particular agenda without context.

SafeSurfer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121383965#Comment_121383965

You are the person claiming someone was beheaded so it is up to you to prove your claim.

Discovery of a bone is not proof of beheading.

circadian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121383953#Comment_121383953

Horrific.

circadian

The refusal to allow independent accountability or journalism speaks volumes.

SafeSurfer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121383953#Comment_121383953

#mostmoralarmy

jmreire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121383149#Comment_121383149

It's been my view all along and I've posted it here several times already, that it's not over until it's over, and all this emphasis that finding a Hamaz command centre underneath the hospital is the be all and end all of it. They have barely scratched the surface (literally) of these tunnels, there's reportedly somewhere between 3 and 5 hundred Klms of them to be searched. Some as deep as 3 hundred feet. And most of them will not be searched, even into the future if / when Hamaz is defeated because of booby traps. Meanwhile the world is rejoicing "Yippee, Israel lying propaganda now exposed, no Hamaz command center under the Hospital." and so it goes. But (big BUT) supposing, say in 2- or 3-weeks' time that the IDF does find undeniable evidence that Hamas was using the tunnels not only as a command centre, but also producing and storing large quantities of weapons? Medical facilities? That would turn the whole ballgame upside down. I've heard it said that the Tunnels equal the London Underground in terms of size and complexity. Now just imagine what can be done in a place like that. For sure, I would not rule out the IDF finding indisputable evidence that Hamaz was using the tunnels.

As for US continuing unwavering support for Israel, seems very like it, but then again, with American politics, who really knows? As for Israel giving a ****...they don't, end of story. As far as they are concerned, 6 million of them were exterminated by Hitler, and that's not going to happen again ever. And that shapes their attitude. The fact that they have been forced to fight several wars with their nearest Neighbours since the foundation of the state of Israel and presently they are under threat again of total destruction just serves to reinforce their beliefs determines their actions.

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121384063#Comment_121384063

Once again you are trying to muddy the water with disinformation. I suspect that you never read the description of the Petrous. Anyway I did not say she was beheaded, I said it was not an unreasonable assumption to make when the only part of her body that was found was the Petrous which come from inside the skull under the cranial cavity.

It's not some random piece of bone found a hundred+ years after a conflict. At present there is attempts to muddy the water about what happened on October 7th.

It is accepted that it is her body in the back of the pickup driven by Hama's terrorist as she is identified by the tattoo below her knee.

She was a pacifist and had used her German nationality to avoid nation service in Israel. Why was her body stripped before placement on the truck. She was used as a trophy like the head of a stag or a stuffed fox from a different era.

By the positioning of of her left leg it looks like it was twisted and broken before or after death.

As I stated for the Petrous bone come come free of the head a fairly savage knife cut across the throat was need whether she was beheaded or not is not known.

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121384040#Comment_121384040

What context do you need he was screaming about doing October 7th again and again

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121383868#Comment_121383868

That fella is going to be waking up mortified today as that clip travels around the world.

Everyone is going to know he wasn't able to get into a decent university.

On a more serious note, someone took the time to blur out the shouting girls face but not the fella shouting. If they were going to do that, surely they should have done both?

jmreire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121383667#Comment_121383667

It's a well-known figure of speech and does not especially apply to the situation in Gaza. Have you ever heard the expression " Don't give up the day job"? same meaning, and not to be taken literally.

But on the subject of Gaza unemployment figures, and applicable everywhere ( Syria,Afghanistan,Pakistan etc) in Country's with high unemployment figures, you will find large numbers of people, (able bodied men especially) joining the likes of Hamaz, ISIS, Al-Quaida, Taleban etc. many not out of any great religious conviction (but outwardly they have to maintain the appearances of the devout) but solely because it's a means of supporting their families. It's the only income available. That has applied for many years in Gaza and applies there now too. They work for Hamaz, and when they are finished, walk back out onto the street, and go home to their families. All perfectly normal looking and above board.

SafeSurfer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121384151#Comment_121384151

“whether she was beheaded or not is not known.”

So you admit the truth in your last sentence. Thank you.

You also state without evidence that

“for the Petrous bone come come free of the head a fairly savage knife cut across the throat was need” this is utter speculation. In a conflict environment with grenades, rockets, tank and helicopter fire, is the only way for the Petronius bone to become detached a savage knife cut? No, of course not.

Misinformation is the Israeli Defence forces, which have hundreds of people working in propaganda and have sophisticated technical abilities in photo geo location, date stamping etc, claiming a photo of a dead Kurdish woman from May, was a raped Israeli civilian from October and thousands of people such as yourself using this type of misinformation (since deleted) as evidence.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121383953#Comment_121383953

The sick thing is that, for some on here, actual video of bodies of kids strewn around rooms today is less important than fabricated tales on beheaded babies from over a month ago.

You can't bring back the dead people, but you can stop more from being unnecessarily killed. Surely that would be the priority for most reasonable people?

circadian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121384163#Comment_121384163

The why. Why was he doing that? That's the context. People are so quick to just see something like this, not look for context and then label people as terrorists or anti-semites or whatever else. Is he justified in it? Of course not, there's no rational reason to behave like this but at the same time, context paints a more complete picture.

It's the same with the whole conflict and society in general. Israel are dead set on crushing Hamas and Palestine with it if that needs to be the case without realising that they are not actually tackling the root cause. In failing to tackle the question, "why do Hamas exist?" then Hamas and other organisations like it WILL CONTINUE TO EXIST.

Tell me how

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121384194#Comment_121384194

Haven't seen even the IDF come out with this nonsense that most people are working for Hamas.

The furthest day go is implying that because Hamas got 44% of the vote in elections 16 years ago that everyone in Gaza supports them, which is BS in and of itself, but to suggest that a significant number of the men work for them as you are doing is without basis in any sort of factual evidence as afar as I can see.

nacho libre

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121384113#Comment_121384113

We were led to believe that Israel had a detailed map of the layout of the command center from spies within in the hospital. If this is the case it shouldn't take them to long to find it. I am not ruling out there being one under the hospital, but i would tend to believe not. I just don't see how Hamas would be able to dismantle it all and get all the hostages to another place without being detected- unless these underground systems are connected all the way to Khan Younis. Otherwise I am not buying it, as Hamas's military machine has effectively being destroyed in Gaza City.

Israel are under no threat of total destruction. Maybe given their history they have this paranoid fear of being wiped out but upon analysis it has no basis in reality. Israel is the dominant power in the region backed up by a superpower. No conventional force in the region is a threat to their existence much less a militia with no airforce or navy.

Donald Trump

I googled about the UCD thing. Here is a Palestinian looking fella getting assaulted just before the other fella kicked off

https://twitter.com/_ayeshaii/status/1725329332048941074

It looks like the white haired fella tried to unfurl some T-shirt which was snatched off him

https://twitter.com/karenievers/status/1725480014794174770

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121384223#Comment_121384223

Indeed - the IDF should have captured dozens or hundreds of terrorists at Al Shifa hospital if it was supposedly a Hamas command and control centre for the whole of Gaza. Did they reveal capturing or killing even one terrorist at the hospital site?

Tell me how

5 weeks ago, Israel told everyone in Northern Gaza to move south, for their own safety.

They then said that Hamas was sheltering in the Al Shifa hospital which they then raided and found no legitimate evidence that this was the case.

Now, they are telling people in southern Gaza to move again, for their own safety.

They have also now started to say that the real location of Hamas operations is at a hospital in south Gaza.

They are clearing the Gaza strip as they carry out their Genocide. Israel is a rogue state.

circadian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121384244#Comment_121384244

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7zMYQxbqHo

Full video here.

RoyalCelt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121384163#Comment_121384163

Yeah it started with 638 AD with the Caliph Umar. Kinda similar timeline to the English invading Ireland but the English were not as successful with their cleansing of this island.

Your argument is stupid because ultimately if you want peace you need to get over history and live together. Northern Ireland a pretty recent example where 2 opposite cultures put aside their differences for peace.

RoyalCelt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121384262#Comment_121384262

Unfortunately due to the nature of HAMAS terrorists standard uniform being civilian clothing the Israeli terrorists have an excuse (in their minds) to keep this going for as long as they want.

For all the talk from HAMAS about their bravery and their willingness to fight to the end they really show cowardice when faced with death.

jmreire

So far, the IDF have only searched an extremely small area of tunnels beneath the hospital and basically, only scratched the surface. It's also very possible that if Hamas had been using the tunnel directly under the hospital, then it would have been "cleaned of any real evidence before the attack on the 7th. Hamaz knew very well what would happen after the attack and planned for such events. The IDF knew very well some areas of the tunnels, the part that they had built themselves, but the newer additions? That I'm not so sure about, but time will tell.

From the safety, security and invisibility of working hundreds of klms of tunnels buried between 2 & 3 hundred feet below ground, sure you could. Hamaz has moved equipment, men and supplies, and at their leisure at that. No problem. Bring in the night shift. Thats not a joke by the way. How do you think that hundreds and hundreds klms of tunnels were built???

Whether its possible or not for Israel to be defeated, does not matter. What matter is what Israeli's believe, and if they think they are under threat, that's enough for them. Just look at how long Putin has held power, all based on the lie that he is saving Russians from the Ukrainian Nazi's?

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121384291#Comment_121384291

But the very reason the IDF gave for entering the Al Shifa hospital was that they claimed it was a 'current' command and control centre for Hamas and the biggest such one in Gaza. If it was a former one, there would be no need whatsoever to go near the hospital (as it would supposedly be now clear of terrorists).

Tell me how

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121384278#Comment_121384278

They've no army, no airforce, no navy, no tanks, no artillery, no supply lines.

This isn't a war, it's a brutal show of strength against a guerilla organization.

And Israel is providing recruits fir that organization for the next 20 years.

If you were a 25 yr old man whose entire family was killed in a missile attack, would you wait for future elections to try and vote Hamas out as you're being told to do by your attackers and their funders?

Or would you pick up a rocket if you had the chance? I know what I would do. And all of the ubernationalists in western nations are very vocal about the need to defend their own respective countries, and yet they are denouncing Palestinians for actually doing so in practice.

Fuascailteoir

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121384262#Comment_121384262

They are telling people to move west now.

IDF claiming they are providing UN with fuel and aid but UN are claiming none received at all. IDF lying through their teeth and pushing the Palestinian people towards a major catastrophe. Israel needs to be brought to heel in the strongest terms

SafeSurfer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121384416#Comment_121384416

The intention is to remove the Palestinian population from Gaza. If they can’t forcibly expel them they will make Gaza uninhabitable by destroying the housing stock, infrastructure, everything. They are literally bulldozing Gaza out of existence through their policy of Bomb, Bulldoze, Wipeout.

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121383486#Comment_121383486

Lost me at “ethnic cleansing is exaggeration”

decades of this now. How can anyone deny the evidence. Israeli Holocaust and Genocide experts say the same.

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121383916#Comment_121383916

This current war has lasted decades what do you mean

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121384196#Comment_121384196

Can you explain how the Petrous bone was found not attached to her skull. Considering that Hama's terrorists were the only people with access to her body before they use it as a war trophy in Gaza.

Her body shows no sign of bullet, grenade or explosive wounds. There was comment that her head was in the pickup as well as there was sight of her dreadlocks. It is not know where it was attached or partially attached or completely removed from here body. You are virtually trolling at this stage and continuing with misinformation about her murder. I have given you all the information you just choose to ignore it.

You are typically of anti-Semite's who hide there total hatred of the Jewish people covering it as sympathy for the Palestinian people

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121384453#Comment_121384453

Claiming that they have 'no choice' but to do it in order to keep Israel safe. It seems Israel's safety will come at the expense of an entire population of 2m people being ethnically cleansed of their land.

Overheal

“We are now rolling out the Gaza Nakba. From an operational point of view, there is no way to wage a war – as the IDF seeks to do in Gaza – with masses between the tanks and the soldiers.”

https://www.juancole.com/2023/11/describes-catastrophic-cleansing.html

freebritney

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121383920#Comment_121383920

Fairly graphic and accurate description of the barbaric act of cutting someones throat. Given your medical knowledge could you describe the effects of over pressure from an explosion on a human body, especially a childs. Maybe describe how the organs are basically liquidised. While we're at it you might descibe the feelings of terror when the building your in collapses due to a JDAM strike and you find yourself buried alive, wedged up against the body parts of your child/parent/sibling. The pilot flying the F35 or the Predator drone gets no less of a free pass than the guy hacking someones neck.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121384262#Comment_121384262

It is as clear as daylight. You would be stupid in the head to believe otherwise.

Israels gaslighting is comical. Comical Israel.

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121384215#Comment_121384215

The root case cannot be tackled as Hama's was unwilling to talk/ negotiate with Israel. The Camp David summit in 2000 between Yasser Arafat and Ehud Barak hosted by Clinton was the last real attempt and that showed that the Palestinians were incapable of coming to an agreement. Barak conceded, conceded and conceded but Arafat never gave what his expectations for a settlement were and when it reached the final stages he walked away.

How can you negotiate with an entity who's raisin de etre is the complete destruction of Israel. Look at there cry ''from the river ( Jordan) to the sea Palestine will be free'' maybe some chanting that do not understand stand the meaning but most do and those who originally started shouting it did as well.

Hama's has had nearly twenty years to do something positive for the Palestinian people instead it has created a labyrinth of tunnels to rival the London Underground.

The reality is Israel can only look at this from a security viewpoint as both Hamas and Hezbollah as well as most other factions want the destruction of Israel. Unfortunately Hamas by its action and the Palestinian people by there acceptance of Hamas within them have brought the old Roman curse of ''Iron and ashes'' down upon them.

This could end of the hostages were released and if Hamas left Gaza.tge problem for the Palestinian's even if there was a solution tomorrow morning, the Palestinians themselves are unwilling to enforce that settlement.

In 2000 at Camp David they were offered Gaza and the West Bank with an overhead road/ railway connecting them with certain security considerations for Israel. They refused that solution. I do not think they will get that offer again.

jmreire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121384352#Comment_121384352

So, they gave this as a reason or justification for attacking the areas near the hospital ( i don't know if the actual hospital was hit or only the grounds.)? But it matters not one whit to the Israelis. They are hunting Hamaz, wherever they may be, and they do not give a damn about justification etc. In so far as it goes, they are only interested in giving their operations a veneer of "civilization". Hence the claim that Hamaz had a command center directly beneath the hospital. But that's as far as it goes, and now the hunt continues. Don't be too surprised when many other Mosques, Schools etc. are targeted as well. Any " Places of Interest" will come under attack. To put it mildly, Israel now reminds me of a runaway horse, at full gallop, with the bit between its teeth.

This is how I see it, and not to be taken as either support or condemnation for either side. Both have broken the Geneva Conventions and International Law, and both are as guilty as hell.

freebritney

I saw a video where a anti zionist Rabbi was describing how the Palestinians are not antisemetic, they are anti-settler. I think that is the greatest stroke Israel has pulled, equating being against settlement expansion and the treatment of Palestinians with antisemitism. If the settlers were Pastafarians from the Church of the Flying Spagetti Monster I'm pretty sure Hamas and the other organisations would exist. It allows them to shut down all legitimate criticism of their actions and is used on this thread on a daily basis. I think people are coping on to it and getting sick of the vicitm mentality Israel constantly deployes.

Tell me how

This guy is as no different to those who fly flags with a swastika.

https://twitter.com/snarwani/status/1725859238805705199?t=hxaHJ6zLP98nOtsFljajqQ&s=19

Israel actions and this mindset is so detrimental to Jewish people and is going to hurt them for years.

Cordell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121384661#Comment_121384661

This guy is as no different to those who fly flags with a swastika

Or from those chanting from the river to the sea.

Tell me how

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121384665#Comment_121384665

Stop buying the zionist extremist narrative just because their enemy is your enemy.

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121384587#Comment_121384587

In any conflict there is information and misinformation. Many on Palestinian side here grab onto 1-2 sound bites where there was an error made in the heat of the moment by an Israeli politician. Many are trying to turn the deaths that happened on October 7 as being partly or mainly Israeli action.

The Shani Louk disinformation campaign is similar, the harping on about there is no proof that she was beheaded is immaterial, she was savagely murdered, her body was used as a war trophy and paraded in her undergarments. I suspect her body was washed as her throat was cut ( Petrous bone no longer in her head) and there is little sign of blood on her body, it was also probably the reason her dress was removed.

But the way certain posters carry on here excusing the savagery of Hamas on October 7th shows there total contempt for Israel and there anti semitism even though they like to think they are not.

War is not pleasant but if the Palestinian people will not police there own territory then unfortunately Israel will. I suspect that Israel is going to clear or virtually clear Gaza and disperse the population I do not agree with it but I can see there reasoning.

Negotiating is like a Tango dance it takes two to do it. Hamas has shown it is unwilling to negotiate it wanted war it has got war, it taught it actions were a recruitment for it. Israel has decided enough is enough. If the Palestinians and the Arabs in general are going to continue to accept attacks on Israel then Israel will carry out a security solution

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121384276#Comment_121384276

The difference is in Northern Ireland there was multiple people willing to talk and back in 1922 when we achieved independence we had people who when they had a democratic mandate enforced that mandate. It caused a civil war but the solution was enforced creating one of the oldest democracy's in the world.

The Palestinians have had numerous opportunities to have a peaceful settlement, but they want the destruction of Israel which is not going to happen

tayto lover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121384254#Comment_121384254

Will you give them a chance. They're busy digging the tunnel they have to find to prove their claims.

freebritney

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121384678#Comment_121384678

There is no soundbites being grabbed onto. On Oct 7th Hamas murdered over a 1000 Israeli's, it happened, no one is denying it. Israel has used this incident to committ a genocide on the people of Gaza, you've said so yourself. Israel has also told lies in describing how many of the people murdered on that day died, using the most viscoral images of beheaded infants and raped children to garner support for what they know is a wholly disproportionate response to the attack.

A nuclear military, armed with the most sophisticated weaponary on the planet is under as much extistential threat from an armed militia as Ireland is from Pitcairn Island. This whole conflict becomes much easier to view when you see it as the simple white European colonisation of a country in the Middle East instead of some mumbo jumbo of a race of people returing to their homeland after 2000 years based on a book of fairytales. Just view it as a modern day American expansion into the West. The Israeli's are the settlers, the Palestinians the Native Americans and they've taken their land, forced them onto reservations and broken treaty after treaty.