Hamas strike on Israel - mod warning in OP updated 19/10/23

sock.rocker*

Because we found a solution to our conflict and that solution is something they absolutely do not want. Better to lambast Ireland now so it never gains traction in Israel.

sock.rocker*

Imagine if the UK held up a similar map in 1990 showing Ireland as being entirely part of the UK.

sock.rocker*

Peace cannot exist, the West Bank must be driven to support Hamas, and then the Middle East can exist how he imagines it.

tinytobe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121426875#Comment_121426875

You see that sadly often on the streets of Dublin, that some people believe that Hamas is not as bad. See all the Palestinian flags around in Dublin.

I find that bothersome. Especially in the political left, Palestinian support is strong.

Anybody ever showing support and flying an Israeli flag if Hamas and Hezbollah attack Israel?

Hey boy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121426479#Comment_121426479

Put like that it doesn’t look great. Is that the whole picture? Or, might there have been a little more to the context in the West Bank since Oct 7th, such as I don’t know, a bit of a stabbing here and there?

Settler violence and expansion is condemned.

Hey boy

If Hamas are decent blokes after all why are they insisting on 1 for 3 releases, even for kids?

What about the 10 month old baby that they allegedly can’t find?

TheRepentent

oh noes , a sectarian apartheid state criticizes Ireland!

https://www.rte.ie/news/2023/1127/1418671-irish-ambassador-israel-varadkar-comments/

Ireland should diplomatically tell the Israeli war criminals to go fuk a camel.

Weepsie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121426947#Comment_121426947

Supporting Palestine and its people does not mean supporting Hamas. You can condemn hamas and think Israel is bang out of order at the same time

pjohnson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121426979#Comment_121426979

Sure Israeli's are always getting lost, can't blame Hamas.

brickster69

Germany increasing military aid to Israel.

https://twitter.com/CramescoPC/status/1729371547347857516

brickster69

Explains a lot lads

https://twitter.com/netanyahupress/status/1729248284794126793

Igotadose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121427331#Comment_121427331

From a parody account with the actual Hebrew obfuscated. DId you listen to it and can translate? Seems like just more WUMmery

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121425266#Comment_121425266

There was no first or second part. Hamas demanded many more prisoners to be released then they released hostages. I asked what's to stop them doing it again.

Your reply ' why wouldn't they '

nacho libre

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121427529#Comment_121427529

You know well that for IDF prisoners they will seek the release of more Palestinians prisoners in return. That's the way it has always been in these exchanges . The only difference this time is that the ratio won't be as disapportionate as it was for Shalit's release and people like Sinwar won't be released as part of the exchange. Hamas will accept it as they are under pressure. That is why they were keen to extend the truce and will be keen to extend it again. The complication is some of the remaining hostages are held by Islamic Jihad.

Sudden Valley

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121427529#Comment_121427529

If israels stated goal for their operation is to destroy Hamas completely then how can they then kidanp hostages in the future? Or is that just a pipe dream and they are killing all these civilians with no real belief that they will destroy Hamas?

jmreire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121426479#Comment_121426479

I'd be wondering just what these 116 Palestinians were doing to get themselves arrested??? I doubt very much that Israel would be that stupid at this (especially the present time) to just go out on the streets and pick 116 Palestinians willy-nilly and imprison them. These 116 were (to my mind anyway) deliberately provoking the Israelis. to get exactly the reaction that seems to be happening.

Wolf359f

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121427314#Comment_121427314

Article is 6 weeks old. Have Germany provided any military aid to Israel since then?

brickster69

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121427679#Comment_121427679

Did you read it ?

jmreire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121426875#Comment_121426875

To my mind, Hamas is nothing more than an Islamic Jihadi Terrorist organization, using Palestinians as a steppingstone to greater dominance in the Jihadi world. Where next after Palestine?

Wolf359f

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121427697#Comment_121427697

Yes, apart from the 2 drones Germany leased from Israel been handed back to them, there's nothing in the article about military aid apart from medical aid.

brickster69

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121427721#Comment_121427721

First sentence

" Germany is in discussions to send lethal military aid to Israel to help it crack down on Hamas and deter an “apocalyptic” intervention by other hostile regional powers."

markodaly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121425568#Comment_121425568

Hilarious that you think the letter is

a) genuine

b) not propaganda

c) not written under duress

FFS, the state of that post.

Hamas the good guys all of a sudden.

Sure, Lord Haw-Haw had great things to say about the Nazi regime.

markodaly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121425864#Comment_121425864

That post, is another piece of evidence,

It's not evidence, its garbage propaganda, that you are falling for heads of heels.

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121427635#Comment_121427635

the future is anytime after (if) they release all hostages.

do you think Israel will succeed in destroying Hamas the day (if) they release the hostages?

amandstu

Watched the amazing (fly on the wall) BBC4 documentary Israel and the ARABS /part3 last night.

Wow!

I wonder was Arafat killed? He looked like shi in it.

Could it have even been the Russians?(quelle surprise if it was)

Tell me how

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121427775#Comment_121427775

The letter really touched a nerve with you guys.

Have you any evidence that the letter is not genuine, is propaganda, was written under duress? I'm sure given the hostage was released, they must have released a statement saying what you claim. Have you a link?

No one is saying Hamas are the good guys. That's the strawman the other posters tried to create and attack. Just that Israeli hostages seem to have been treated well while in captivity. Again, have you evidence to the contrary or are you just claiming so because you don't want to accept the fact.

Someone posted over the weekend that Hamas are the bad guys and that nothing and no one will make them change their mind in that respect. Which is fine, again, I'm not claiming they are the good guys.

But what all of you seem incapable of doing is accepting that Israel is a bad actor in this conversation. They have killed Palestinians at rate greater than 12:1 for every Israeli who has died, they have lied repeatedly with respect to their actions and the actions of civilians in Gaza, they have broken international law repeatedly, and they are actively carrying out a genocide. Too many on here refuse to acknowledge that fact but are instead steadfastly supporting their actions.

I'm commenting on the reality of the news that is emerging, you guys are stuck in a narrative from 7 weeks ago.

Sudden Valley

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121427810#Comment_121427810

I think they should negotiate to get the hostages back if the price is not too excessive. They have already freed some already this way so the process is working.

I don't think they will defeat terrorism by killing a bunch of civilians in Gaza. Whether the terrorists are hamas or called something different I don't think really matters.

markodaly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121425980#Comment_121425980

Its the mask slipping.

No question.

The poster is doing its level best to paint Hamas in the best possible light and the Israelis in the worst possible light.

The same Hamas who murdered families in their beds, burned people alive, tortured them and also attacked a rave for no reason other than to kill as many Jews as possible.

Tell me how

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121427809#Comment_121427809

You might have an argument if so much of Israels brutality in the early weeks after Oct 7th wasn't based on false stories as to what exactly had happened on Oct 7th.

And as I said in the last post, have you a link that this supposed letter is false or that it was retracted? Aside from the letter, we've seen hostages speaking as to being well treated and seeing them cordially saying goodbye to their captors.

Absolutely there's a propaganda angle to such images, but once the hostages are back in Israel, I haven't seen any change their stories. Why do you think Israel is said to be preventing them from speaking to the media?

Weepsie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121427529#Comment_121427529

There absolutely was 2 parts to your post. You even split it into 2 paragraphs. Go back and read it.

Why wouldn't they ask for all those imprisoned without cause be released for all the hostages. It shouldn't be one for one. It should be every single one of the Several thousand wrongly and illegaly imprisoned Palestinians for all of the hostages.

The prisoners that they do have cause to keep, have proof of crimes, have followed and given due process too, work away, but release those that they have effectively taken as hostage in retaliation since oct 7th and hundreds that have been locked up for years for now just cause

I can see why you thought I was replying to the whole post, but I wasn't, but I thought you'd be able follow along given I was explicitly taking about the prisoner/hostage exchange.

You can be offended or appalled but your choosing to be

Wolf359f

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121427734#Comment_121427734

That was 6 weeks ago, has there been any military aid given to Israel by Germany?

It's a lazy tweeter, tweeting a 6 week old article like it's breaking news.

I'd say most countries wouldn't feel compelled to donate arms to Israel so they can keep levelling Gaza and killing thousands of kids. Israel are way way past self defence, past revenge and on to just a massacre of a civilian population.

Weepsie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121427661#Comment_121427661

Well Israel has form for locking up Palestine residents for no reason beyond the whim of the arresting officer so yes, and it's in the thousands, so yes, I could well believe , they'd pluck some random folks off the street say some absolute bogus charge and imprison them.

Some they maybe lucky with, some they've just decided they don't like the look of

brickster69

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121427951#Comment_121427951

How do i know ? The article says " Germany is in discussions to send lethal military aid to Israel to help it crack down on Hamas and deter an “apocalyptic” intervention by other hostile regional powers."

So by that it means they are intending to do so. Scholtz has made his policy clear earlier this month where they stand in supporting a state that is and has for decades broke international law.

https://twitter.com/StandWithUs/status/1727273218271031802

Strazdas

One thing that has shocked me about the Israel supporters on social media is that they are all cheering on the destruction of Gaza and the death of its civilians. All they ever say is 'Hamas, Hamas, Hamas, October 7th, October 7th, October 7th'. They know full well the country is being destroyed and a genocide is underway and are thrilled it is happening.

nacho libre

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121427810#Comment_121427810

Given that Hamas have been decimated militarily in Northern Gaza, they will most likely be in no position to capture more Israeli hostages in the future as they will be essentially be making their final stand in Southern Gaza once the truce ends. Whether they will be completely destroyed is debatable. Israel might have to redefine what victory in that scenario . Perhaps we could see a deal done by whatever remains of the Hamas leadership in Gaza being exiled to Qatar. I could see Qatar pushing for a deal like this.

Hey boy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121428121#Comment_121428121

Nonsense post.

”all cheering”

”All they ever say is..”

”are thrilled…” etc

Life must be simple where you live. The situation is ever so slightly more nuanced than that.

brickster69

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121428121#Comment_121428121

A more concerning thing is leaders of certain states doing the same despite the vast majority of their citizens being totally sickened by what is going on as well as the majority of the worlds other governments. A few loons on the internet is no problem as long as they stay in the minority.

Hey boy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121428179#Comment_121428179

I said previously that I think it probably means destroy Hamas in Gaza followed by removal of whoever else Israel can get to in the upper levels of Hamas wherever they are in the world.

What concerns me, assuming Hamas in Gaza is destroyed, is the next stage for Gaza. Given this whole situation occurred so quickly I’m not sure how prepared anyone really is for that. I’m not really sure, for example, that the UN could cope.

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121428225#Comment_121428225

I think the aspect that shocks me is that they don't even deny that 12k+ civilians have been killed and that much of Gaza has been destroyed (meaning they have full knowledge of what has happened for the last seven weeks and completely approve).

Unfortunately, it seems this is pretty much the response of the Israeli public as well. There was a journalist from Haaretz on Drivetime on Friday saying Israeli TV news rarely even mentions the deaths and destruction in Gaza, but there is no indication their viewers would even be bothered if they did.

nacho libre

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121427661#Comment_121427661

Just who is being provoked here is open to question. Some might say the Palestinians in the West Bank living with daily intimidation and harassment are the ones being provoked. Many of these people being siezed may well not be entirely innocent as you say. However as you know from your extensive travels people generally don't tend to throw flowers and recite poetry at those who they feel are oppressing them. It is inevitable some will seek to resist through violence means. Indeed we saw the same in the 1940s with the Jewish terrorists groups Irgun and Hagannah when they targeted the British.

nacho libre

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121428227#Comment_121428227

The Hamas leadership in Qatar won't be touched. The Americans won't allow it. So It's hard to see how you truly defeat Hamas, if the the political leadership who fund the military wing are not targeted. I believe the only way to truly weaken Hamas's grip long term is to through prosperity in Gaza. Without it Hamas or some variant of it will likely rise up again. The best hope after the war is that the PA take over, but they are woefully corrupt which brings other problems with it.

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121427950#Comment_121427950

I'm neither offended not appalled, but your post read like they should take hostages again. If I picked it up wrong, then I'm wrong.

But the question remains, what is to stop them doing the same again , kidnapping and murdering Israelis in return for prisoner releases?

And an independent organisation needs to decide which prisoners are being held without due cause. Neither Hamas nor Israel should get to decide that.

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121428121#Comment_121428121

I have literally never seen anyone cheering on destruction in Gaza or the death of civilians. I dunno what kind of social media.you're on!

amandstu

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121428310#Comment_121428310

Given that Hamas and PA seem together to represent the vast majority of the Palestinian people ...

And given that Hamas seems to have crushed the opposing groupings in terms of support is there any alternative but to negotiate with whoever can be accepted by the Palestinian people as their representatives?

Is there any hope it could be any other than Hamas under another name?(or could Hamas' support evaporate when they no longer have the means to physically intimidate their political opponents?)

Are there any other political groups that Israel can negotiate with ?

Is there any plan at all in the Israeli heads as to what might follow what they see as a successful end to this campaign?

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121428467#Comment_121428467

Numerous times I've seen Israel supporters challenged on social media about the deaths of 12k civilians and the destruction of much of Gaza. Their reply is always 'Hamas' or 'October 7th' or 'Hamas started this war'. Never the slightest tinge of regret about civilian deaths or destruction of a country (and interestingly, no denial of the deaths of civilians and the place being destroyed).

markodaly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121427826#Comment_121427826

Have you any evidence that the letter is not genuine, is propaganda, was written under duress? I'm sure given the hostage was released, they must have released a statement saying what you claim. Have you a link?

Yea, some guy on Twitter who calls himself CensoredMan must be trusted.

You dont even know yourself if its genuine but you posted it anyway and took it as truth.

markodaly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121427844#Comment_121427844

You might have an argument if so much of Israels brutality in the early weeks after Oct 7th wasn't based on false stories as to what exactly had happened on Oct 7th.

Ah ok, sure what happened on October 7th wasn't as bad so.

Much like the Holocaust.

Only 6 million Jews were murdered, not 7 as originally thought.

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121428720#Comment_121428720

So none of this then actually,

the Israel supporters on social media is that they are all cheering on the destruction of Gaza and the death of its civilians. 

no one's cheering those things.

Of course there are no denials of civilian deaths, why do you expect anyone to lie? Everyone can see what is happening.

I can't imagine there are too many people in the world who enjoy wars, and the civilian deaths that comes with them. Unfortunately it happens in war. No one is cheering it, as far as I can see.

The point is Hamas did start this war, international humanitarian law now rules what can happen.

No cheering though

markodaly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121428121#Comment_121428121

They know full well the country is being destroyed and a genocide is underway and are thrilled it is happening.

A) A genocide is not happening in Gaza

B) Can you show us even one post where someone approves and is 'thrilled' civilians are getting killed in Gaza? Just the one?

suvigirl

Also, as an aside @Strazdas I noticed you referred to Palestinians as a minority somewhere else, there not. Israelis are the minority