Hamas strike on Israel - mod warning in OP updated 19/10/23

Igotadose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121441204#Comment_121441204

This really isn't that difficult to understand.

Ceasefire was in effect. It had a time limit. Hamas, instead of offering more hostages or some agreement-extending possibility, attacks.

Israel says fine, ceasefire over. And we are where we are. Tragic. So much loss of life.

Now, if the Palestinians would sue for peace, e.g., offer up Hamas and all the hostages, Israel would be forced to stop. Won't happen.

nacho libre

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121440005#Comment_121440005

The only opinion that matters to Israel is America's opinon. You know very well that if the investigators find against Israel, their opinion will be deemed insignificant and wholly biased. Israel will be shielded by America from any consequences. With this in mind , do you remember when the senior British civil servant from the MOD boarded a plane at Heathrow to warn an IDF general not to leave the plane because he would be arrested?

nacho libre

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121441222#Comment_121441222

The poster was giving misleading information , the ceasefire was violated by both sides.

Even if all the hostages were released the war won't end. Bibi has made that quite clear. His future political survival depends on seeing this through. He claims the goal is to completely destroy Hamas, yet has promised not to touch those who enable the Hamas military wing to function .

tayto lover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121440589#Comment_121440589

The death toll against women )4,000) and children (6,000) would not agree with your opinion.

tayto lover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121440980#Comment_121440980

Hamas are delighted. 32 people bombed to death thus morning. If a relative of every one of them joins Hamas to get back at Israel that's 32 new Hamas members. Their future, rather than them being destroyed, is actually secured.

Sudden Valley

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121441222#Comment_121441222

I dont think anyone could see a realistic peace deal involving Palestinians giving up Hamas, whatever the hell that means in practical terms. Only their senior leadership must be well known but I believe they are also the police and government workers in Gaza. I presume Hamas militant members dont have membership cards so even destroying Hamas totally seems like a pipe dream.

i just dont see how when ever the hostilities end in this phase of combat, either side can claim they have won.

Tell me how

Israel giving the 2 fingers to everyone.

https://twitter.com/SaulStaniforth/status/1730509612380467458?t=R9cNvXZazQMi3rGKXQpqfA&s=19

Canimagine the sh1t that would be written if Hamas kidnapped one person today?

Wolf359f

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121441222#Comment_121441222

Israel have said no quarter will be given, so even Hamas trying to surrender won't end the bloodshed. There's a reason why no quarter given is a war crime. It makes the other side fight to the bitter end as they see there is no alternative and reason to sue for peace.

fly_agaric

Read this the other day. Very grim predictions on what could happen next if Israel press on with this and ignore the US (which at the moment is confining itself to mildly chiding words from Blinken).

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67518819

Last week, leaflets dropped over the nearby city of Khan Yunis warned of impending airstrikes and told people to move west, towards the sea.

In a post on social media on Thursday, Avichay Adraee, the IDF's spokesman for the Arabic media, told Gazans al-Mawasi would provide "the appropriate conditions to protect your loved ones."

But how realistic is it to expect more than two million people to shelter there while the war rages nearby? And just how "appropriate" are conditions at al-Mawasi?

The map shows a patchwork of fields, greenhouses and scattered houses. Although it is hard to be certain, the area defined by Israel is about 2.5km (1.6 miles) wide, at its widest, and just over 4km (2.5 miles) long.

Dr Michael Milshtein, a former adviser on Palestinian affairs to Israel's Coordinator of Government Activities in the Territories (COGAT), calls it "a beautiful and fruitful place, but quite small". Aid agencies take a less generous view.

"It's a tiny piece of land," Juliette Touma, director of communications for Unrwa, says. "There's nothing there. It's just sand dunes and palm trees."

Any attempt to accommodate hundreds of thousands of displaced people, in an area seemingly lacking in essential infrastructure - there are no hospitals - will present the UN with a mammoth humanitarian challenge, including the setting up of emergency shelter, most likely tents.

....

Israeli officials say Hamas is to blame and seem unfazed by the dangers. Al-Mawasi, they say, is the one area Israeli forces have undertaken not to attack.

"It's going to be dire. But they'll live," says Lt Col Richard Hecht, an IDF spokesman.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121439070#Comment_121439070

https://www.firstpost.com/world/watch-hamas-shenanigans-smashed-teen-terrorist-freed-by-israel-wears-false-cast-on-hands-caught-lying-on-camera-13445422.html

It is quite telling that we have to go to India to find decent investigative journalism to expose the Hamas lies. Too many people in the West swallow whatever they say without question. This is a really good expose of that "kid" who had his arms broken.

Tell me how

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121441671#Comment_121441671

The article I posted literally countered the narrative within the one you posted.

But, when it comes to entities in the West swallowing what is said in relation to the narrative, I think the vast majority of people know the narrative that is pushed without question.

• Babies killed in Israel is barbaric and horrific and justifies a military response versus Children Killed in in Gaza is 'just what happens in war'.
• Israel Hostages versus Palestinian detainees
• Hamas terrorism versus IDF self defense
• Israel killing Palestinians during ceasefire is ignored versus Hamas breaking the ceasefire when they kill Israeli's
• Likud saying 'From the River to the sea' is fine versus Hamas saying 'From the River to the sea' is anti-Semitic
• Marches supporting Israel are against antisemtism versus marches supporting Hamas are Hate Marches
• 'Do you condemn Hamas?' 'Do you condemn Hamas?' 'Do you condemn Hamas?' 'Do you condemn Hamas?' 'Do you condemn Hamas?'

We've seen the way most of the politicians, government bodies and media outlets in the west have looked at what is happening and how they are reporting it.

Igotadose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121441423#Comment_121441423

Hamas are not all Palestinians. They're not all Gazans. They're a well financed terrorist organization of probably under 50000 that seemingly dictates everything to 2+ million people.

Here's the thing: If you start a war, and lose, you sue for peace. If Hamas are content to sacrifice Gazans, which they clearly are, then the Gazans have to take things into their own hands. Like, say "here's the tunnels we've seen used..." "that guy there, he's big in Hamas..." "instead of bombing, we'll open tunnels for you to invade"...

Wolf359f

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121442730#Comment_121442730

But why would Hamas sue for peace when Israel have declared no quarter will be given?

Israel have pretty much boxed Hamas into fighting till the last fighter.

Just who are the people in Gaza supposed to tell about the tunnels etc... phone the IDF hotline from your phone with no battery and no phone signal anyway. Do they try approach the IDF on the Frontline and hope they don't shoot first ask questions later? I'm sure the IDF wouldn't detain said person and interrogate them, think they are Hamas, illegally detain them in prison. The IDF would never do that right?

ceadaoin.

Hamas don't want peace. They are more than willing to sacrifice Gaza for their cause

https://inews.co.uk/news/world/hamas-miscalculation-7-october-destruction-gaza-price-paying-2787353

The carnage in Gaza is needed to “change the equation”, Khalil al-Hayya, a member of Hamas’s top leadership body, told The New York Times.

“I hope that the state of war with Israel will become permanent on all the borders, and that the Arab world will stand with us,” said the Hamas media adviser Taher El-Nounou.

Odhinn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121441671#Comment_121441671

Children grabbed by the IDF are beaten -

5

• During arrest, 42% of children suffered

injuries, including gunshot wounds

and broken bones. A range of other

injuries were reported, from shoulder

dislocation, to bruising, to suffocation.

• 65% of children were arrested during

the night, mostly between midnight and

dawn.

• The majority of children experienced

appalling levels of physical and emotional

abuse, including being beaten (86%),

being threatened with harm (70%), and

hit with sticks or guns (60%)

https://resourcecentre.savethechildren.net/pdf/INJUSTICE-Palestinian-childrens-experience-of-the-Israeli-military-detention-system-SC-July-2023.pdf/

riffmongous

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121440702#Comment_121440702

Jesus the current update, backed by video, is that the soldiers executed one of the guys who stopped the terrorist attack (misidentified him as a surrendering terrorist)

Sudden Valley

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121442730#Comment_121442730

The Gazans are between a rock and a hard place, between those who are willing to sacrifice their lives and those willing to kill them and their kids and others in their community in the thousands.

The Gazans will want revenge on the Israelis for these killings so are hardly likely to get rid of hamas, an organisation who will actually seek to get revenge.

The problem with your hypothesis is the Palestinians never think they have lost that is why they keep fighting.

Kermit.de.frog

The US is to issue visa bans on Israeli settlers involved in violence in what might the first public sign of building impatience. Issuing of the bans would start next week.

https://twitter.com/Reuters/status/1730638956155277367

https://twitter.com/Reuters/status/1730638956155277367

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121442393#Comment_121442393

And there was me thinking we had got past conflating Hamas jihadis and ordinary Palestinians

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121443475#Comment_121443475

They decapitated and mutilated civilians on October 7th, and not just Israelis or Jews. Abundant evidence of same on the thread.

People really need to stop comparing Hamas to the IRA. The SS are more their species. They are not just an illegal army. They are a terrorist death cult.

But sure you know one nice Palestinian therefore no Palestinians can be evil.

Not just Hamas. A mob assaulted one of the child hostages.

But sure you know a nice Palestinian so they must all be a great bunch of lads.

Self discrediting isnt it

Sir_Name

Interesting article from the New York Times, if the link doesn’t work (subscribers) you can read it from twitter.

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/30/world/middleeast/israel-hamas-attack-intelligence.html?smid=url-share

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121443475#Comment_121443475

The IRA and UVF were gentlemen in comparison to Hamas/ Israel. They have a death toll in a week that took Ireland 30 years to match. The scales are not comparable.

Aid workers are not targeted as they keep the money rolling in, and it would be terrible PR. Hamas may be evil, but they are not thick

In relation to mirderous intent -

We have the recent events of 7/10 where they murdered Jews with abandon.

Gays were lynched in Gaza as soon as Hamas took power.

I can offer you no evidence of direct Hamas murders on the wider world, as they have thankfully not emigrated greatly. I can however cite the actions of radical Islamists on Europe who will happily kill westerners. e.g. Charlie Hebdo. Bataclan Massacre. Manchester theatre bombings, and of course the World Trade Centre. I have no doubt that Hamas jihadis would not have a similar M.O..

Now if you are going to get picky and look specifically for throat slitting as a method of murder, you will be going straight to ignore - it was clearly a figure of speech to refer to murder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121443475#Comment_121443475

“UVF terrorist organisations did not just go around slitting civilians throats willy billy.”

You must have never heard about the “Shankill Butchers” then.

https://www.irishnews.com/news/northernirelandnews/2019/02/20/news/forty-years-on-from-sentencing-of-notorious-shankill-butchers-for-their-catalogue-of-horror--1555287/

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121443676#Comment_121443676

Lenny Murphy was an out of control psychotic lunatic who cared little if he was caught or not. He would have risen rapidly through the ranks of Hamas....

Tell me how

More evidence that Israel has no interest in peace.

https://twitter.com/SaulStaniforth/status/1730661413260001603?t=p_YyDPZywbj4sDazEB_PYw&s=19

Israel is a genocidal rogue state.

Tell me how

More than 1 journalist a day has been killed in the conflict by Israel.

There were videos last week of Palestinan journalists receding calls telling them the IDF knew where their houses were.

https://twitter.com/sahouraxo/status/1730598102967443715?t=Zbs7CAPDlYrxa_bW95HQWw&s=19

KilOit

It was very sad to see the Israeli who helped at the bus stop get executed by the IDF

weary1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121443862#Comment_121443862

Sad but very predictable, the Israeli guy, Yuval Doron Castleman, was kneeling with his hands up when the IDF riddled him.

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121443786#Comment_121443786

There is a strong suspicion that some journalists have been deliberately assassinated by the regime : the death toll of journalists has surely been way too high to be accidental (perhaps Israel attempting to control the media narrative in the region). By contrast, only ten journalists or photographers have been killed in the Russo-Ukrainian conflict in nearly two years of war.

jmreire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121442859#Comment_121442859

"The Arab world will stand with us" sure they will, they will do everything for you, except allow you to come to their Country's. Because every Country that accepted Palestinians, in the past, even Muslim Countries paid a very dear price for it.

ceadaoin.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121443770#Comment_121443770

Yet hamas are the ones who broke the ceasefire early by firing rockets into Israel arent they? If they wanted peace they could have just not done that? But they don't want peace, they say they don't. They said "the carnage in Gaza is needed". But yeah, it's all Israels fault 🙄

Easy to agree to things you know have no chance of happening

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121443968#Comment_121443968

"Perhaps he might be more suited to the IDF."

I doubt it. Murphy's fondness for using knives on his unfortunate victims would have ensured he would have passed Hamas' entrance test with flying colours.

Tell me how

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121444271#Comment_121444271

Yet hamas are the ones who broke the ceasefire early by firing rockets into Israel arent they? 

I'd say the families of the various people shot and killed by IDF soldiers during the ceasefire would beg to differ, wouldn't you? Some of these included children under the age of ten, and a boy outside an Israeli detention center having gone there to welcome a family member who was being released as part of the hostage swaps.

Or would you not think that the taking of 160 Palestinians by Israel during the ceasefire would have constituted breaking it no?

ceadaoin.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121444297#Comment_121444297

Were those actions against the terms of the ceasefire? If not then they didn't break it. Hamas killed people in Jerusalem and that also wasn't considered breaking it because it didn't apply there. Hamas fired the first rocket and therefore fighting resumed. This is after they violated some of the terms of the hostage release agreements also, and fired rockets just minutes into the start of the ceasefire too, which could have been enough for fighting to resume if Israel decided to do so, but they didnt. But again, yeah, all Israels fault 🙄

It's a fact that Hamas don't want a truce and they did their best to restart fighting, first by not sticking to the hostage release plan, or the terms, then by claiming an attack in jerusalem and in the end succeeded by firing rockets at israel. Again, they are more than willing to enthusiastically offer up the lives of their fellow Palestinians. No chance of peace while hamas are around.

nacho libre

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121444418#Comment_121444418

Once again both sides violated the truce.

Also Bibi was just as keen as Hamas to continue the war. Regev indirectly admitted it in an interview, and Bibi himself has stated it publicly that the war would start again in order to try and complete his goal. I get you are pro Israeli but let's not distort the facts of the situation because it suits your position.

brickster69

BBC report on the lad with broken hands

https://twitter.com/ShaykhSulaiman/status/1730866895539081471

brickster69

Former ICC Chief prosecutor

https://twitter.com/DrLoupis/status/1730714547143463345

Furze99

Back to murder & mayhem - I suppose it's what drives Israel.

Tell me how

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121444418#Comment_121444418

The act of shooting civilians by IDF soldiers in Gaza absolutely violated the terms of the ceasefire. Or if you think not, you should ask why would such a term not have been included. Who would have rejected it.

Ceasefire negotiators offered solution options to both sides in the early days of the war. Hamas accepted 3 of the options, Israel accepted none.

You're pushing a narrative that Hamas is the sole opposition to peace when Israel time and time again has rejected choosing that option and is responsible for the vast amount of deaths in the conflict. For the gazillionth time, I'm not saying Hamas are innocent, but they are at this point most influential in being used by Israel to justify the killing of what is now eight thousand children in less than 8 weeks. Eight thousand!!!

We've now seen in our own lifetimes how what happened in Nazi Germany happened. Millions of people who buy in to the narrative pushed by the oppressor to justify the oppression and butchering of an entire group of people. Each of us only know ourselves exactly our own position on this matter, and the justification for it. But as billions of people judged Nazi's and the people of Germany for the actions of the Nazi party during WW2, so too are billions of people judging those tacitly or outwardly encouraging Israel to do what it is doing. And that includes everyone from Israeli media, to Israeli's who are having watch parties cheering on the bombs hitting Gaza, to Piers Morgan, to EU and UK politicians, to Joe Biden and the rest of the craven political group in the US who has allowed itself to be co-opted by AIPAC and the likes.

Hey boy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121445270#Comment_121445270

Nice balanced comment there Furze. Fair play.

Strazdas

A well known Jewish lawyer in the UK makes the interesting point today that the British right wing press (Andrew Neil etc) claiming that the interests of Jewish people and Israel are the exact same thing and that anyone who criticises Israel is therefore anti-Semitic, is actually extremely dangerous stuff. It means thus that all Jewish people can be directly linked to the numerous war crimes of the regime and held responsible for them - leaving them wide open in fact to anti-Semitic attacks and criticism, rather than protecting them from it.

He points out too that many of these right wing British rags are traditionally no friends of Jewish people and are merely being highly opportunistic.

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121445498#Comment_121445498

Here's the red flags to begin with:

* regime

* numerous war crimes - accepted a statement of fact

And even if true - how does that 'directly link' someone to alleged war crimes? Someone can write guff like that but then not join the dots and hope people won't notice. Seems clever but doesn't stand up to any scrutiny.

I might share in interest in seeing X achieved, that doesn't mean if someone commits a crime to achieve it I am 'directly linked' to the crime. I have no hand or part in the crime. I might want to see X achieved but not by the same means.

A lawyer should know that would never stand up in court, but knows how to pull the wool over peoples eyes with a clever sounding argument.

Rezident

The Palestine protestors in Dublin today are shouting "From the river to the sea, Palestine will be free"

Now that we know that this basically means: 'kill the Jews', I wonder how so many in Ireland have become so radicalised to such hatred. No good will come of this.

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121445512#Comment_121445512

If Israel's actions in Gaza and the interests of all Jewish people are the exact same thing, then all Jewish people are responsible for everything that that has happened in Gaza since October 7th, correct?

That is the point he is making - and as a Jewish man, he is trying to disassociate himself from this very dangerous narrative.

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121445522#Comment_121445522

Nope. You just ignored all the points previously put to you and repeated his fallacy.

This is what I wrote:

I might share in interest in seeing X achieved, that doesn't mean if someone commits a crime to achieve it I am 'directly linked' to the crime. I have no hand or part in the crime. I might want to see X achieved but not by the same means.

Where is the connection between the IF... interests and THEN responsible. There isn't one. It isn't there. It isn't explained. There is zero foundation to the claim, it is incoherent.

It is argument by assertion, attempting a con job.

It doesn't exist. That lawyer can state it but with absolutely zero attempt to justify it, it is self discrediting.

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121445543#Comment_121445543

You admit then that the Israel and the IDF may be going against the interests of Jewish people by killing civilians in Gaza? Andrew Neil and the Daily Mail and the Daily Telegraph certainly aren't doing that - they say that anyone who criticises the actions of Israel in Gaza is doing so for anti-Semitic reasons.

NSAman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121445521#Comment_121445521

You criticise Russia for bombing and invading Ukraine.

are there any parallels in relation to Israel bombing Gaza? Yes I hate Hamas. What I don’t condone at all is the demolition of homes, as evidenced this morning on TV. Israel can claim that they are “targeting” Hamas, but I don’t think the killing is civilians back this up.

what is Israel end game?

cheese sandwich

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121445521#Comment_121445521

Are there more marches today supporting the child murderers and mass rapists of Hamas? How lovely

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121445554#Comment_121445554

Nope again.

Where is that admitted by me?

Find me that post.

Because otherwise it comes across as a prejudicial misreprsentation.

Therefore I am doubtful in what you claim is said by others in the media as accurate. I suspect it to be a lot more nuanced than that.

For sure some criticism of Israel is motivated by anti semitism. Some criticism of Isrsel is motivated by a different sort of anti Western hate eg the PBP types and Daly Wallace etc. That doesnt mean all criticism is but the above are significant factors.

Wolf359f

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121445521#Comment_121445521

“Between the sea and the Jordan there will only be Israeli sovereignty.”

Would you say that quote means 'kill the Palestinians'?