Hamas strike on Israel - mod warning in OP updated 19/10/23

Grayson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121451265#Comment_121451265

Well, if their only two options are dropping bombs on civilians or allowing unlimited terrorist attacks, then I guess it's dropping bombs on civilians.

Why is this always presented as a binary? It's either massive civilian deaths or Hamas has free rein?

BTW, Israel has also broken every single agreement it's made. And Hamas never made any agreement with Israel. So you'rte lumping every single Palestinian in with Hamas and you're ignoring the fact that Israel broke agreements.

brickster69

Reality setting in. The problem is Netanhayu and his mob of criminals have to accept to stop, lose power and probably end up in prison. Checkmate still !

https://twitter.com/RnaudBertrand/status/1731361257784328632

Rezident

The small Israeli army drone let loose inside an arched concrete corridor kept flying for several minutes, along a 300-metre tunnel large enough for a tall man to walk through unbowed.

To the left and right were rooms with air-conditioning units, functioning toilets and kitchens with running water as well as electrical and communication cables and a now-demolished blast-proof door that Hamas fighters could shoot through.

The tunnel that the IDF said they filmed last month below Gaza’s al-Shifa hospital was, by any measure, a substantial military capability. But it is also only a small part of Hamas’s vast subterranean domain that officials and analysts have said will define the strategic outcome of Israel’s campaign against the militant group.

It's not just tunnels, it's like an underground city. An Underworld. No wonder Gaza is so poor, its leaders have spent most of their GDP on an underground city for rockets and hostages! Probably have Shisha bars and brothels down there too. 'Sorry honey, I can't come home tonight, I have to work in the tunnels again!'.

gw80

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121451570#Comment_121451570

Sounds just like the horse **** they came up with when they were bombing the talaban in the torabora mountains,

Images of intricate high tech tunnel and cave systems that wouldn't look out of place in a james bond movie, turned out to be just some caves.

Tell me how

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121451570#Comment_121451570

This post is telling enough given it is posted without any link to a verifiable source or video to show what is being described.

But to write this in the middle of it, 'The tunnel that the IDF said they filmed last month' presumably with a straight face just underlines how little trust should be placed in it.

The IDF has time and time again showed itself to be completely incapable of telling the truth. And you, and others, want us to accept this as fact and you go on to make jokes about people visiting bars and brothels within them.

This type of BS as some sort of opposing narrative to the literal videos of Palestinian buildings being obliterated, people lying dead and broken in the street is so depressing. Like this is some sort of movie or online video game that can be discussed in a light hearted manner.

As the US secretary of Defense alluded to yesterday, all Israel is doing now is ensuring Hamas' continued existence. We know Israel want this, that's to be expected from a genocidal regime. But the depressing thing is that so many on here, on social media, in Europe, the US etc, continue to support Israels actions. This is how the Nazi's did what they did. With the tacit acceptance of too many, for too long.

brickster69

Israeli MP still going on about the dead baby being a doll and now more Hamas have been killed than civilians. How anyone still believes these clowns is beyond belief

https://twitter.com/SaulStaniforth/status/1731622210828226754

Odhinn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121451056#Comment_121451056

Thats because the IOF are dead set on vengeance, rather than justice. Given Netanyahus old testament call to arms, that should hardly be suprising.

Odhinn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121451249#Comment_121451249

A reputation deserved far beyond the current flare up. The US influence gives them the cloak of respectability.

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121452322#Comment_121452322

Certainly, they appear to be heading towards being on the wrong side of history in the court of international public opinion. When your support is coming mainly from a collection of right wing and far right cranks in the US and UK media, but not many others, you're in trouble.

Grayson

I don't know if anyone's already posted this, but it's an interesting article about how Israel selects targets in Gaza.

I saw it posted by Naomi Klein over the weekend.

https://www.972mag.com/mass-assassination-factory-israel-calculated-bombing-gaza/

tayto lover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121450381#Comment_121450381

Israel does not want a two state solution.

tayto lover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121450799#Comment_121450799

I think Israel is trying to provoke a war in the region so that they can get the US into action against Iran.

Odhinn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121452352#Comment_121452352

Israel now is where Apartheid South Africa used to be. Protected at the UN by a superpower veto. However, as the BDS against South Africa grew, that veto was harder and harder to justify domestically. Though it takes years, its entirely possible to make Israel 'persona non grata' internationally.

brickster69

The Dutch government up in court at the Hague this morning on charges of being complicit to human rights abuse. Verdict due in a couple of weeks.

https://twitter.com/SaulStaniforth/status/1731639085528232280

Odhinn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121452737#Comment_121452737

I used get various e-mails, (having freely subscribed to Haaretz newspaper), Most of it was standard advertising, charitys asking for donations in and around holy times - nothing odd. However there was a regular series of mails, asking me to contact my congressman (I'm not american) and lobby for "action" against Iran. That would have been a few years back. Change in Israeli law banned that type of advertising (charity, retail or iran) by email, so I don't get them anymore.

Tell me how

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121452737#Comment_121452737

I wouldn't think we're at that point yet and I don't believe US wants a war with Iran right now.

The memory of Afghanistan (the pointlessness of it all) is still fresh in the minds and conservative commentators and media spend this year and last talking about how they shouldn't be involved in supporting Ukraine so I'd say a fresh war is not part of their plan at the moment.

Biden has gotten what he wanted out of this conflict, US conservative sentiment is largely in favour of Israel and they approve his actions in supporting Israel as they have done. He's lost a lot of liberal minded people mind, but they're easier for him to get back on side rather than the conservatives near the fence who approve his behaviour in this regard.

Rezident

Hamas mass raped and gangraped women at that music festival. Before they murdered most of those young girls. How can anyone support Gaza while it is run by these monsters!?

What is the matter with you?

Rezident

That is one big difference between the Israelis and the Palestinians. At least the Israelis don't mass rape and gang rape a load of young girls before killing them while 'at war'. Guess that makes the Israelis the 'good guys' in this sick war.

We are really starting to see why Israel is so defensive with these maniacs next door. How does one negotiate with lunatics that want to mass rape (and then murder) your daughters? I'm afraid there is but one path.

conorhal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121452352#Comment_121452352

This is an example of your typical Western liberal mindset.

"As I drown in my own blood, wife raped and kids set on fire, while my enemies fulfil the genocide they have consistently promised.... at least, thank God, I'm not on the 'wrong side of history'!"

I'd take being condemned as 'falling on the wrong side of history' by a bunch of hipster students on an Irish college campus over the alternative.

ceadaoin.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121453798#Comment_121453798

Didn't happen according to some on here 🙄 It's coming out now that men were also raped during the attack. Maybe the deniers will take that more seriously since they obviously don't care that much when it happens to women

Odhinn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121453848#Comment_121453848

You'll find they take the same attitude with their secular neighbours in the West Bank. No amount of kowtowing seems to change their expansionist colonialist agenda.

SortingYouOut

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121454026#Comment_121454026

Almost two months now and still supporting Gaza equals supporting Hamas to some 🙄

Anyone who puts the civilians being bombed out of it and the Hamas scumbags in the same category are as dim as the afternoons here at the minute.

brickster69

Drone footage from Gaza, they must of got at least 50 Hamas from that carnage.

https://twitter.com/ManeL0987/status/1731710532464349520

combat14

proposals now being floated for future of gaza:

"John Bolton, the former Republican US national security adviser, has proposed to the UK’s foreign affairs select committee that the Gaza Strip be split into two territories, with Gaza north of the Wadi Gaza River administered by Israel and an area to the south run by Egypt.

Bolton added that he would abolish the UN relief works agency, UNRWA, which he said had “developed an institutional culture of sustaining the refugee status of Palestinians”.

His proposal would involve large numbers of Palestinians leaving Gaza permanently. Bolton said his it would mean Palestinians were no longer stuck in the eternal hell of Gaza, a place he described as a terrorist state.

Bolton said it was clear that the refugees from Gaza would not be able to be resettled in Israel, since that was not consistent with Israel’s security needs. He added that Israel had made it clear it was not even going to provide work visas. As a result, he said, they should be resettled in third countries.

“This is not forcible population removal but doing what we did after world war two – we find other countries that will accept refugees and give them asylum. They have to be put in places where they are part of a functioning economy. Otherwise they do not have the dignity of providing for themselves,” he said.

Bolton, who acted as national security adviser to Donald Trump, warned that if the current population was allowed to stay in Gaza they would be in an “Orwellian situation where there is no future and the Palestinian people will become victims once again”.

He described his plan as an interim solution and claimed it was legal since there was an unresolved mandate for Gaza dating to the League of Nations, and the previous responsibility of the British had not been clearly handed to anyone else.

Bolton’s plan is based on the presumption that Gaza and the West Bank will not form a state as part of a wider two-state solution. His proposal echoes proposals circulating in the Israeli government.

Washington has ruled out such a proposal but as Gaza becomes slowly uninhabitable due to Israeli bombardment, the US could reluctantly change its policy to seek homes for Palestinians away from Gaza." (The Gaudian)

brickster69

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121454213#Comment_121454213

Obvious since day 1 that aim, no doubt they will be allowed to return once things have calmed down and what about those in the West Bank and East Jerusalem ?

Odhinn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121454281#Comment_121454281

They'll continue under a regime inflicting slow drip ethnic cleansing.

Igotadose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121454213#Comment_121454213

Uhh, I think maybe that article came from newsnation, which I can't view from Ireland. It seems like a load of nonsense - who is John Bolton to be proposing anything, to anyone? He's a private citizen. Can private citizens make proposals to the UK government on International Relations? I don't see this article in the Guardian online anywhere.

Can you provide a link? This seems fairly 'crank' to me. That said, Bolton's always been a warmongering crank, wouldn't put anything past him.

brickster69

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121454353#Comment_121454353

You will be happy when Ireland takes in a 100K and loads of shellshocked angry Gazans move next door to you. I bet you soon change your tune then.

Igotadose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121454387#Comment_121454387

Was Bolton proposing anything as this article quoted? I think the article's a work of fiction.

Have you got a link to it?

Odhinn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121454213#Comment_121454213

You wouldn't happen to have a link for that, by any chance?

fly_agaric

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121454353#Comment_121454353

He's a nobody as regards US foreign policy now but it could be something close to what Israel is aiming for, given the people leading Israel and the Republicans (aren't latter all just "cranks" of one form or another at this point post Trump tbh?!) are peas in a pod with mostly similar world views.

The latter have always given Israel it's "head", so you can be sure almost whatever brutal crackpot ideas (if any) Israel's govt. float to get themselves out of this, they will say it is wonderful!

brickster69

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121454399#Comment_121454399

Have a look on the Guardian website, it will only take a minute or two on it.

I think you will find out a lot of things you think are fiction end up being correct soon enough.

jmreire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121448341#Comment_121448341

But the difference was that in Mosul, people had escape routes, they could and did leave, and I remember them arriving in Damascus. Palestinians do not have that option, because in previous wars etc., when the surrounding Countries took in hundreds of thousands of Palestinians, this act of kindness was repaid by the Palestinians trying to usurp the very Governments that had taken them in. So now, the attitude from the surrounding states is "We will help you with aid, cash, medicine, propaganda, we will organize protests worldwide in your support. No problem. But allow you across our borders??? Sorry, but No Thanks. But if on the outside chance, some Country would accept them, how many Palestinians would now be left in Gaza? Even more interesting question, how many Hamas would now be in Gaza without their human shields to protect them, and with the IDF not having to worry about collateral damage (so to speak) how much of Gaza would be left standing? Would there even be the proverbial stone upon a stone left? And for sure, the mysteries of the tunnels would be revealed.

riffmongous

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121454399#Comment_121454399

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121454427#Comment_121454427

It's in the livefeed, around 18:25

ceadaoin.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121454063#Comment_121454063

My post was about the rapes that took place and people denying that they happened. How does rape denial have anything to do with supporting Gaza? Are you trying to conflate the two? That would be weird.

Your post is completely unrelated to mine so not sure why you quoted me. I didnt say anything remotely like "supporting Gaza equals supporting hamas" so not sure why you brought it up in response to a post about rapes?

nacho libre

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121454353#Comment_121454353

I know its not fashionable to give Donald Trump any praise, but one good thing he did was ignore that war junkie. If Bolton had his way America would have gone to war with Iran.

Tell me how

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121454213#Comment_121454213

So genocide, but of the 'its for your own good' kind.

Tell me how

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121454782#Comment_121454782

No question.

From Bolton:

America has “misread” Iran’s involvement in the Israel-Gaza war and does not understand the danger the regime poses to the Middle East, a former US national security adviser has said.

Link

I'd take his word on what is good for the areas as much as I would listen to Daniel Kinahan talking about the benefits of inner city boxing clubs.

NSAman

John Bolton, is a war monger. He is totally irrelevant in todays world, why anyone would listen to this idiot I do not know.

It aches him that he is no longer in a position of authority (THANK GOD)

Take anything this man says with a grain of valium.

Oh if I could get a shears/trimmer and cut that rat off his face.

If he gets involved in anything to do with Israel/Palestine it will lead to war with other countries.

dmcdona

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121452413#Comment_121452413

"Power targets" - understand what this means and you'll understand where this is going.

dmcdona

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121453848#Comment_121453848

Myopic thinking there - "one big difference between...".

Israelis don't mass rape, but you're good with Israelis who burn Palestinian children alive in their homes in the West Bank?

And no, it was Hamas that carried out those appalling atrocities - not "Palestinians". Hamas also killed Palestinians in the Kibbutzim on 7th October.

Sick war - agreed. War always was, always will be.

Tell me how

For the people justifying the butchering of tens of thousands and the displacement of millions because of the crime of rape.

https://twitter.com/muhammadshehad2/status/1731785445585854588?t=fCuUblKzPaTjikYANJviyw&s=19

ceadaoin.

There are reports that senior hamas leader Nizar Awadallah has been killed

https://twitter.com/gaza_report/status/1731745846872395799

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121453848#Comment_121453848

I seem to recall them having a big party for the dozen or so Israelis who gang raped that British girl in Cyprus back a few years ago. She was forced to retract her statement, they were released and as soon as they got back videoed themselves on social media calling her a British slut and whore etc.

Tell me how

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121453848#Comment_121453848

This is from an Israeli Rabbi.

(Bold mine)

The rabbi gave a more shocking answer on the same site when asked if soldiers were permitted to rape women during war. Karim replied that, as part of maintaining fitness for the army and the soldiers' morale during fighting, it is permitted to "breach" the walls of modesty and "satisfy the evil inclination by lying with attractive Gentile women against their will, out of consideration for the difficulties faced by the soldiers and for overall success." 

Link

Is this going to be like the 'From the River to the Sea' phrase and when Palestinians use it it is deemed horrific antisemitism by Zionists who say it is calling for the end of Israel but when Israel uses it, it doesn't even bear mentioning by the same people.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121454276#Comment_121454276

Did you not hear that Israel are making great efforts to make sure that the Combatant:Civilian death ratio is as high as possible so that the number of dead civilians is kept to an absolute minimum .................. by categorizing all the dead toddlers as enemy combatants.

Richard Boyd Barrett now wants an 'intifada' against Israel. Is he not actually inciting violence against the Israeli state? Since he mentioned South Africa, Vietnam and Algeria, I can't think what else it would mean.

https://www.irishtimes.com/politics/2023/12/04/boyd-barrett-defends-labelling-israel-a-psychopath-state-as-tanaiste-accuses-td-of-spreading-hate/

tayto lover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121453848#Comment_121453848

Agree to a point except for the fact that it doesn't seem to be the maniacs who are dying. The amount of women and children would suggest that both sides have maniacs. 40% of the homes in Gaza destroyed and 6,000 children and 4.000 women blown apart with many missing under the rubble. Hamas are murdering **** and need to go but the way things are happening in Gaza everyone is in danger of death.

Tell me how

I'd be uncomfortable with this even as a concept given what Israel has been doing (and not just since Oct 7th).

https://twitter.com/ryangrim/status/1731712535160574029

But the detail is disturbing, particularly the line highlighted below.

In a country that supposedly demands free speech above all else, this is Orwellian.

What other country can play the religious victim card to absolve its genocidal acts?

Rashida Tlaib must feel very lonely, if not at risk, in such an environment.

SeanW

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121455721#Comment_121455721

Considering that Israel is the worlds only Jewish state, and that it houses a plurality of the worlds Jewish people, and that they're surrounded by people who want to drive the Jews into the sea ... yes, Anti-Zionism is at least a fellow traveller of Anti-Semitism.