Hamas strike on Israel - mod warning in OP updated 19/10/23

ceadaoin. · 05-12-2023 11:34pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121459852#Comment_121459852

No. The rape accounts appeared almost immediately. We all saw the bloodied and broken women pretty much in real time. Stop lying. It's because of posts like this, denying that this happened, that the push to get the stories out is happening.

Absolutely sickening stuff, but to be expected from Hamas sympathisers. And I'm not saying that just because you criticise Israel, you can do that without supporting Hamas. I'm saying it because you, and a couple of others on here, clearly are.

Madeoface · 05-12-2023 11:42pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121459171#Comment_121459171

It's disgusting. No question.

As disgusting as the rapes and the murder of babies that the IDF and Ariel Sharon oversaw during the 1982 massacre in Sabra and Chatila refugee camps where over 1,700 innocent Palestinian people were massacred during Israels illegal and devastating invasion of Lebanon.

Any human life is sacred and neither the right wing Zionist goons in charge of Israel nor the fundamentalist murderers in Hamas care a jot.

Neither learn from history or other conflicts.

It's deeply depressing, especially for the innocent. On both sides.

Strazdas · 05-12-2023 11:44pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121459903#Comment_121459903

Even if one accepts that the many rape accounts are all accurate, how in God's name would that justify the killing of thousands of innocent Gazan women and children in revenge?

This whole issue of the rapes on October 7th being plastered all over the western media whilst the regime is on a killing frenzy in Gaza at the moment stinks to high heaven. This has nothing to do with truth or justice - it's all about justifying the war crimes. Everyone from day one has conceded that October 7th was a horrible atrocity and was wrong. The point doesn't even need to be proven.

Donald Trump · 05-12-2023 11:54pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121459903#Comment_121459903

How many Irish children should Israelis be allowed to murder because of those rapes?

They were horrific and nobody would condone the atrocities of Oct 7th. But do give me a number.

SeanW · 06-12-2023 12:00am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121459967#Comment_121459967

Did Ireland attack Israel on the 7th of October? Or Gaza (of which Hamas is the government)?

Donald Trump · 06-12-2023 12:02am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121459978#Comment_121459978

Were all the evil Palestinian toddlers at the forefront of the incursion? Or were some of them more involved in the planning stage?

The newspapers are reporting that the attack was in the planning for years so probably started before some of them were born, but perhaps they all got involved in the later stages?

The reality is that the Palestinian toddler had as much to do with those acts as the Irish toddler in Mullingar. So I would see the justification for the Israeli murdering the Palestinian toddler as being equal to his justification for murdering the Irish one. (i.e. zero justification)

But if you are happy to give the Israeli a pass to murder the Palestinian toddler because of the atrocity that happened on 7th October, then - if you are consistent - you would equally have to give him a pass to murder the Irish one.

In reality, you know the latter is ridiculous. But for some reason, you can't see the former is equally so. Cognitive dissonance

nolivesmatter · 06-12-2023 1:44am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121459983#Comment_121459983

"The reality is that the Palestinian toddler had as much to do with those acts as the Irish toddler in Mullingar. So I would see the justification for the Israeli murdering the Palestinian toddler as being equal to his justification for murdering the Irish one. (i.e. zero justification)"

What a strange equivalence to make. You've removed all of the context of where the deaths are happening and why. Of course both toddlers are innocent. But the context matters.

Tell me how · 06-12-2023 2:52am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121459903#Comment_121459903

Israel soldiers are as capable as Hamas for inflicting rape on their victims. It is documented, and I posted here last night of a prominent Rabbi who said it was acceptable.

Given how the official Israeli story has shifted, changed, been retracted, downgraded since the start of this conflict, it is completely logical to question whatever narrative has been pushed on their extremely well polished PR supply chain. The while the first casualty of war is truth, man is capable of heinous things, on all sides. I don't get particularly aggrieved about the actions of individuals, on either side, for this reason. It happens, and in the greater scheme of things, while horrific for those who experience it, and whoever has to consider it, it is relatively inconsequential. There's evidence and claims of rape as a tool of war on both sides of this conflict. That is a fact.

But the sickening stuff around this conflict, and on this thread is to watch the excuses day after day after day for what Israel is doing. We've had flat out racism on this thread, we've had gleeful encouragement of Israel to 'finish the job' we've had complete ambivalence towards hostages captured by Israel while simultaneously justifying all their actions so as to rescue the hostages captured by Hamas we've had the victim blaming of a nation of children for the damage that Israel is inflicting on them. We've had the tried and trusted methods of holocaust denial and antisemitism accusations used continuously to stifle justified criticism of Israel. Much of the use of these tactics is particularly galling because it indicates that those who use them think Israel should be completely unanswerable to anyone. What a terrible idea.

And watching the western world support and justify the butchering of a nation of people is chilling in a whole new way beyond what I've seen over the last couple of decades in which I've been watching current affairs. There were the Rwanda and Kosovo instances of ethnic cleansing but the West weren't protagonists in that in the same way they are here.

Hamas are a terrorist organisation, those who took part in the attacks on Oct 7th and those who funded it, planned it should be all held accountable. But so too should every single warmonger on the side of Israel. There is only one side here watching whole generations being wiped out, one side being herded in to killing zones week after week, one side fighting without a route to safety, one side being offered a pitifully small amount of aid while the other is receiving billions in military equipment.

I agree that this wailing and gnashing of teeth about rape after all the other horrific tales which were later retracted or downgraded is just the latest tactic to distract from the killing of another 1000 people or whatever the last couple of days number is. The 'Hamas sympathizers' accusation for anyone horrified at the suffering of million is more of the same. Like, it's such an alien thought to some, they think anyone who considers Israel's actions in creating such a group must be evil themselves.

The masks have come off over the last couple of months, it is not a pleasant sight.

ceadaoin. · 06-12-2023 3:44am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121460239#Comment_121460239

"But, but, what about Israel?" isn't really an answer to probably hundreds of women being assaulted, raped, having their breasts removed, objects inserted into them, and pelvises broken in a targeted campaign.

"Wailing and gnashing of teeth about rape". You sound lovely tbh, and yes the masks have come off. People have been saying it happened from day one, but denialists like you wouldn't listen. Now that it's undeniable it's suddenly become just "propaganda" and their fault anyway. It's DARVO, straight from the abusers handbook. Not a good look.

Nothing was "downgraded". As has been explained so many times no one ever **** said exactly 40 babies had been beheaded. They said 40 babies were killed, some beheaded. But keep using the fact that Hamas only beheaded some babies as evidence that they are good guys ffs.

sock.rocker* · 06-12-2023 4:29am

Using Hamas members' deaths as evidence that killing thousands of children was worth it doesn't really work very well for saying Israel are the good guys either. It didn't work for the US in Afghanistan and Iraq, and it didn't work for them in Vietnam.

nacho libre · 06-12-2023 7:55am

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67617920

I see the American Government has started issuing Visa bans to settlers over this .

odyssey06 · 06-12-2023 8:17am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121460239#Comment_121460239

Skips over the obvious whataboutery - an obvious attempt to obscure the whether Hamas committed atrocities or not. Because that is the discussion point you have challenged. Whataboutery about other atrocities says nothing about the truth of what Hamas did.

You do not want the truth about Hamas atrocities to be discussed, do not want them to be true - because you think Israel will use it as propaganda.

But that is not the same thing as the fact they occurred.

Hostages were raped and beaten with electrical cables yet you tried to spin the pro Hamas fake news they were treated humanely. The most you were prepared to say is that some hostages were treated poorly.

Poorly? Being raped or tortured is being treated 'poorly' according to your posts on how hostages were treated.

So no, all the stories of rape and atrocity by Hamas to civilians have not been discredited - that is another pro Hamas canard you spin here.

Children and civilians were mutilated deliberately on October 7th.

Israel did not have warning of an attack on the music festival - that is a pro Hamas conspiracy theory you spread in your posts without any reputable source. Again to try to take blame away from the Hamas murderers and rapists.

The excuses are in your post to exonerate Hamas of blame for actual atrocities they inflicted on civilins and try to pin the blame for civilian deaths on Israel. Some of the deaths may have been friendly fire in the chaos but you focus on this chaos ignoring that Hamas are culpable for targeting civilians deliberately and killing hundreds. Friendly fire incidents happen in every conflict - attacks like October 7th do not.

Rewarding or appeasing Hamas for taking hostages would only encourage more such attacks.

The reason why posters accuse you of Hamas sympathies is because it is evident in such posts.

Danzy · 06-12-2023 8:27am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121459903#Comment_121459903

In normal circumstances Stazdas is probably against rape, but is clouded here by who it was done to and by whom.

pjohnson · 06-12-2023 8:27am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121460331#Comment_121460331

Expect the usual weak "I've condemned Hamas" responsr before whatabouting some Israel atrocity from a heavily biased twitter account.

Danzy · 06-12-2023 8:35am

https://twitter.com/MOSSADil/status/1732124602803909078

It really is that simple.

Doesn't matter that Bibi said that. Talking about Canaanites and the Ottomans or 47 etc.

Mass and exceptionally brutal rape is wrong. Hard to imagine that it is necessary to point that out to several posters here and I'm certain that they still won't give one shi7.

brickster69 · 06-12-2023 9:10am

Details of Netanhayu's meeting with released hostages released by Israel's largest paid newspaper

Source

https://www.ynet.co.il/news/article/hkp00rchsp

Thread in English

https://twitter.com/muhammadshehad2/status/1732180277684826320

Ulixes · 06-12-2023 9:11am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121458848#Comment_121458848

Yes, it increased massively after the First World War. The point is that there were only 300,000 or so people in the area in 1860 and that would probably have remained the case without the influx of Jews and Zionist money. I'm not making a value judgement, I'm just pointing out that it's yet another layer of complexity in a very complex and divided region.

Given the history of wars between Arab and Persian, Sunni and Shia, countries in the area I don't see the existence or otherwise of Israel as a root cause for the fact that there are a lot of conflicts in the region. I believe that's down to the collapse of the Ottoman Empire and the repression of what should have been the political evolution of the area by European Powers for their broader political and economic interests. Of course the previous repression of that evolution by the Ottomans can't be ignored either.

Ulixes · 06-12-2023 9:21am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121459936#Comment_121459936

The massacre in Sabra and Shatila was conducted by Christians. The Israelis actually took responsibility after Sean McBride, the then Assistant to the UN General Secretary, concluded that they as the occupying power were responsible. Of course nobody was actually punished beyond Ariel Sharon having to resign as defence minister.

It's actually a good example of how the cycle of violence in the region is perpetuated. The attacks were in revenge for an earlier Palestinian massacre and the Lebanese Christian leader of the attacks had recently had his family and fiancé murdered by Palestinian militants.

Ulixes · 06-12-2023 9:25am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121458781#Comment_121458781

Even if that's correct how does that negate my point?

It is often the case that people are killed by friendly fire. I've read that during the first Gulf War more UK soldiers were killed by American friendly fire than by the Iraqis. If you think that the IDF were shooting their own people in order to get at Hamas you're delusional.

Ulixes · 06-12-2023 9:26am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121459852#Comment_121459852

Are you saying that you don't believe that these crimes were actually committed?

Ash.J.Williams · 06-12-2023 9:30am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121459944#Comment_121459944

Easy

pjohnson · 06-12-2023 9:38am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121460457#Comment_121460457

Hes been peddling that line since the begining blaming Israel for the Oct 7th attack

Ulixes · 06-12-2023 10:03am

Can we all remember that despite the intensive attacks by the IDF and the very high civilian casualties in Gaza Hamas is still refusing to release the hostages they took. If they did so the Israelis would have little justification for continuing their attacks.

Can we also remember that Hamas are the government of Gaza and enjoy broad support from the population there.

I heard a Palestinian doctor on the radio this morning saying that the accusations of rape and abuse by Hamas during their attack was "black propaganda" from Israel. Even the cravenly pro-Palestinian leftie presenter on Moaning Ireland couldn't believe what she was hearing. I really don't see why we take the word of doctors, any doctors, above that of a plumber of baker. The job you choose to do doesn't make you more or less likely to tell the truth.

Danzy · 06-12-2023 10:05am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121460462#Comment_121460462

I think he knows they happened, disputes the scale and looks at it from the context of symbolic resistance against the women of Israel and a defiance its state power.

Context is everything it seems

There posts are truly fu78ing diabolical.

They probably in other circumstances would believe rape is wrong but so much of their core beliefs must be ditched in this.

Donald Trump · 06-12-2023 10:21am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121460202#Comment_121460202

Context me hole. Israel is sating its bloodlust. That is the only context. Plenty on here seem to think its ok to do it against Palestinian toddlers.

Your userrname is apt in the context

Tell me how · 06-12-2023 10:23am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121460257#Comment_121460257

I post enough on here for you to respond to what I say rather than what you want to pretend I say so if all of you guys could stop with the strawman nonsense it would be best.

And what about Israel is abso-fcuking-lutely the case when it is a two party conflict and genocide apologists want to paint one side as evil and the other as some sort of idle neighbour.

I have denied nothing, but I am not buying simple Israeli propaganda. It is a fact that the original comments in public and on here in the days immediately after oct 7th were about up to 40 babies and the manner in which they died. CNN issued a retraction for reporting on decapitated babies and said it had been misled by the Israel PM office. The death toll of 1400 was downgraded to 1200, again, that is a fact. Then it is a fact that not all of the 1200 were civilians. Then evidence that many may have died due to Israel's brute force response. So its a flat out lie to claim that nothing has been downgraded.

We've seen PM officials produce evidence of 'bomb making' instructions that Hamas had with them on Oct 7th which was a slide from a presentation available on line. We've had officials suggest a copy of mein kampf was found in a bombed childs bedroom (undamaged amid the destruction of course). We've seen them produce CGI videos of supposed multi-level facilities that they couldn't find in reality. We've seen them We've seen them ban hostages from talking to the media. What is all of this if not propaganda?

As I said in my post last night, one side is being obliterated in to history within this conflict. I have nothing but disgust for those who ignore that fact and instead build strawmen to justify their apathy to the suffering of millions.

Tell me how · 06-12-2023 10:33am

More reports on Israel awareness of what was going to happen on Oct 7th. Link

Top defense officials held urgent consultations the night before October 7 about a possible Hamas attack. But no one in the IDF notified the the Nova festival organizers or the party-goers, hundreds of whom were mown down – and for nine hours, no one came to save them

Sir_Name · 06-12-2023 10:34am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121460421#Comment_121460421

I disagree - the below table illustrated that. Avg world population increased approx 100% between 1800 and 1920, from roughly 990m to 2bln in 1930. the muslim population more than doubled in that time. and increased 30% again between that and 1931.

Strazdas · 06-12-2023 10:40am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121460462#Comment_121460462

No, I'm not saying that at all - but it would appear that the regime is using the rapes to justify the current war crimes in Gaza or alternatively to distract from them (the timing of all of these media reports of rapes on October 7th that have suddenly appeared since Sunday is curious - just at the moment when the regime is taking massive criticism in the western media for its current actions).

Tell me how · 06-12-2023 10:50am

Evidence here for people who both think that this conflict started on Oct 7th, and those who think sex crimes are solely inflicted on Israelis.

Just a couple of old IDF Soldiers talking, and laughing, about their own experiences and what they observed including using flame throwers on people, killing captured prisoners with a machine gun, killing people who surrendered and the rape of a child.

https://twitter.com/incontextmedia/status/1600493875746963457?t=6ZUzCeMojbml6n2yTTHADg&s=19

Tell me how · 06-12-2023 11:00am

From a US intelligence document in 2008.

For those who claim there was no occupation, here's the Israeli government controlling the Gaza economy to keep at subsistence level only.

nolivesmatter · 06-12-2023 11:11am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121460625#Comment_121460625

'Donald Trump' is offended by my username, grow up lad.

Context matters. It doesn't make what's happening good, it doesn't mean people shouldn't try to save the people being killed, but the equivalence you made was completely and utterly false.

blanch152 · 06-12-2023 11:21am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121459852#Comment_121459852

I think we have now seen it all, a new low has been reached. Effectively, this post is about rape denial and justifying it.

There is no doubt that the Hamas terrorists who took part in the October 7th massacre are savage beasts who hate women. That doesn't mean the description applies to all Palestinians, but in your embrace of Hamas propaganda you equate the two.

Sickening to read your propaganda.

Igotadose · 06-12-2023 11:27am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121460731#Comment_121460731

Must be true - it's on twitter
Tantura massacre - yet another (like deir yassem) that might not hold up to historical scrutiny.
Horrible if it happened as described, war sucks.

And, if you want to split hairs, this thread's about the Hamas strike on Israel, that's the conflict that started on Oct 7th.

The conflict between Israel and the Arab world started a long time before that, arguably when Zionism as a political force was impacting the area by encouraging settlement starting in the 19th century.

Tell me how · 06-12-2023 11:30am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121460853#Comment_121460853

And, if you want to split hairs, this thread's about the Hamas strike on Israel, that's the conflict that started on Oct 7th.

Says. it. all.

pjohnson · 06-12-2023 11:31am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121460853#Comment_121460853

He definitely cant be buying any Israel propaganda with the mountains of Hamas propaganda hes after splurging.

Ulixes · 06-12-2023 11:35am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121460669#Comment_121460669

And the Jewish population increased more than 10 fold during the same period. The amount of arable land in the region increased due to Jewish investment and half of that growth in Arab population was due to emigration into Palestine. I don't think that's disputed.

Anyway, it's a side issue.

StarryPlough01 · 06-12-2023 11:36am

Those are fair guidelines by Moderator TheValeyard. No NSFW footage - it could cause strife at work.

Elsewhere I just felt physically sick whie reading ‘duping delight’ posts about footage of deceased Palestinian children. Dismissing a video clip of a very young child (dec) as fake “Pallywood”. 😥 The hospitals don’t have medication, they don’t have water…. Ambulances are being targeted taking the critically injured from a bombardment to a hospital.

The Guardian

by Manisha Ganguly, Elena Morresi, Ashley Kirk, Bryony Moore and Harvey Symons

Fri 1 Dec 2023 06.00 GMT

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/dec/01/hospital-damage-in-gaza-during-israeli-offensive-a-visual-investigation

“An investigation has revealed the damage caused to hospitals, health facilities and ambulances in the northern Gaza Strip over 21 days in the course of the Israeli offensive against Hamas in Gaza.

“The Guardian collected and analysed more than 200 pieces of evidence including videos, photos, news footage and satellite imagery from between approximately 21 October and 11 November, and spoke to international humanitarian organisations, to investigate the damage caused to 10 of Gaza’s hospitals and health facilities. Of the 10, only two are functioning.

[...]

Al-Shifa hospital (Open above link to read)

3 November

“A convoy of ambulances was targeted by Israel outside the hospital, with one ambulance hit directly. Videos and photos of the aftermath show more than 10 injured people on the roadside.

“The IDF said the ambulance was being used by Hamas to transport its militants. A video of the inside of the ambulance shows a woman in a hospital gown lying wounded, with no weapons visible. Israel military officials have said Hamas would move its fighters unarmed in such instances.

Starry: I wanted to put up below link to: Mondoweiss.net (an independent website) who have published an article on CNN’s unverified report (see below). It was also carried by other syndicated media outlets including The Washington Post ..

‘CNN report claiming sexual violence on October 7 relied on non-credible witnesses, some with undisclosed ties to Israeli govt’

‘CNN’s Jake Tapper failed to adhere to professional and ethical journalism standards in a story claiming to offer proof of sexual violence by Palestinian fighters on October 7.’

December 1, 2023

https://mondoweiss.net/2023/12/cnn-report-claiming-sexual-violence-on-october-7-relied-on-non-credible-witnesses-some-with-undisclosed-ties-to-israeli-govt/

Starry: Nobody is denying heinous rape might have occurred in a war zone (Hamas' horrific attack on kibbutz October 7 - ‘Operation Al Aqsa Flood’). However, the Israeli police admit there is a lack of forensic evidence. The women weren’t questioned by trauma informed health agencies / professionals. Making assertions of serious crimes without providing verifiable evidence is generally considered to be irresponsible. Persons with integrity ensure that the information they share is accurate and make available supporting docs, etc. for public scrutiny…

Israeli’s indiscriminate slaughter (a high number being women and children) is disproportionate…. It’s been called ‘a textbook case of genocide’ by leading Jewish and Israeli scholars of the Holocaust and genocide studies.

Press Release

‘Genocide Scholars and 100 Palestinian and International Civil Society Organisations Call on Prosecutor Khan to Issue Arrest Warrants, Investigate Israeli Crimes and Intervene to Deter Incitement to Commit Genocide in Gaza’

20 October 2023

https://www.mezan.org/public/en/post/46295/Genocide-Scholars-and-100-Palestinian-and-International-Civil-Society-Organisations-Call-on-Prosecutor-Khan-to-Issue-Arrest-Warrants,-Investigate-Israeli-Crimes-and-Intervene-to-Deter-Incitement-to-Commit-Genocide-in-Gaza

Is what’s happening now a genocide?

https://time.com/6334409/is-whats-happening-gaza-genocide-experts/

Raz Segal, the program director of genocide studies at Stockton University, concretely says it is a “textbook case of genocide.” […]

[…]

“City University of New York professor Victoria Sanford compares what’s happening in Gaza to the killing or disappearance of more than 200,000 Mayans in Guatemala from 1960-1996, known as the Guatemalan genocide, which is the subject of her book Buried Secrets: Truth and Human Rights in Guatemala. Mayans and Palestinians have both been subject to genocidal acts, she implies. “When we match them to the lived experience of people, there are similar circumstances…if we look at contemporary conflicts like the Israeli invasion of Palestine.” […]

“A Textbook Case of Genocide”: Israeli Holocaust Scholar Raz Segal Decries Israel’s Assault on Gaza

October 16, 2023’

https://www.democracynow.org/2023/10/16/raz_segal_textbook_case_of_genocide

BreakThrough News:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dz_3BFPINnc&t=54s

^ ‘Israeli military official defends shooting live rounds at Palestinian children for throwing rocks’

nacho libre · 06-12-2023 11:38am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121460853#Comment_121460853

I find attempts to downplay any massacre distasteful in the extreme no matter which side is doing it. We have seen that on display by both sides. The Der Yassin and Shantilla massacres were disgusting just as the massacres on October 7th were. Some of the survivors from the October 7th massacre have already killed themselves and some understandably had a mental breakdown. There should be no equivocation on any of these atrocities, and using the excuse it's war is hypocritical and just not good enough

Ulixes · 06-12-2023 11:41am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121460731#Comment_121460731

Who are they and what's the source?

odyssey06 · 06-12-2023 11:41am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121460894#Comment_121460894

Anyone beyond this point denying that Hamas deliberately inflicted horrific sexual assault is engaged in atrocity denial, to the benefit of the cause of Hamas rapists. This is worse than victim blaming.

The BBC has seen and heard evidence of rape, sexual violence and mutilation of women during the 7 October Hamas attacks.

Video testimony of an eyewitness at the Nova music festival, shown to journalists by Israeli police, detailed the gang rape, mutilation and execution of one victim.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67629181

blue note · 06-12-2023 11:47am

I’m going to have to stop looking at / reading anything about this “war”. It’s just too upsetting and I can’t see any outcome where they can both live peacefully. Even before 7th October, if there was a healthy Palestine where the country was freely able to trade with the world, people were educated and living beyond basic existence, they’d have far more capability to attack Israel. They’d be better able to afford weapons, defend themselves. It’s simply not a scenario Israel can allow. Since Israels reaction to 7th October that hatred has probably increased immeasurably. They’ve killed people’s children, parents, grandparents, siblings, they’ve destroyed their homes, traumatised them for life. They’ve created countless people who will be willing to give their lives for revenge. Ignoring Palestine for a second, just from Israels point of view this will be the legacy of this conflict. For decades to come, there will be people who will choose to die if it means they can take an Israeli with them.

The events on October 7th are still probably the most sickening. The fact that those killings / rapes were done by hand as opposed to pressing a button to drop a bomb does make them seem worse. I can’t imagine hating a country so much that I’d be able to do anything like that to another human being, let alone a child. But I don’t understand how the Israelis are still pushing those buttons to drop those bombs, every day since. Surely it haunts them that they’re doing this to children and families. I don’t understand how they can look at those people and not think of their own children and families. I can’t stop thinking about it.

Ulixes · 06-12-2023 11:49am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121460761#Comment_121460761

What's the source for this?

Sudden Valley · 06-12-2023 11:56am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121460900#Comment_121460900

I have no problem with the crimes of hamas being revealed in full. I think anyone that tries to minimise their crimes is wrong, especially sexual assault. But like discussions of historical actions decades ago I do think all these discussions are started to deflect from the atrocities being carried out today and over the next few weeks.

StarryPlough01 · 06-12-2023 12:04pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121460907#Comment_121460907

I haven't read anyone denying that Hamas raped women - October 7 atrocities. It's highly possible, as we too sadly know, in a war zone. As the Israeli police said there is no forensic evidence. We are waiting for verified evidence from reliable sources, then academics and scholars can write their reports. Of course, I would like to see an independent investigation.

Donald Trump · 06-12-2023 12:12pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121460800#Comment_121460800

Who is offended by your username? You're not actually that special - regardless of your own self-opinion. Grow up lad.

Answer the question. How many Irish children would you allow an Israeli to murder over the coming month in order to satisfy their bloodlust. "In the context of October 7th" if it makes you happy?

Explain to me why a toddler in Gaza deserves to be bombed or maimed on an airstrike while sheltering in a UN school.

It's not a great sign on a person to be excusing genocide of kids because that person can waffle on about "context".

odyssey06 · 06-12-2023 12:13pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121460992#Comment_121460992

Oh sadly there have been insinuations along those lines in posts on this thread, perversely reaching for any explanation other than the obvious for the below:

Videos filmed by Hamas include footage of one woman, handcuffed and taken hostage with cuts to her arms and a large patch of blood staining the seat of her trousers. In others, women carried away by the fighters appear to be naked or semi-clothed. Multiple photographs from the sites after the attack show the bodies of women naked from the waist down, or with their underwear ripped to one side, legs splayed, with signs of trauma to their genitals and legs.

I think the below is sufficient for the purposes of discussion on this thread to accept as a fact that Hamas committed sexual atrocities (along with others) against defenceless civilians, and anyone denying that is an apologist for Hamas rapists.

The BBC has seen and heard evidence of rape, sexual violence and mutilation of women during the 7 October Hamas attacks.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67629181