Hamas strike on Israel - mod warning in OP updated 19/10/23

Tell me how

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121461929#Comment_121461929

This is exactly the point I have been trying to make time and time again on this thread.

Rape and killing and torture is horrific. No matter who does it. And the taking of hostages as well. But we've seen very concrete examples on here that suggests that some people view the lives of Palestinians as being vastly inferior in value than the lives of Israelis. This last 24 Hrs and the condemnation of acts of rape on Oct 7th while ignoring the evidence that Israel is capable and guilty of similar is a case in point.

We saw similar previously with posters saying that the only thing that was necessary for the conflict to end was for the release of the hostages held by Hamas. They refused to even acknowledge the tenfold numbers of Palestinians held without charge by Israel (not to mention the numbers held under charge).

And as I pointed out last night, only one side is being obliterated here and seeing their livelihoods, homes, family and even their own lives just disappearing in a cloud of rubble from Israeli bombs. I don't understand how the people who are outraged and accusing others of downplaying rape don't see their own hypocrisy in how they are ok with the suffering of Palestinians.

At least once daily I include in a post that I; 'the attacks of Oct 7th were horrific, that I condemn those involved and that everyone involved should be persecuted,' and yet am accused of being a Hamas terrorist sympathizer. And those accusing me of this watching Israel target and kill Palestinians consistently at a rate of 10:1 or greater, and these people never call for restraint.

If you hear about 110 people being killed, and target your anger only on those who killed ten of them, ignoring the deaths of the other 100, you should have a serious examination of your conscience in my view.

(And all of this outside of the subjugation and persecution and loss of land that Palestinians have to suffer as well as being targeted and killed).

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121462191#Comment_121462191

Again with the little added on non sequiturs.

The claim is that the chant is genocidal. It is an English language chant and so would be being heard in countries which likely aren't sending out volunteers to rape at will.

The only murdering of babies happening at the minute are the thousands and thousands being killed in the Gaza strip. Or as many of ye on here like to delude yourself "the imaginary ones that Hamas makes up, and even if they didn't sure they don't count anyway"

Tell me how

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121461933#Comment_121461933

You've never watched or read British media if you think it is overwhelmingly left wing. It is anything but. And there's a lot more people consuming that than there is watching US media. Which is almost exclusively Pro-Israel to the point.

brickster69

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121461900#Comment_121461900

Dozens of public on the record statements from Israels leaders stating the intent to commit genocide of the Palestinian people, also note that complicity in genocide is a crime also and can be punished. Anyone denying intent has been shown and has been carried out is totally delusional

https://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/documents/atrocity-crimes/Doc.1_Convention%20on%20the%20Prevention%20and%20Punishment%20of%20the%20Crime%20of%20Genocide.pdf

wandererz

This is some crazy stuff.

Straight from the BBC.

Israeli settler violence brings destruction and fear to West Bank as war rages

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-67617920

StarryPlough01

@Akrasia, ^^^ Brilliant post above (#23125 06-12-2023 10:21pm). Thank you.

WARNING: DISTRESSING CONTENT

Watch video here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oSocrm2q4zY

'Phosphorus used in Gaza, British-Palestinian doctor says | Israel-Hamas war’

MY NOTES:

Prof Ghassan Abu-Sittah said:

…. “During my time at Al Shifa hospital, it became apparent that 40-45% of all the wounded were going to be children. ….

Starry: White phosphorous:

“As time went (on), we saw the introduction of incendiary bombs where the patients would have over 40% of their total surface body area burnt with no other injury. And by the time Al Shifa collapsed there were over a hundred of these patients at Al Shifa hospital. And we started seeing phosphorous burns. ….

“…. As a chemical burn, white phosphorous burns right through to the inner core of the body and only stops when they have no exposure to oxygen. …

[Starry: ^ White phosphorous burns and goes right through you - it won’t stop burning. It was created to burn everything... animals, buildings... everything]

...

Prof Ghassan Abu-Sittah continues:

“My estimate is that there are between 700-900 children with amputations of limbs. On some of whom there are multiple amputations. …. [Scroll to: 5:45 / 22:36]

Al Oud Hospital where he moved.  On the third day he witnessed a phone call from the Israeli army to the director of the hospital.  The director was informed that unless he evacuates the hospital within two hours, the hospital was going to be targeted.  Of course that was not going to be possible.  …. There were too many patients that were too difficult to move.

‘Gaza’s Indonesian Hospital in ruins after Israeli raid, days-long siege’

‘Nurses recall horror of Israeli raid, interrogations, saying troops beat and humiliated them as they refused to leave patients behind.’

By Al Jazeera Staff

Published On 25 Nov 202325 Nov 2023

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/11/25/gazas-indonesian-hospital-in-ruins-after-israeli-raid-days-long-siege

“We had 25 people with broken pelvises who couldn’t be moved. They blew up this entrance, they shot the patients inside. They searched us one by one and scanned everyone’s faces. I told them I’m a nurse,” the male nurse from the emergency department told Al Jazeera.:

Prof Ghassan Abu-Sittah moved back to Al Shifa Hospital. I stopped the video around 7:00 / 22:36.

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121462217#Comment_121462217

Non sequitur? Ah you were the one who brought Padraig Pearse into it, and now clinging to some non logic about what language it is chanted in.

Seriously desperate stuff.

An obvious deflection and sign you've lost the argument.

With added whataboutery.

From the river to the sea is a genocidal chant, because if it was put into practice now it would mean genocide for Jews. Judenrein

As for your claims about 'deluding' - well it is obviously projection.

We saw on October 7th what fate would befall Jews left to the tender mercies of a Palestine free "from the River to the Sea" without the protection of the state of Israel. Rape, murder, mutilation, torture, without regard to age, gender, civilian or military.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121462243#Comment_121462243

You have no "argument" other than head-in-the-sand blindly parroting Zionist propaganda. God knows why. Perhaps you don't like Palestinians or Muslims and you are happy to see another "team" reduce their numbers by whatever means necessary (There are Christian Palestinians too btw)

You should try reading the post again. I don't know whether it is a lack of comprehension skills or just stubbornness and pretending you don't understand. You tried to claim that the chant (which is in English) is genocide because people chanting it sent others to rape and murder on 7th. I merely called out your lies. The people who sent out the fighters on 7th Oct are not in English speaking countries. Most are in Gaza. If there are people chanting it outside the GPO, then it isn't plausible that any of them sent out anyone else on 7th Oct to do anything other than maybe sending their kid out to get milk in Tesco.

The attempted gaslighting is mental. Those calling for freedom from oppression for Palestinians are declared to be genocide, and those calling for Israel not to be hitting UN schools full of kids with airstrikes are declared to be anti-semitic and rape deniers. It's mental.

People calling for the freedom of Palestine are no more genocidal than Patrick Pearse or anyone else calling for the freedom of Ireland. Them's the facts! If pointing that out exposes an uncomfortable hypocrisy for some, then so be it

StarryPlough01

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121462065#Comment_121462065

Consider how life looks to the plain-bellied sneetchers. I guess that children's story was too deep for you;

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121462261#Comment_121462261

They aren't just calling for the freedom of some notional Palestinian state but the destruction of the state of Israel. That means genocide to Jews. A preview of such a fate was given by Hamas on October 7th.

So does that mean you are here "blindly parroting Hamas propaganda".

"God knows why. Perhaps you don't like Jews and you are happy to see another "team" reduce their numbers by whatever means necessary."

The word phrasings above are taken directly from your post - shows how easy it is to make a prejudicial bad faith argument against another poster doesn't it?

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121462233#Comment_121462233

This academic explains how killing large numbers of civilians and terrorising the Palestinian population is an actual pre-planned military strategy by the IDF and has been for nearly two decades:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/dec/05/israel-disproportionate-force-tactic-infrastructure-economy-civilian-casualties

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121462287#Comment_121462287

Since October 7th, I'd say that Israel has killed more "Jews" than Hamas. If that is your concern

Tell me how

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121462243#Comment_121462243

From the river to the sea is a genocidal chant, because if it was put into practice now it would mean genocide for Jews. Judenrein

From NPR

In fact, a lot depends on context. The Likud Party of Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said in its original party platform in 1977 that "between the Sea and the Jordan there will only be Israeli sovereignty."

So the original Likud charter not only referred to the same geographical landmarks, but specifically said that there would be nothing else controlling the region only Israel.

Why is the phrase genocidal when used by Palestinians, but not an issue when coupled with text literally claiming domain over Palestinian areas when used by the party of the current PM of Israel?

Snooker Loopy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121461900#Comment_121461900

The far left is not equally dangerous to the far right. It isn't even remotely close. I'm not on the far left by the way.

What Hamas did on October 7th was an unequivocal evil.

What Israel has been doing since is an unequivocal evil.

This conflict didn't start on October 7th. It started in the 1940s.

As the time has passed since October 7th, what has become more and more and more apparent is that Israel depends on the international far right and its tactics for its propaganda.

We now have the absurd farce of the alliance of white supremacists and anti-Semites with Israel, and Israel openly embracing the narrative of Holocaust denial - the Holocaust of the Jewish people - in order to justify genocide against somebody else.

Murdering 1200 people is apparently now worse than the extermination of 6 million.

Israel is an integral part of the undermining of trust in politics and institutions and facts and context, both through its real world actions, and through its grotesque propaganda campaigns, where anybody who voices the mildest criticism of them is branded as an anti-Semite and piled on.

Israel says Hamas are worse than the Nazis.

Well, Israel are acting like the Nazis. Israel says such comparisons are offensive. Well, fcuk that. You don't get to call other people worse than the Nazis, and then act like Nazis yourselves and get to call that "offensive". Boo hoo.

Israel are acting like the Nazis. Truth is an absolute defence in a statement.

The Nazis believed they were the master race. Israel believes they are the chosen people. Both absurd ideas which are used to justify any barbarity.

Israel's genocide is offensive to basic humanity. It is untrammelled evil.

Danzy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121462233#Comment_121462233

When will this genocide start though?

Danzy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121462297#Comment_121462297

Are you becoming an avid fan of Israel then?

Hey boy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121462300#Comment_121462300

Perhaps one reason might be because Israel has the military might to achieve it but has chosen not to do so over many years unless attacked.

If the roles were reversed …

Ulixes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121462312#Comment_121462312

"The far left is not equally dangerous to the far right. It isn't even remotely close. I'm not on the far left by the way."

The tens of millions of people killed by Communist regimes in Russia, Cambodia, North Korea, China and Ukraine etc would suggest otherwise. Any fundamentalist belief system that seeks to impose those beliefs through violence and coercion is equally dangerous. In the last few hundred years those belief systems have included Islam, Hinduism, Christianity, National Socialism (right wing totalitarianism) and Communism (left wing totalitarianism). By any measure Communism wins the contest for the highest body count with somewhere between 100 and 150 million deaths caused in the last century.

The fundamentalists in Israel are indeed as bad as the fundamentalists in Gaza. Both believe that they have a mandate from heaven (from their respective makey-up invisible friends) to exterminate the other. Both of their holy books give licence to commit mass murder. The civil institutions in Israel and a slight minority of the electorate are the only thing holding back the nutters there. Unfortunately what is happening in Gaza is on a smaller scale to what has happened in Sudan, Yemen, Syria and Ethiopia in recent years so it's not unique to this conflict. That's not to say that there isn't a sizable minority in Israel who would like to see the ethnic cleansing of both Gaza and the West Bank. I don't think that's in dispute. I strongly suspect that Netanyahu is part of that group. I think he's a vile human being.

Ulixes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121462207#Comment_121462207

That doesn't make any sense.

Danzy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121462174#Comment_121462174

If Hamas give up all the hostages a ceasefire becomes only a matter of short time.

They will not allow that to happen.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121462582#Comment_121462582

Not at all. Being fans of "one side" because they murder those on the "other side" is the remit of the zionists and their slavish supporters only.

Most normal people are against killing regardless of the "side". People who complain about the ongoing murderous rampage are not complaining because they are against "your side" - they are just against the senseless murder, and it just so happens that it is "your side" who is doing it.

Ulixes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121462232#Comment_121462232

The BBC, Channel 4, the Guardian and the Financial Times are all left wing. I don't read the Tabloids but I presume that they are maintaining their usual right wing stance with a strong whiff of xenophobia, racism and imperialism.

CNN are left wing. Fox is a joke. I honestly thought it was a comedy skit show the first time I saw it. The New York Times is generally strongly left wing but would have strong pro-Jewish leanings.

The Irish media is very left wing.

Ulixes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121462233#Comment_121462233

I've said many times here that there are nutters in Israel and in the Israeli government who would happily commit genocide. My issue is that the IDF have the means and ability to do it but haven't (yet). Therefore if it is the policy of Israel why isn't it happening?

Ulixes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121462272#Comment_121462272

No, I know the story and understood it etc. I just don't see how it furthers your contention.

Igotadose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121462018#Comment_121462018

"The claim was the Israel was formed peacefully."

Hairsplitting. My claim was all countries have violent roots (or whatever the word was you used, I think 'formed' which is pretty vague.) However, Israel was founded by decree from the UN in 1948. Two things can be true, despite the misrepresentation. The US and Ireland were formed from violence, neither, however, had its statehood recognized by any international body, None existed at the time for the US, I forget what, if anything, the League of Nations would have said about Ireland in 1926, perhaps it was recognized.

HTH

Snooker Loopy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121462666#Comment_121462666

You appear to take your entire worldview from online right wing American sources.

Ulixes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121462720#Comment_121462720

 I forget what, if anything, the League of Nations would have said about Ireland in 1926, perhaps it was recognized.

We joined the League of Nations in 1923.

Ulixes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121462734#Comment_121462734

What leads you to form that opinion?

Is it my criticism of Israel and intense dislike of their Prime Minister?

Is it my opinion that what's going on in the West Bank is ethnic cleansing?

Is it my dislike of and contempt for religion?

Is it by opinion that the current military campaign by Israel in Gaza will damage Israel's long term security and weaken it politically?

Is it my dislike of Fox?

...or does stating the fact that the vile and evil ideology of Communism has killed well over 100,000,000 people and my view that Hamas are an evil terrorist organisation who would actually commit genocide in a heartbeat if they got the chance make me a supporter of online right wing American sources?

ceadaoin.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121462602#Comment_121462602

Why is it hard to understand? Some of the hamas terrorsits stopped to eat and drink from the fridges of those they'd just slaughtered, but raping? No, definitely no time for that 🙄

What a disgusting piece of rape denial and apology there. Bravo

40 beheaded babies wasn't a lie btw, because they never said that. They said 40 babies/children were found dead, some beheaded.this is true. I mean, how many times does this need saying before it's acknowledged?

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121462672#Comment_121462672

Yes, it doesn't make any sense. But that is what you said. I'm merely applying the same logic

You put forward that Padraig Pearse calling for Ireland to be free was not genocidal because he didn't live in a Sharia state. Surely it follows then that a person standing outside the GPO and calling for Palestine to be free is similarly not in a Sharia state and therefore similarly not genocidal? Or is the being in a Sharia state actually irrelevant? If so, then why did you try to use it?

I don't think either is genocidal. Both are merely expressions of desire that respective peoples are free from oppression.

Ulixes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121462809#Comment_121462809

Ah, okay, I get you now.

The phrase when used by Hamas is an expression of a desire to murder every Jew in Israel. Hamas are the government of Gaza. When people parrot the same phrase in the context of showing support for Gaza and it's government it is an expression of overt support for Hamas's genocidal objective.

Leaving spotty bellied imaginary creatures out of it entirely, do you understand that point? You may disagree with it but do you understand it and how the context in which the phrase is used matters?

riffmongous

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121462174#Comment_121462174

That "narrative" as you call it is the very real concern of one of the released hostages. You are just as bad as Netanyahu

"One woman, who said that she and her husband had been separated days before she was returned to Israel, challenged Netanyahu over reports that Israel is considering using seawater to flood the network of tunnels where Hamas leaders – and the remaining hostages – are believed to be sheltering.

“He was taken to the tunnels, and you talk about flooding the tunnels with seawater. You prioritise politics over the hostages,” the woman said, according to Haaretz."

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/dec/05/angry-relatives-of-hamas-captives-and-ex-hostages-confront-netanyahu

brickster69

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121462580#Comment_121462580

If intent to commit genocide is a form of actual genocide then it has already started. If those intentions are being implemented then it is happening now also.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121462804#Comment_121462804

The world is sick when you have people who respond to a statement like:

All efforts needs to be put into stopping the Israeli's from tearing limbs off children, crushing children to death with concrete slabs and beheading children with their bombs.

with the retort:

What a disgusting piece of rape denial and apology there. Bravo

It is mental that we cannot criticize the systematic murder and destruction of a captive population by another state without that being equated with being a rape denier. Zionist 101 playbook. But, on the positive side, at least they appear to have moved on from the default response of "anti semite" or "holocaust denier"

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121462858#Comment_121462858

I am sure that extremists such as Hamas use it to mean they will kill all Israelis. But I would have to think that those are a minority - at least on a global scale.

I think the Palestinians should be free. I don't think that Israelis should have to die for that to be achieved though.

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121462878#Comment_121462878

If you are determined to find sickness you will find it easily. You could go back and read what they actually wrote. They said a lot more than that despite your cherry picking attempt at misrepresentation.

ceadaoin.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121462878#Comment_121462878

Nope. The retort you have an issue with was in response to the following part of the post:

"I find the idea of Hamas fighting Israeli soldiers with guns etc - 400 soldiers killed - in a hostile environment over a short period and then sneaking off for a quick rape hard to understand. I guess details would help. How many women were raped and by how many men? Is it possible for example there were 10 or 20 rapists and the rest were non rapist soldiers?

Is it possible that it is a complete lie like the 40 beheaded babies?

It's really disturbing to me to read of the rape stories in such graphic detail you posted however, those things are claimed to have happened, allegedly took place on October 7th, in the past. Past events have already occurred and cannot unhappen."

That is blatant rape denial and apology. Hope that helps

nolivesmatter

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121462878#Comment_121462878

That is such blatantly disingenuous misrepresentation of what someone said. The "What a disgusting piece of rape denial and apology there. Bravo" was in response to this:

"I find the idea of Hamas fighting Israeli soldiers with guns etc - 400 soldiers killed - in a hostile environment over a short period and then sneaking off for a quick rape hard to understand. I guess details would help. How many women were raped and by how many men? Is it possible for example there were 10 or 20 rapists and the rest were non rapist soldiers?"

You really have no business pulling **** like that.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121462903#Comment_121462903

Your priority appears to be deflecting towards atrocities that happened 8 weeks ago.

I am not minimizing those atrocities, however my priority would be in stopping the ones that will happen tonight, tomorrow, then next day, and the following day and so on. Those can be stopped. One less missile fired at a school. One less airstrike on a refugee camp market tomorrow and there will be dozens of people who will get to live.

Go back to your Oct 7th issues when the killing has stopped. But by continually bringing it up as the main item of contention currently, you merely come across as justifying, or deflecting from, ongoing bloodlust retaliation against innocent civilians. With the only conclusion being that you don't want that to stop

Snooker Loopy

Mark Regev’s interview on RTE Drivetime on Monday was Nazi Germany level propaganda. From Sarah McInerney’s voice throughout the interview it was clear she was fully aware she was talking to a monster and was personally reviled by Regev, and who could blame her.

Regev: “We are doing Palestinians in Gaza a favour.”

---

Sarah McInerney: “You’ve locked them in an area where they can’t get out, you’ve denied them of food, water, shelter, you’ve bombed their hospitals, you’ve destroyed over 50% of their homes, you’ve killed their family members, you’ve killed their children. I don’t understand how you genuinely believe the people of Gaza would be grateful to Israel for what you’re doing.”

Regev: “100 per cent, I have no doubt.”

https://www.rte.ie/radio/radio1/clips/22329167/ 1

nolivesmatter

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121462951#Comment_121462951

Is that what you were doing? Looked to me like you were just in here ranting and misrepresenting people views in the most bad faith ways. By all means if you were "trying to stop the trapped men, women and kids being picked off with airstrikes and other heavy munitions." then get back to it.

ceadaoin.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121462951#Comment_121462951

I'm not shouting anyone down? Just pointing out rape apologists and those who misrepresent that as something else. Plus, I don't think posts on a pretty obscure Irish message board have the power to stop or allow anything but carry on...

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121462949#Comment_121462949

They're losing the information war though (and losing it badly). They were heavily reliant in the past on western media towing the Zionist line and refusing to criticise Israeli military action. Social media has completely upended everything and people can see the horrific images coming out of Gaza every day. If the current conflict is also a PR battle, it has turned into a calamity for the regime.

Ulixes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121462846#Comment_121462846

"The reason I said you appear to take your worldview entirely from right wing American sources is you spout the exact inane cliches preached by online right wing American sources."

You'll have to enlighten me on that one.

"If want to go down the stupid road you appear to want to go down, capitalism has killed a hell of a lot more than 100 million people. Capitalism killed a million people in this country alone in four years."

Nonsense. That was colonialism and it was almost 200 years ago. Capitalism isn't an ideology, it's an economic model. Communism is a social and political ideology. The two aren't comparable. The murders and famines caused by Communism in the last century are well documented.

"Nobody with a functioning brain cell considers the likes of Richard Boyd Barrett or Paul Murphy or Gino Kenny to present 1% of the threat of the far right pose both in this country or internationally."

Paul Murphy is a self declared Trotskyite and describes himself as far left. Richard Boyd Barrett wants to remove the right to private ownership of property. In order for their ideology to be imposed there would have to be massive restrictions on person freedoms and civil liberties. It would cause economic collapse and starvation, just as it has in every other country it's been tried in. So yes, that's dangerous, to say the least. Any system of government which seeks to impose an ideology that doesn't put the rights and freedoms of the individual at its core is dangerous. Both the far left and the far right aare equally dangerous.

"Nobody outside of a few loonies wants communism ever again."

I agree. thankfully. Just like the far right nutters.

"Whereas far right nationalism - fascism in other words - is a deeply seductive ideology for hundreds of millions worldwide, maybe into the billions."

The failure of the centre (where I am) is very disturbing and has allowed the far left and far right to grow. The failure of the employees of the State to carry out their duty to provide public services in a manner which is efficient and value for money is at the heart of that.

"The world's most influential information entity is in the hands of a fascist anti-Semite, who is an ally of Israel, of Russia, and of the American right wing."

Jasus, who's that?

"The logical endpoint of the far right's worldview is genocide."

The logical endpoint of any form of totalitarianism is genocide.

"That's what we're seeing right now in Gaza. Genocide is determined by intent, and Israel has displayed more than enough intent, shouted more than enough dehumanisation of Palestinians from the rooftops, and wreaked more than enough indiscriminate terror, to class this as genocide."

If all it required was intent then the IRA were guilty of it (Brit's out!) and Hamas are certainly guilty of it. Israel has the ability to commit genocide. Hamas does not. That matters. I don't see Israel doing anything of the sort. Ethnic cleansing, now that's a different matter...

Ulixes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121462898#Comment_121462898

On that we agree.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121463021#Comment_121463021

I also don't think they need to die for it either. It is not a choice between dead Israelis vs. unfree Palestinians

Ulixes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121463032#Comment_121463032

On that we also agree. My issue with this discussion is the careless use of language, the hyperbole and the uninformed historical commentary which places so much of the root cause for this conflict on Zionism when the constructive engagement of neighbouring States over the last 30 years would have easily solved this problem.

I have no issue with criticising the governments of Israel or criticising Hamas, the government of Gaza. Both are deserving of contempt and both are serving the interests of their people very badly. Peace will require the removal of both governments from power as well as the engagement of those neighbouring States who have contributed so significantly to the current problem.

I find the degree to which people are perturbed by this conflict strange and don't understand why they seem to think it is an outlier. It isn't.

riffmongous

Has there been any other country so blatantly committing ethnic cleansing, who's been so unequivocally supported by the West since the Cold War ended?

"An Israeli activist who was severely beaten, allegedly by extremist settlers, while helping protect a rural Palestinian community in the northern Jordan Valley has said he feared he was going to be beaten to death during the incident..

..These attacks, which have been especially severe in the northern Jordan Valley and the South Hebron Hills region, have led more than 1,000 Palestinians from 15 rural communities to abandon their homes, according to the UN’s Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs."

"Israeli authorities have approved the construction of more than 1,700 new homes, a non-governmental organisation said today, a move constituting the expansion of settlements in occupied east Jerusalem.

Half the "new neighbourhood" comprising 1,738 housing units will be in the city's annexed east, the Israeli NGO Peace Now said.

"If it weren't for the war (between Israel and Hamas), there would be a lot of noise. It's a highly problematic project for the continuity of a Palestinian state between the southern West Bank and east Jerusalem," Peace Now's Hagit Ofran said."

https://www.timesofisrael.com/activist-assaulted-protecting-palestinian-herders-says-he-feared-for-his-life/

https://www.rte.ie/news/middle-east/2023/1206/1420406-israel-gaza/

SeanW

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121459983#Comment_121459983

Hamas/Gaza attacked Israel. Not Ireland. Gaza/Hamas are thus belligerents in the war. Ireland is not. That's the difference. Maybe those Gaza children should take up their plight with their plight with Hamas.

tayto lover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121460579#Comment_121460579

Another new low.

An attempt to blacken doctors and cast doubt on the last profession to leave a hospital or their patients even under an intense and unlawful IDF attack.