Hamas strike on Israel - mod warning in OP updated 19/10/23

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121217055#Comment_121217055

They may not kill the remaining hostages as they may be more valuable as human shields or to be traded for prisoners held in Israel.

They have already enough scenes of terror and death for their blood thirsty propaganda.

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121217054#Comment_121217054

Re opened for humanitarian aid later today apparently.

Nothing to suggest it won't be hit again.

Why not simply make Gaza a province of Egypt, fully integrated, with all the rights and responsibilities of Egyptian citizenship?

What's in that for Egypt apart from a very expensive messy problem?

Igotadose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121217059#Comment_121217059

I think that's just a matter of time.

Igotadose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121217051#Comment_121217051

No; Egypt doesn't want Gaza. From 1948 until 1967 Egypt ran Gaza. Once Hamas took over, Egypt put up a border and only allows people to cross. I think if Egypt would take over Gaza and be responsible for its citizens, Israel would gladly cede to to Egypt. But, Egypt doesn't want anything to do with Hamas, either.

Ash.J.Williams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121217017#Comment_121217017

I'm sure I read somewhere today that hamas objectives have been met and they are ready to talk 😀😀😀

Damien360

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121217055#Comment_121217055

I have an acquaintance on Facebook who is very pro Hamas and is originally from somewhere out that direction. He used to live here, and train here (how I met him) and now lives in Italy so you would think he has some western values in him by now. Nope.

His profile picture now has a man on a parachute coming into Jerusalem and he is over the moon about what happened. That’s the big plan.

Victim blaming is huge for him and he has his supporters. The Rave was referenced and he felt what did they expect organising a peace rave, half naked (his words) in the desert at the beginning of a war (his words). As far as he is concerned, Hamas did no wrong and all the Zionists needed killing. He felt it’s wonderful that Hamas took more territory in one night than Ukraine managed in its war, laughing about it. This is just beginning and they truly don’t care about human life.

ZeroThreat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121217118#Comment_121217118

Similar to how many south of the border wouldn't touch the terrorist cesspit of N. Ireland and all its economic/social problems with a bargepole.

wandererz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121217144#Comment_121217144

This!!

Exactly why I lost all faith in Islamists.

It's totally an "us against them" mentality.

Hence the reason there are so many people causing uncalled for trouble in western cities across the globe.

Movementarian

This is true but you also have to factor in that Gaza is basically all civilian areas its not exactly like there's any 'military' areas.

In as much as you obviously can condemn Hamas for their choice of the option to harm civilians you can also apply the same to Israel in that they have the choice also.

There is the more difficult and potentially costly option for them to insert ground troops to target Hamas and limit civilian casualties that way given they control all routes into Gaza. But they choose to use airstrikes that they know will result in civilian casualties.

In my opinion both choices made by Hamas and Israel are morally wrong and to be condemned.

Danzy

Police in Australia looking into chants of gas the Jews, same as the Guards should be looking into the desecration of flowers etc for the victims of Saturday

Gatling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121217194#Comment_121217194

Inserting troops will bring casualties there is no way to completely avoid it ,

ZeroThreat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121217198#Comment_121217198

The guards here investigate public anti-semetic acts? Weill they ****!

They'd be far more eager to charge someone for accidentally using the wrong pronoun.

🤣

Snooker Loopy

There is an intense dishonesty on the part of the most vocal cheerleaders for each "side" here and in wider public discourse. Neither can admit or will admit the utterly rotten bloodlust which coarses through their "side". To do so is considered an act of unforgivable "disloyalty". No real truth or light can emerge from such an environment.

But any objective reading will say there is a festering historical and contemporary sore here where one "side" has and continues to suffer more than the other. The other "side" uses the great historical outrage that was perpetrated against it as justification for the oppression of an other. That cannot be right.

Oscar_Madison

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121217231#Comment_121217231

I’m not taking “sides” and I’m ignoring people who do simply because it will just be arguments going around in circles.

For me, the frightening part is the language and rhetoric of both sides- Hamas appears to be as evil as ISIS - Israel is obviously going to now attack a small area with a lot of people and kill many of them. Essentially history has brought us to this place - even if Israel defeat Hamas, what then? There’s another terrorist organisation in the wings somewhere. And so it continues- I don’t have answers- I can appreciate how both sides have come to this moment but we know the only way forward in the long run is the difficult path of peace talks .

RoyalCelt

https://twitter.com/region776/status/1711325564664258966?t=mZkW7im7zjAwpgUOzevd3w&s=19

https://twitter.com/manniefabian/status/1711658343780032565?t=bICZbnCVCpvd0bOI8I4Ucg&s=19

How many jdams does Israel have? Because currently 1 JDAM = 1 destroy apartment block in Gaza. It's basically a fastrack to levelling the place. It's kinda crazy to think Israel can do this when trump isn't even the president.

Gatling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121217272#Comment_121217272

I believe that they have over 20,000 of them and the kits to convert other bombs to jdams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121217231#Comment_121217231

There's something very distinct about this conflict, though.

There seems to be an obsessional focus on Palestinians as victims and Israel as the evil aggressor.

But why don't we see the same reaction against China, which has effectively imprisoned 1 million Muslims.

The Chinese government has imprisoned more than one million people since 2017 and subjected those not detained to intense surveillance, religious restrictions, forced labor, and forced sterilizations.

Where are the marches against China? Where is the intense hatred of China? Why is China treated very differently to Israel?

The only reason I can come to is that Israel is a Jewish state, and it's the religious dimension, and anti-Semitism itself, that largely fuels the hatred far more than otherwise would be the case. Hamas itself declare that the entire land of Palestine must be cleared of Jews; an openly genocidal statement.

Francis McM

The Gaza Strip is 41 km (25 mi) long, from 6 to 12 km (3.7 to 7.5 mi) wide, and has a total area of only 365 km2.

There used to be only tens of thousands of Muslims there, now there are 2 million - and growing rapidly.

Pity they could not settle in the huge huge surrounding counties of Egypt, Saudi Arabia etc - except the rapidly growing populations of those countries do not want them either. I wonder why.

 

ZeroThreat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121217272#Comment_121217272

With the Democrats it seems be me the party elite are the ones most pro-Israel, while with the republicans the politicians are mainly led in this regard by the opinions of their evangelical grass roots voters.

tesla_newbie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121216547#Comment_121216547

John mcguirk has more in common with the average Irish person than Paul Murphy, McGuirk is a centrist, it’s just centre right views are so rare in Ireland these days in public commentary

Longing

Huge Israel military build up this morning. Some reporters from different news agencies over twenty years covering the middle east have never saw such a force build up. For the ordinary people in Gaza seeing these images have to be terrifying. 1500 Hamas/Isis fighters have been found on Israel territory.

wandererz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121217290#Comment_121217290

Perhaps it's due to the nature of it.

The Palestinians have a voice. They have people who emigrated across the globe as we can see from the protest videos and news reports. They have gotten the liberal left on their side over many years.

The Uighers however don't have a voice. They are suppressed more forcefully and their friends & families are threatened if they speak out.

On another note, why haven't any of the other Islamic countries raised their plight as a matter of concern? They are Muslim's after all.

Large bottle small glass

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121205507#Comment_121205507

My brother spent two 6 month tours in Bagram air base, and they had a miniature version of Iron Dome.

For the first few days he was jumpy (he was a civilian so no military experience) when he heard mortars but he just got used to them being shot down pretty quickly.

On the conflict both sets of people are being let down by their leaders; the extremism on both sides feed each other and make any type of dialogue more and more unlikely. Hamas will be empowered the more vicious the treatment by Israel and vice versa.

There isn't enough land to go round is the main problem. Outside of sub Saharan Africa Israel is unique (especially among western nations) in that it's population is growing, circa 3 children per adult female. Add that to arriving Jews and the need for land and housing is only going to grow.

The empowerment of the far right and their view that this is "their" land is a substantial driver.

This will only get worse with potential to grow quickly into a wider conflict.

Western leaders should as much as possible seek to restrain Israel's response if only out of self interest. The winners in an escalation are Iran, Russia and China as they will thrive in the chaos and distraction.

Obama, Biden, Sunaik etc haven't done that to date.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121217312#Comment_121217312

Which, if true, is a significant number.

Reports estimate that Hamas has a membership of 20,000 - 25,000 fighters.

tesla_newbie

Israel is an extremely paranoid state when it comes to national security, they can’t simply go all peacenik or what happened Saturday would happen repeatedly, the Arab world is not a live and let live kind of place

the settlement building needs to stop and America needs to make this clear but this issue is far from all about Israeli aggression, mid east Muslims have a major hang up about Jews and mid east governments show no sign of addressing this

re_ the horrible pictures of Palestinian victims of air strikes , the Saudis have been dishing out the very same treatment to the innocent people of Yemen for several years now , humans are absolutely vile to one another

tesla_newbie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121217315#Comment_121217315

to someone like paul Murphy , anyone to the right of Trotsky is a fascist

Longing

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121217333#Comment_121217333

Not paranoid enough going from Saturday's evidence.

tesla_newbie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121217326#Comment_121217326

It’s a curious thing how Israel is viewed as a poster child of right wing governance by the left in many countries, outside of Israel, Jews are traditionally the most lefty / progressive activist folk you can think of

israel has a lot more in common with the views of most Irish progressives than anywhere else in the mid east , only one country in that part of the world is a friendly place for LGBTQ folks , guess which one?

Raoul Duke III

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121217290#Comment_121217290

I think it's more that the Palestinians were adopted as a cause by the European left (and indeed much of the centre) back in the 1970s.

Now however the main expression of Palestinian resistance is radical Islamicist fundamentalism, backed by the Palestinian people, the European left hasn't adjusted to that new reality.

I mean let's face it, Hamas would happily slaughter all our of ungodly kafir selves...yet we seem to want to cling to them as a cause. They want an Islamist theocracy and the murder of all Jews. Bizarre really that European liberals can still somehow explain away supporting such people.

tesla_newbie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121217353#Comment_121217353

Time will tell what happened, Bibi ( awful leader) is likely to go in extra hard in order to deflect away from analysis of his recent policies which saw IDF personnel redeployed to West Bank to protect illegal settlers who were harassing Palestinians, thus leaving the Gaza border undermanned

ZeroThreat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121217346#Comment_121217346

you'd wonder what events in his childhood or early life caused him to have such extreme left political views, especially on the economic side.

If this goon ever got anywhere near the levers of power, Ireland would degenerate to resemble the GDR under Erich Honecker.

Does the German school in Clonskeagh and UCD indoctrinate those that attend with hardcore marxism?

I think the government need to really take a look at some of the individuals employed by our higher lvl education institutions, they must be jam packed with pinkos, tankies, cranks, crusties and assorted jihadists.

Gusser09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121217333#Comment_121217333

That's what a holocaust will do to the mindset I suppose. Understandable really from an Israeli / Jewish standpoint. All throughout history they have been threatened with extinction.

Hamas are lining up their civilian population in these areas knowing full well they will be butchered. They are doing this PR purposes. The Israelis know full well that they are targeting civilians also.

A human tragedy beyond words. Meanwhile the world stands back and watches.

Gaza doesn't match the criteria for world powers to want to enter it though and "protect" it.

tesla_newbie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121217374#Comment_121217374

I reckon it’s all a big troll act , didn’t get enough attention from Daddy despite being probably spoiled so decided to spend his life doing the “ stick it to the bourgeoisie “ act

RTE are largely to blame for providing him with such vastly disproportionate attention

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121217379#Comment_121217379

Moreover, Hamas deliberately hides weapons etc. inside buildings - such as schools, mosques, hospitals etc. - and when these are targeted by Israel, Hamas go on PR mode to say how evil Israel is to attack these same buildings.

Large bottle small glass

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121217363#Comment_121217363

The current sitting Israeli government is pretty hawkiskly right wing in lots of aspects.

I'm certainly not on the left and I'm a big fan of the accomplishments of Jewish people.

Israel is surrounded by nations who wish they exterminated, so I get that the best way forward isn't simple or obvious.

Bombing Gaza off the face of the earth is definitely the worst option right now.

Israel needs smart moderate statesmen to the fore, as does the west. Unfortunately they are in really short supply.

Hamas don't fear Armageddon, they are a nihilist death cult and in fact welcome the worst Israel can do.

Danzy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121217315#Comment_121217315

In time but you must finish your training as a space cadet first.

Gatling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121217326#Comment_121217326

Interesting enough as far as I'm aware the two systems America received was never actually deployed to combat zones they went fort bliss in Texas and and Andedersen airforce base in Guam ,

In saying that there is other systems deployed by the US to deal with incoming fire at bases from patriots to C-rams ,

Markus Antonius

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121217412#Comment_121217412

I'm certainly not on the left and I'm a big fan of the accomplishments of Jewish people.

Curious to here about the accomplishments you are so enamored by

Jinglejangle69

Let’s be honest the gloves are off for Hamas. They see Israel killing children and civilians everyday in Gaza, breaking international law, expanding settlements and getting away with little condemnation.

Then people act shocked when Hamas carry out atrocities like at the weekend.

The EU comes out with statements that it backs Israel to defend itself, basically gives them a license to respond how they want.

What hope do the people in Gaza have?

There is noone ready to have a mature conversation about Israel and it’s behaviour for decades.

So around and around we go.

Long Sean Silver

unless and until the people of Israel accept that their future is inexorably intertwined with the Palestinian people (and visa versa), then this insanity will never end.

Sudden Valley

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121217290#Comment_121217290

So you are against what China is doing but haven't condemned what israel is doing now- how does that make sense? You list the Hamas numbers as being 20-25k. In a population of 2.5 Million it would be seem the chances of killing Hamas in an air strike are low and the chances of killing civilians are quite high.

But in your mind, people can't demonstrate against civilians being killed? Hamas are scumbags, I would agree but it seems Israel is not against stepping over alot of kids bodies to get at them.

tayto lover

https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-middle-east-67062491

The cries of terrified children should keep the warmongers happy.

Hummingbird Project

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121215651#Comment_121215651

You are wrong to say Israel are going to starve the innocent people of Gaza. Netanyahu ordered everyone in Gaza evacuate it immediately. I do however not support the disproportionate force being used by Israel. A surgical operation to save the hostages and capture the terrorists should have been the action taken.

Those that stay are hard men holding on to piece of land until death in a stubborn manner. It is implicit support for Hamas by their collusion with them by refusing to leave. It is evil to be so stubborn you would kill yourself and your family for a political cause. They should be fleeing for their lives.

Jinglejangle69

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121217452#Comment_121217452

Where the hell are the people in Gaza meant to evacuate too!???

They can’t leave Gaza ffs.

tayto lover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121217452#Comment_121217452

Fleeing to where exactly?

wandererz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121217412#Comment_121217412

Israel has been through dozens of hung elections recently.

There is a reason for that.

One, is a growing younger population who are more open minded, educated and haven't really experienced hardship. They are open to easing restrictions on the Palestinians and build a better Co-operative life.

The other are the hardliners - Need I say more on that.

Then one has a multi party system for government, so coalitions must be formed when there is a deadlock.

Have a look at the comments in that Times of Israel article from a few pages back. It's quite enlightening what people have to say.

redoctober

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121217429#Comment_121217429

To be fair from their perspective how could they accept that. Recently there was a relaxing of security which has now led to this attack. I believe most islamic nations have as their stated goal the extermination of Israel and by extension Jews. How can you make peace with that?

kirk.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121217452#Comment_121217452

Was window dressing surely ordering everyone to evacuate

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121217465#Comment_121217465

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121217459#Comment_121217459

Yes, they can.

The Rafah crossing remains open.

chopperbyrne

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121217452#Comment_121217452

Evacuate **** where? Into Israel? Israeli forces are targeting the Rafah crossing into Egypt, so it's just into the sea then, which is what they have been doing to the Palestinians for decades.

Hamas are scum who will happily hide behind their own civilians and put them in harms way, and the actions they've taken in the last few days towards Israeli citizens are inexcusable.

Israel as a state, and military power are not an innocent party however.