Hamas strike on Israel - mod warning in OP updated 19/10/23

dmcdona

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121477252#Comment_121477252

And that is an excellent point. I would definitely be way out of my comfort zone and expertise even thinking about answering that one. I do know, now I've told you I lived in Israel, that I did "get it" - Israel is surrounded by countries who want to wipe them off the face of the earth. Hence military training for everyone, a well resourced defence force etc.

I was surprised at the reticence/downright denial of Egypt and Jordan to be honest in taking Palestinians. But I don't follow the politics closely enough to understand the reasons.

I'm guessing that perhaps one reason is that the Palestinians see no reason to leave - it is their land. Perhaps Egypt/Jordan see it the same way - why should they leave, it is their country. Perhaps if they left, Israel would never let them back. Fear of another Nakba?

Perhaps Russia/Ukraine is not a good analogy many Ukranians have stayed since they have a right to be in their homeland.

I should read more about it...

duck.duck.go

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121477352#Comment_121477352

You don’t think that’s a more serious topic to discuss compared to two dozen pages of fake outrage at the picture of Hamas fighters having to kneel after being pulled out tunnels?

gameoverdude

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121477362#Comment_121477362

So all cool?

ceadaoin.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121477259#Comment_121477259

Oh you haven't seen a single personal testimony? Maybe because theyre all **** dead or kidnapped or according to some reports, receiving intense psychological treatment. And yes, survivors have recounted witnessing rapes and sexual torture. Did you read the accounts of the state of some the bodies? It's very unlikely to go through that amount of sexual torture and live to tell the tale.

And we don't really need victim accounts when the video and photo evidence is there to see. It's not "a film made by Israel", that's an attempt to make it seem fictionalised. It's the footage that the Hamas terrorists livestreamed of themselves raping, murdering and torturing. And before you say "well we don't actually see anyone being raped" a la Owen Jones...so what? The families are obviously reluctant to share that but the forensic evidence speaks for itself and has been verified by the BBC

gameoverdude

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121477366#Comment_121477366

I presume you have proof? Hamas fighters? Go on. You mean the ones who don't have nappies, water, heating, antibiotics, food, shelter, not being blown to bits..etcetera...go on.

dmcdona

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121477345#Comment_121477345

Which bit?

gameoverdude

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121477382#Comment_121477382

There is nothing fair about that post. It was made up.

ceadaoin.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121477381#Comment_121477381

Hamas have plenty of food and supplies. They get first dibs and stockpile large amounts of aid meant for Palestinian civilians.

dmcdona

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121477310#Comment_121477310

I'll give you full credit for doggedness... Unfortunately, you're barking up the wrong tree.

No-one I have seen has excused rape. You seem to be well able to excuse murder though. At least of one side in this conflict...

You accusing a poster a "rape denier" however is well and truly below the belt.

Ironic that you then post this about yourself: "So we now moved to “attack the poster” phase which I’m fairly sure is against the forum rules"

When you grow up and read these posts again in 10 or 15 years time, I guarantee you'll be mortified.

gameoverdude

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121477400#Comment_121477400

Your point being?

Hamas are scum. Idf as well.

You do realise the Israel is committing genocide? You do right? If you say no, you're happy with executions. Are you?

ceadaoin.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121477414#Comment_121477414

I called a poster a rape denier. That's because they said things like this

"I find the idea of Hamas fighting Israeli soldiers with guns etc - 400 soldiers killed - in a hostile environment over a short period and then sneaking off for a quick rape hard to understand. I guess details would help. How many women were raped and by how many men? Is it possible for example there were 10 or 20 rapists and the rest were non rapist soldiers?

Is it possible that it is a complete lie like the 40 beheaded babies?

It's really disturbing to me to read of the rape stories in such graphic detail you posted however, those things are claimed to have happened, allegedly took place on October 7th, in the past. Past events have already occurred and cannot unhappen."

He clearly doesnt believe the rapes, that have been verified by several agencies and outlets happened, and if they did, then it wasn't as bad as claimed. I've even highlighted the specific parts where the poster is denying and downplaying what happened. That's rape denial and is just one post of many similar ones he has made.

dmcdona

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121477388#Comment_121477388

You've lost me there. Its all true.

Unless you're talking about another post?

I was describing where I lived - I don't quite understand "there is nothing fair" bit? What's not fair about me explaining where I lived in response to another poster who I had asked if they had ever lived there? It was "fair enough" for me to be honest with that person and tell them yes, I had lived there so had some idea of the people/culture/history.

You have me perplexed...

duck.duck.go

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121477414#Comment_121477414

You are welcome to point at examples of me excusing murder

amandstu

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121477228#Comment_121477228

Apology accepted.

I am curious too.It is/was a dreadful look but I can't say why it happened or even if there is an "official" explanation yet.

Generally I try to get my information from Mainstream media sources that employ people who answer these questions for a living.

I haven't seen this discussed yet although it is a story on the front page of both BBC and CNN's online edition.

War is not acceptable in the first place but it seems to be a sine qua non of progress or regress in the times we are in.

In this conflict it is impossible to say who instigated the latest rounds of fighting and it is also unclear what the picture will look like after the smoke as cleared.

gameoverdude

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121477433#Comment_121477433

Don't believe you. Send me on the url.

jmreire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121477327#Comment_121477327

I understand where you are coming from 1000%. And I'm sure that you understand what I was trying to say too. I've worked in many Countries, and it's the same in every one of them. Even in Russia, same thing most are trying to live as best they can. The biggest problem for them is where's the money is coming from to pay the next bill, and there is no social welfare to fall back on. But in all the Countries that I've worked in, they have one common denominator, corruption.

I was offered a job in Jerusalem at one point, and it was a dream come through. Then my visa application was refused, because I was Irish, and would be crossing between Israel and Syria, and they had enough Irish on the heights. (at least that's what I was told. But I still want to go there. And just like you, pick a fresh orange off the branch, and eat it, the cooking, smells the Bazaar's. To walk streets that St. Paul walked. And friendship, when they invite you into their homes. It's a different world, and impossible to describe.

gameoverdude

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121477443#Comment_121477443

That's a load of nothing post.

Aresholes each side and disgusting humans. It takes a lot to get me angry, but I'm angry.

Horrible people and they should be sanctioned. Genocidal ****. All in the name of not going to jail. 10s of thousands of people dead for arrogance.

It's a war crime

dmcdona

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121477430#Comment_121477430

Do you remember a few posts back when I said to you that "words matter"? Be careful what you write.

In the words you quoted, I see nothing that was said that "denies rape". I'd agree that the language is perhaps flippant, but I'm not hanging anyone for language that I wouldn't particularly use myself.

Here's another thing I'll tell you. The first casualty of war is the truth. I'm sure many here have seen the phrase used. And it is the truth. I would be very careful about my sources of information - in fairness, the BBC would be top of the list - but read the BBC reports - they are very careful with their language.

And just because posters here aren't rowing in 100% behind you and your outrage on rape, does not mean that the posters are not outraged. You appear to be outraged about one part of this conflict. There are many parts of this conflict that are outrageous.

dmcdona

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121477437#Comment_121477437

See - you don't like it do you?

Show me where I excused rape or murder:

You said "You and few others are bending backwards awfully hard to excuse mass rape and murder despite multiple evidence provided of a massive campaign of rape by Hamas"

dmcdona

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121477446#Comment_121477446

Nice one.

dmcdona

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121477460#Comment_121477460

I don't believe you.

gameoverdude

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121477463#Comment_121477463

I liked your post, as much as I can with rape.

I try my hardest to be honest, but feck me with a chainsaw, I just don't understand.

I'm not an emotive guy, but this is hitting me hard. There is too many dishonest posts. I think there are shills here.

dmcdona

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121477482#Comment_121477482

I think you are right. There are some here are are selectively outraged when this whole thing is outrageous. Shills even. Its hard to watch - both sides.

I have sympathy for both sides. I abhor what the Israelis have done. I abhor what Hamas have done. I imagine that some of my Israeli friends would abhor what Israel has done. Someone previously mentioned the Hannibal Directive. I'd suggest a read of that. For a nation to even contemplate doing what the Directive required, it indicates how difficult the political nature of the region is and has been for years.

I lived there (really, I did). I had a 7th floor apartment overlooking the Med in Ashkelon - FYI, its where Samson came from (he of Delilah fame). I'd go the beach at the weekend - not a soul for hundreds of meters. Pure bliss. I had talked with herself - just last year - about going back for a holiday for a few weeks. She was never there. I wanted to show her how amazing Israel is. The history, the beauty, the people. But the Israel of today is not what it was for me...

Oh, the Palestinian carpenter, I can guarantee he barely had a pot to piss in. He asked me to come to his home in Gaza to see his three daughters. I never did. I do wonder where he and has family are right now. And I wonder if my Israeli friends are OK too.

jmreire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121477365#Comment_121477365

The point I was making about Russia was that before mad Vlad stole the presidency in Russia, Russians and Ukrainians got on fine together, and I was using that to make the point that most Palestinians and Israelis got on fine too. Until someone stirs the pot. The Balkans were the same under Tito, but when he died, that finished it. I've met Serbs, from Serbia, Croats from Croatia and Bosniaks from Bosnia, all of them with the letters JNA tattooed on the knuckles of their hand. J= Jugoslavia, N= Nacional. A= Armija, or Jugoslavia Nacional Armija. Yet after Tito's death, they were at each other's throats. Again, stirred up by a handful of people, and millions died.

The Palestinians I met in Syria, even the ones born there, had a special passport, classifying them as Palestinian refugees which really limited their ability to travel anywhere. They could not get Syrian passports, because they were told, if you are given another passport, you can never return to Palestine.

As for the reluctance of Jordan, Egypt, Lebanon etc to take Palestinian refugees, historically when they did take them in the past, they caused the existing governments many problems. Generally, they stirred up lots of trouble trying to overthrow the existing leaderships. But check it out. It's very interesting.

As for the Israelis, they also claim Palestine as an ancient right, " the Land God gave to me", and having survived Hitlers attempt to exterminate them, for everyone who says the Palestinians have right's, they answer where were our rights when Hitler was killing us? Men Women and Children?

Both of us have lived in that part of the world, and what happened thousands of years ago, is still alive today. You know that too.

I don't have the answer to this situation. There's enough rights and wrongs to go around both sides.

gameoverdude

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121477516#Comment_121477516

I apologise. So many posts that are dishonest. I just want the world to be cool.

I've mentioned my thoughts on religion. That's my belief or absolutely non belief. No issues with believers. Just be cool.

Talking crap now

gameoverdude

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121475088#Comment_121475088

You don't care. Read your post again

dmcdona

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121477525#Comment_121477525

I'm in full agreement with that - in Israel, my friends and colleagues said the same. There were a few Jewish extremists that stirred the pot and made life difficult for everyone. They still do. I've only the one Palestinian acquaintance - I had no Arabic and he had no English or Hebrew (I could speak a tiny bit of Hebrew). But I'd imagine he would say the same about the extremists in Gaza and further afield. These were people who wanted a quiet life, to grow old, feel the sun on their skin and enjoy their favourite tipple with friends. I guess living in Ireland for 35+ years, I want the same but am prepared to accept that sun on my skin is limited to maybe a couple of weeks a year. And here's the thing - Ireland has been through many troubles. Solutions were found. There is peace here. The Israelis and the Palestinians would give their eye teeth for that. I wish they could have it. I continue to wish it or them.

The same for the people you met on your travels too. Travel certainly broadens the mind and if you have the notion to read up on local politics etc. you soon find that what you see in mainstream media is not the full story.

Yes - I did read an article only recently that the Palestinians kicked off in Egypt and caused a whole lot of trouble. I've no doubt they did it elsewhere too. I was born in the UK - when I first came here, I couldn't believe the history. Famine, the rising, independence and so on. Never taught in the UK (though I accept it probably wasn't a mainstream topic). I still have rows with my family over their continuing ignorance of the history between Ireland and the UK. Though in fairness, friends I have had over have loved the place and have a genuine interest in hearing a history they were never taught.

I read the news and I'm still not hearing anyone coming out with anything that gives any hope in resolving the issue of Israel and the Palestinians, let alone the wider middle east. And yes, rights and wrongs on both sides. We shall live in hope however and trust a solution will come.

I genuinely hope that at some point, I will be able to return to the Port of Jaffa and have dinner and a drink with friends on the huge stone walls protecting the harbour and overlooking the Med as the sun goes down. Sun on my skin...

dmcdona

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121477539#Comment_121477539

I figured something was not quite right there but you weren't being a gobsh*te - so no need to apologise.

It certainly shows, to me anyhow, that we have a good, safe and stable life here in Ireland in comparison. Yes, it would be some world if the biggest scandal anywhere was just a few dodgy politicians and some skangers on the take.

Religion has a lot to answer for... I have a faith, not a religion. And no, I don't believe in God. I believe in something far bigger... But the history of Jerusalem and the shock I got on the Via Dolorosa was genuinely impactful - but only from the historical perspective.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121477574#Comment_121477574

“Religion has a lot to answer for”

Agreed. Organised religion has been an absolute curse on mankind. The sooner its consigned to the dustbin of history, the better.

sock.rocker*

So Israel says 61% of deaths in Gaza are civilians.. And the numbers given say that around 61% of deaths are women and children. That means Israel simply views every Gazan man to be a member of Hamas. Is it any wonder there are so many deaths.

It is beyond my understanding of the world that people can support this.

brickster69

Another IDF comedy show video.

https://twitter.com/YaariCohen/status/1733548691837932015

ILoveYourVibes

I don't know if this has been posted before but it needs traction.

Earlier this month the Israelis introduced a practise of forcing palestinians who have legal work permits for Israel to all wear number tags.

They were detained for 3 days some have obvious and hideous open wounds.

The tags have numbers.

https://twitter.com/CensoredMen/status/1720682840017219642

These workers CANNOT be hamas they are allowed to work in Israel they are from the west bank and they cannot be criminals they would never have been released.

They still have their work permits they were not revoked. Israel is expecting all palestinians in Israel to wear them.

Bear in mind this started a month ago. Its only going viral online now. It was deliberately silenced.

This is genocide.

https://twitter.com/m7mdkurd/status/1720429226560549279

This has been fact checked

ITS TRUE

https://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/fact-check-israel-detained-placed-212500054.html

ILoveYourVibes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121477400#Comment_121477400

Hamas is not an army it is the equivalent of Sinn Fein the equivalent of the IRA is the AL QASSAM brigades. And no they certainly do not. Al Qassam brigades have no access to aid. The Al Qassam brigades are said to have about 50,000 members. Normal rank and file hamas do not know who they are. Much like the normal rank and file of SF are never quite sure who the IRA might be.

brickster69

Advisor to Netanyahu on the humiliation of prisoners

https://twitter.com/Kahlissee/status/1733675811989766239

ILoveYourVibes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121477253#Comment_121477253

Many of the Photos do appear to have been faked and as of yet the IDF has not confirmed a single sexual assault on that day.

Am I denying ? No. Denial is too strong a word.

All I am saying is we dont know what happened on that day.

However we know that IDF tanks arrived hours later after the attack and shani louk was still alive as she was pictured next one. This picture mysteriously got lost. This means she was alive HOURS after the attack first happened.

https://twitter.com/Angryman_J/status/1733179375544385775

Also the pictures of her in the truck appear to have been doctored.

Look closely at the men in the truck at the pic online.

In the first picture they are wearing boots. The second picture they are wearing sandals??

Also they are not wearing balaclavas. Al Qassam brigades always wear balaclavas like the IRA. Hamas however like Sinn fein go about with plain clothes. These men are showing their faces. They have changed outfits in the second photo. Not to mention that the legs of the poor girl are obviously photoshopped.

Al Qassam dont show their faces they have uniforms and they dont wear SANDALS.. in a combat zone?? why the fake photo? Also the legs of shani were proven to be photoshopped and the real position revealed. Its obv an entirely fake photo.

Manufactoring consent requires dehumanization. What better way to do this than accuse someone of heinous things.

THIS IS WHAT AL QASSAM look BELOW like they ALWAYS wear balaclavas LIKE YOU KNOW THE IRA .. and every palestinian LOOKING at the guys in that truck will know THEY CANT BE AL QASSAM ... why would they show their faces?? Now either they are RANDOM palestinians who just HAPPENED to change their shoes for a second picture in the truck?? Or ..its a stitch up.

THINK WE ARE IRISH

SINN FEIN = HAMAS

AL QASSAM = IRA =BALACLAVAS

ILoveYourVibes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121477376#Comment_121477376

Can we not distinguish between Al Qassam and Hamas? I mean we are IRISH .. if the yanks started to call sinn fein the ira or vice versa we would laugh.

Secondly the IDF have not confirmed any rapes. And as I showed above there is altered photos. I mean come on ..

Also you know the IDF has an official policy to rape arab women in some regiments?? In Israel palestinian prisoners are regularly raped and tortured. I mean they make palestinians wear number tags now!

https://twitter.com/alihadi68/status/1731800665951805674

Hey boy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121477801#Comment_121477801

You must have missed the link to an elderly Gazan lady saying exactly that on AJ no less. Aid is taken into the tunnels.

ILoveYourVibes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121477858#Comment_121477858

That wasnt what she was saying. It was fake subtitles. Native speakers have corrected it.

You wont fool the irish.

And since you dont even know the difference between Al Qassam and Hamas maybe do some research.

duck.duck.go

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121477812#Comment_121477812

The journalists from BBC, CNN, New York Times, Washington post, guardian (links on previous page) must be all wrong 😏

The lengths some go to excuse the inexcusable is staggering

Igotadose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121476786#Comment_121476786

Feel free to point out where I wasn't honest; the contention from @end of the road was "Rape is policy of the IDF." Not proved. The key word is 'policy.' Like, there's a book somewhere given to IDF trainees on how to rape.

You can't. Because EOTR's position is dishonest.

I asked EOTR to provide examples after it said "Many, many...". So far, nothing. And EOTR, if you followed the abortion thread, has lots of prior art showing it to be, politely put, economical with the truth.

HTH

ILoveYourVibes

For those who say there was mass rape on OCt 7 i think you need to realize the IDF has not confirmed a single case of rape and no woman went to a rape crisis centre nor had swaps. Strange.

Oh and one woman make the most accusations was found out to be a facist who has said over and over that she is proud to be racist. It kind of discredits her to me.

https://twitter.com/ken_watanabe/status/1732385987601522880/photo/1

ILoveYourVibes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121477872#Comment_121477872

And they retracted it. Besides can you trust she is not paid to say it?

Why know Israel lied about 40 beheaded babied about the rapes. We know Israel shot its own people on the day and most of the damage done was done by Israeli weapons.

We know Israel has bombed and killed some of its own hostages rather than neogtiate.

They make palestinians with legal work permits wear NUMBER TAGS in ISRAEL starting a month ago.

I dont trust a word out of an Israeli spokesperson's mouth.

They are taking vengeance for their grandparents. Not for anything else. And it needs to be stopped.

Igotadose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121477252#Comment_121477252

I've suggested to peers who are on about Ireland's solidarity with Palestine that we should take in a few hundred thousand refugees to help out.

You can imagine the reactions...

ILoveYourVibes

Anyway Israel is getting bored it wants to have a war with lebanon and Iran now.

Also that sucks for us because Irish soldiers are in Iran. I would say they will pull them out soon.

Montage of Feck

While the hostages are still being held the war is 100% justified, yes that means civilians will be killed but in the middle east if you look weak your done for. Look at what happened after the Arab Spring, instability and brutal civil wars that have no end in sight.

ILoveYourVibes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121477723#Comment_121477723

They can't even show us some hamas uniforms to make it look convincing.

Strips guys down they some how have ONE rifle?? DOnt give them clothes back??

Still doesnt explain why they make palestinians with work permits wear number tags in israel now?? And no Israel spokesperson will condemn it. They will contextualize it.

jmreire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121477388#Comment_121477388

And what part of the middle east were you in, and for how long? Because I spent several years there, and I can vouch for his story 100%.

brickster69

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121477912#Comment_121477912

You would of thought they would of took the gun off him before he was stripped. They even released 2 videos of it and messed up

ILoveYourVibes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Mj4OpHEmzk&t=1686s

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121477941#Comment_121477941

No you can not.

Palestinians with work permits are made to wear number tags in Israel.

This has been fact checked.

https://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/fact-check-israel-detained-placed-212500054.html

https://twitter.com/CensoredMen/status/1720682840017219642

This cannot be denied it has been fact checked and verified. You cannot say they are hamas they were let go and they have LEGAL WORK PERMITS.

You can see from the video that they have open wounds.

Being asked to wait for hrs at check points is usual. Being beating is common.

Even ex IDF members admit this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u3DOZXEj0fA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Mj4OpHEmzk&t=1686s

ceadaoin.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121477469#Comment_121477469

"I have to admit it's embarassing reading back my previous comments which could have been more sensitive to the feelings of those with relatives or friends in Israel"

I thanked your post, but to reiterate, thanks for saying this. You should know though, and I'm sure you do, that it's insensitive to anyone who has ever been raped or sexually assaulted and not believed to make comments like that. I don't think you would do it in normal circumstances so maybe ask yourself why in this case you thought it was ok? Also, I'm sorry if I was kind of harsh with my replies to you. I think if you could see my posts over the past 10+ years, I always stand up for women and never condone or minimize rape. I'm not "hasbara" or whatever some people were insinuating earlier in the thread. And I agree with you, your friend and his family shouldn't be executed for the actions of Hamas.