Hamas strike on Israel - mod warning in OP updated 19/10/23

brickster69

Someone getting upset. Surely it is perfectly acceptable to blockade places by sea considering he has carried one out for over a decade.

https://twitter.com/spectatorindex/status/1733557857432580313

tayto lover

I have seen maps of them. Where do you think the hostages are now? Hamas are not stupid though as some of the released hostages were moved from house to house. The argument about the tunnels were about the doctors knowing they were there and that there was a Command Centre in the hospital. Nothing concrete found.

Hey boy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121476412#Comment_121476412

Just checked through today’s ceasefire theatre in London. Admittedly only one media source. Signage all one sided again. No call for Hamas to ceasefire, release hostages or surrender. Strange when it’s just a pro palestine crowd with a small minority of Hamas supporters. Even some of the Gazans themselves are brave enough to condemn Hamas on Al Jazzera. Not in London but. Hopeless really.

tayto lover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121476631#Comment_121476631

Fair play to Mickey.

dmcdona

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121476395#Comment_121476395

But the last paragraph isn't what you said, is it?

You said anyone denying that police forces strip prisoners is an "Israeli hater" (obviously in the context of this thread).

I can think of an alternative reason why people would deny that prisoners being striped naked, cuffed and paraded in the streets (and you said it happens "plenty"): because AGS doesn't do it.

I'm leaning towards the conclusion that you are incapable or unwilling to make (or listen to) a cogent, balanced argument and you're just pouting 'cos you got caught.

gameoverdude

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121476677#Comment_121476677

Ots a round up. That's all.

Sudden Valley

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121476631#Comment_121476631

Yes your point is? If Higgins is what you are worrying about now your priorities are askew. He is an after thought in this event.

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121476604#Comment_121476604

Just wondering was there anyone there calling for Hamas to release prisoners or to call a.ceasefire?

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121476617#Comment_121476617

I've seen ex-British soldiers and ex-senior officers on social media say it is unusual in the extreme to see prisoners being forced to strip to their underwear (to the point where they never once witnessed it) - these are men with 30 years experience and who fought and served in the Gulf War 1989 and Iraq 2003, NI, Bosnia, Afghanistan, Somalia, Sierra Leone etc.

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121476707#Comment_121476707

They're lying

jmreire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121476407#Comment_121476407

Not necessarily so. If they are arrested in ones and two's etc., yes, but in a situation like what is happening in Gaza now, where people (including kids) are captured in large nrs, then they will be ordered to strip, kneel or lie down with their hands on their heads, while being checked row by row before being moved to police stations etc. clothes will be registered to the owner, checked for weapons, and later cross-checked for explosive residue. But this is nothing new in any war zone. Too many times military's have been caught unawares by Civilians (including kids, especially kids) smuggling explosives past the perimeters and causing havoc once inside. Approach any checkpoint, in my experience, you better get used to the experience of having many weapons leveled at you.

Weepsie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121476707#Comment_121476707

Well we know for a fact they were doing it and taking pictures of themselves doing it in iraq or Afghanistan.

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121476729#Comment_121476729

Which would generally be understood to be a war crime, correct?

gameoverdude

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121476707#Comment_121476707

Also the are they're in. Hight temperatures, direct sunlight, no water...sounds a bit like tor...can't think of the word.

jmreire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121476630#Comment_121476630

Disgusting selfies.... sure not only are they disgusting, but also forbidden under the GVA Conventions, just like so many other things that both sides are guilty of. And don't assume that the IDF are the only ones taking pics, because Hamas do it as well. As for degrading, imagine if one or more of these kids etc. exploding a device, now that would do some degrading, I can tell you.

Danzy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121476634#Comment_121476634

The houthis attacking shipping in such globally important routes is a direct attack on the entire globe.

Of course it should necessitate action. There is a duty of care.

A gas or oil ship sunk in the strait of Hormuz and we'll see oil and gas at rates that will strangle the global economy.

A real world effect of a global recession would be millions of lives destroyed and cut short, not much good to someone in the 3rd works whose 2 dollar day job goes to hear middle class leftists in the west cheering on the houthis for sticking it to the yids.

It's negligent of Biden that it isn't treated as urgent.

Every looper in the world has become emboldened by the attempt to rebirth the USSR. Venezuela looking to incorporate part of its neighbour in to its Socialist Republic. Same with the Communists in China looking at Taiwan.

That's before one starts to look at Islamic lunatics like Hamas, Taliban, Iran, and the long list.

Israel are tough and can be rough in defending themselves but they remain the nicest in a neighbourhood of immense brutality and unfathomable savagery.

Israel will long remain the best place in the region for Jew, Arab. LGBT etc to live in, by some margin.

Now launch away Joe.

Igotadose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121476692#Comment_121476692

As you're joining it a bit late to this, let's recap:

Hamas uses Sexual violence as part of their campaign

EOTR: So does the IDF! So, Hamas is excused.

me: Proof?

EOTR: NO proof!

You: IDF bad!

So, any proof that IDF is using sexual violence as policy for this campaign?

Weepsie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121476672#Comment_121476672

Over 60 of those killed by the idf are civilians. It's not a war against Hamas at this stage..it's a mass slaughter.

No conflict since before 1900 has had a higher proportion of civilians killed. For all telhey boast about target killings they're just letting fly and hoping for the best.

end of the road

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121476617#Comment_121476617

i know kids can carry weapons and explosives, however weapons and explosives is not the reason the IDF strip and all else civilians, it is to humiliate them and even rape them.

if they were carrying explosives they would just use them and blow themselves up before the IDF would have any chance to stop them.

Weepsie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121476395#Comment_121476395

It's absolutely not normal and doesn't happen everywhere.

Such complete and utter bollox to legitimise israels continuing dehumanising of people

Igotadose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121476707#Comment_121476707

If it's on Twitter, it must be true, amiright?

gameoverdude

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121476754#Comment_121476754

I may have misinterpreted your post. Apologies if so.

I just can't get my head around either side. The hate. It's mind boggling. Maybe I'm simple, but...I dunno, it's exasperating.

Both sides are absolute gobshites, but feck sake innocents, both sides.

All for political gain. Heartbreaking and I'm not exactly a softy.

Danzy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121476771#Comment_121476771

You need to get your deep insights in to how suicide bombers operate in front of them

The wider middle East has seen thousands of them in the last 20 years, please make the difference.

gameoverdude

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121476759#Comment_121476759

They can join in whenever they want.

If we disagree, good. As long as its honest.

Your post wasn't.

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121476738#Comment_121476738

What are you talking about? I have never posted anything racist, it's actually funny it's so ridiculous!

you can of course point them out? Theses racist posts? I will not be responding to any of your abusive posts until you can prove your statement.

Oh and my question about pro Palestinian parades stands, any anti Hamas posters? Anyone calling for Hamas to release prisoners.

Edit, poster answered my question

dmcdona

What is the end game here?

I'm not an expert by any stretch but my gut tells me that this situation has the potential to spread beyond Israel itself (other than the odd sporadic rocket from Lebanon/Yemen).

If Israel continue bombing Gaza into the stone age and disproportionately killing innocent civilians, I'm guessing that actors in the West Bank/East Jerusalem, Lebanon, Iran, Yemen and Syria would become involved. I don't know how involved but if Israel were to be fighting two or more fronts, would it be fair to assume it wouldn't be pretty and could militarily escalate way beyond Israel?

I can't imagine that muslim/arab countries supportive of the Palestinians would continue to sit back as passive observers for too long? Or, once the entirety of Gaza is a wasteland, they would then just tune out?

I do know that all I want is for the fighting to stop, for the diplomats to take over and for peace/security for both sides. Blindingly naive I know...

Danzy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121476809#Comment_121476809

A few have marched for Palestine with release the hostages placards, but get a lot of push back and harassment from others there.

You'd have to be very tough or flippant about your well being to call for hostages to be released at this stage.

jmreire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121476707#Comment_121476707

I've been in a few of these places you mentioned too, and personally, I remember one incident where a little 7- or 8-year-old girl who had a suicide vest strapped on to her and covered with an Abaya, before being sent towards the checkpoint. Luckily, one of the soldiers manning the checkpoint spotted something unusual about the sight of a little girl all by herself walking towards them and managed to get to her and disarm the belt. For sure, in situations like these, the motto is check first, verify safety (or not) and discuss afterwards. This is what the IDF are doing. The Soldiers you mention on social media saying that it was unusual in the extreme, and they had never witnessed it, all very true I'm sure, but neither are they claiming that it never happens. But I bet you if you asked if they stripped and searched captured combatants / non-combatants etc. they would tell you, it's SOP, and stark naked too, not just down to their underwear. And as we are seeing now, for the IDF it's SOP too, only difference is the nrs and the location they are being checked in.

gameoverdude

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121476809#Comment_121476809

You think it's funny refugee camps being bombed? Reporters and aid workers being killed. That type of funny?

Yes hamas should release prisoners. Idf should as well.

Question answered I believe, even though it wasn't directed at me.

So, answer honestly. War happens and innocents are slaughtered in their 1000's. Grand?

Don't go back on your previous posts. I've been honest. Your turn. Consider it cathartic.

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121476773#Comment_121476773

It is normal in circumstances where the suspects may have firearms or explosives on their person and anyone that doesn't put those people down and search then are putting themselves and everyone else in the area in danger.

tayto lover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121476722#Comment_121476722

Hasn't happened here in Ireland.

Danzy

https://www.thenation.com/article/world/israel-gaza-war/

An article I found very interesting and one that I think touches on a key point neglected by many in the West

Hamas and many Palestinians don't look at this in terms of campaign or objectives but over decades and from a religious point of view. They are looking at it from a world view where an almighty God is guiding them to long term victory over his Jewish enemies. They believe that with a certainty that very few leaders in the West have exhibited in a century or more.

I think the author is missing the point that Israel are aware of the mindset and are acting long term as well.

Long term thinking in the West is not something that now extends beyond the immediate.

end of the road

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121476781#Comment_121476781

i am well aware of how they work thanks.

still doesn't change the fact that explosives and weapons were not the reason for the IDF'S behaviour against these civilians.

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121476866#Comment_121476866

Please point out my racists posts that you accused me of, otherwise I'm not engaging with your abusive posts

jmreire

What hasn't happened here in Ireland? Suspected People not being checked for weapons / explosives? For sure it has happened, remember Northern Ireland? People were checked on the street's women doing their shopping, cars stopped, and the drivers and passengers searched as well as the vehicle, and as for the one's arrested and taken to the police stations or military barracks. Being strip searched was only the beginning. Do you think that even in the present day, people arrested are not searched? You can be damn sure that they are searched, to make sure that they cannot harm anyone, including themselves.

tayto lover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121476920#Comment_121476920

Garda ERU stripping suspects to their boxers and making them kneel in the street.

jmreire

Palestine, which this thread is about, is a long way from Ireland, and the differences between the two Countries is about as wide as its possible to get, in almost every respect yu can think of.

dmcdona

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121476878#Comment_121476878

If Israel was that aware of the mindset, why is this happening?

Or perhaps they are totally aware and they see the only long term end game is extermination of Hamas and the Palestinians?

I do believe there are many in the West who do have a long term outlook - the two state solution has been mooted for years. I only hope that those long term visionaries prevail and that Israel does not have a long term goal of eradicating innocent Palestinians who are only where they are because of where they were born.

SeanW

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121473798#Comment_121473798

I don't know if there have been any changes recently, but historically, the international laws of warfare have been very clear: any facility used by a belligerent is a legitimate military target and if one side chooses to use human shields, they and they alone are responsible for any civilian losses.

That was the German Empire's defense for sinking the RMS Lusitania in 1915 - that the ship was a legitimate target being not only British flagged but also - allegedly - containing prohibited military materiel, not listed on its manifest. I don't know if that was true and frankly I have my doubts, but the law was clear. So AFAIK, as long as the civilians are not the targets, it's legal. Unless da Joos are being held to some ridiculous standard that no-one else in history has been.

And that's what seems to be happening. Hamas/Gaza have made it clear that they want Israel to be completely destroyed and its people imperilled if not all killed. And yet some people seem to think that Israel has some kind of duty to co-exist with Hamas, who has been terrorising their people since Israel made the mistake of leaving the Gaza strip in 2005.

tayto lover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121476942#Comment_121476942

I'm well aware of that but it was stated in the thread that it happens here which is entirely not true.

tayto lover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121476874#Comment_121476874

Now you're moving the goalposts. Its very funny reading.

dmcdona

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121476942#Comment_121476942

Where you ever there?

I think the the differences are a lot less than you think.

If the differences were so great, I'd find it very hard to understand why so many people have taken to the streets in Ireland to protest. People see the inhumanity, see the carnage thrust on the Palestinians and sympathise entirely. Possibly because the protesters have families and kids etc. and see the injustice.

Granted, its a tad warmer in Palestine than here. A bit sunnier too. And food is a bit different as is the language. But no different than hollybobs to Italy really.

duck.duck.go

I see we had a few more pages going on and on about poor men without shirts and zero mentions of deliberate policy of rape of women by Hamas

Sir_Name

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121475394#Comment_121475394

But you said it happened plenty of times. Surely it would be ridiculous to claim as such without any form of evidence? Especially as to you it seems so normal that the IDF photographed it…

Sudden Valley

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121476977#Comment_121476977

Your selective outrage is also very visible. Of all the atrocities in this war I see why you choose to be offended by rape more than murder as Israel is more guilty of that.

Sir_Name

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121475356#Comment_121475356

Can you please provide proof that the gardai as stated by you stripped people down to their underwear and photographed them in case they were wearing suicide belts… tbf you said plenty…

dmcdona

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121476977#Comment_121476977

No-one is stopping you mentioning the horrific policy of of rape of women by Hamas as many times as you like. I have no problem with you mentioning it by the minute if that's what assuages you. Fill your boots.

But in any reasonable discussion, both sides of an argument get to say their piece (hopefully in a dignified, truthful and respectful manner)

No-one is stopping anyone calling out the IDF using human shields, raping of Palestinian children, burning Palestinian families alive in their home or the Jewish settlers who steal Palestinian land.

tayto lover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121476977#Comment_121476977

Horrific as it is and criminal as it is both sides have done that at different times in their history. I wish it would all stop.

Sir_Name

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121475950#Comment_121475950

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121475937#Comment_121475937

So there’s no evidence. It doesn’t happen in Ireland. No proof, other than what you say happens “plenty”.

so basically what you said what BS and to justify the picture the IDF too. Says. It. All.

Sudden Valley

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121477028#Comment_121477028

Yes I have said but I only cant understand why you would reach to the outrage of rape rather than the greater crimes of murder or manslaughter to be outraged about. Do i believe Hamas of rape, definitely, they are scum, but do I believe posters here are supporting the murder or manslaughter of Gazan civilians with their non-objection to this operation, most definitely too.