Hamas strike on Israel - mod warning in OP updated 19/10/23

Calahonda52

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121204247#Comment_121204247

This is a narrow focus, you need to go back to '48 and see the seeds of this conflict to get a better understanding of the issues.

Cordell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121217446#Comment_121217446

I hope you mean the warmongers from both sides, because when palestinians attacked civilians in Israel they knew that a retaliation will come and it will cause deaths among civilians including their own children. So it was a sacrifice they were willing to make. And they made it.

Calahonda52

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121217373#Comment_121217373

You could also ague that BiBI buried the intel so allow him go to war.

As an aside, without making any comment on the outcome the level of planning and scale of execution is something to behold.

tayto lover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121217500#Comment_121217500

Innocent children made no choice.

Large bottle small glass

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121217426#Comment_121217426

15 odd million disproportionately represented in any field you wish to mention; medicine, hard sciences, pharma, art, military, education.

Even if you hate Jewish people you can't deny their excellence in any field that matters. Within a generation of setting up the modern state they had the most efficient dairy herd in the world l; in a desert with the industry started by uprooted bookkeepers, bankers etc.

They could actually make a strong argument that they are a superior race.

redoctober

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121217370#Comment_121217370

+100. Very strange situation where the left fall over themselves to side with Palestine. Also, how the left who believe in peace love and happiness won't condemn the atrocities committed by palestinians. Last night on UpFront the Palestinian lady had nothing to say when asked about Hamas murdering and raping. She was silent. So that shows someone who doesn't actually want peace but only peace for themselves which is just gross hypocrisy.

Also, a question for those who support palestinians with a carte blanche: where should the Jews live? After WW2 they had been almost wiped out and were repatriated to Israel (not a perfect solution I agree). The Islamic nations would happily wipe them off the face of the earth.

Danzy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121217466#Comment_121217466

Israel over the last 50 years is one of the most open and liberal societies in the world, in one of the most regressive parts of the world and with a hostile grouping in it that are the most regressive of the region and led in Gaza by the most regressive within that group.

Gatling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121217510#Comment_121217510

But who put there innocent children directly at risk,. remember the children killed in Israel this weekend including babies,

Say my name

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121217144#Comment_121217144

This is it. Even the Palestinian doctor on morning Ireland yesterday refused to condemn the actions of Hamas. She said she wasn't on to talk about the actions of the attackers. Then she tried to put the spiel of people in Gaza. People don't go out of there way to murder every living being they come across. That's the work of terrorists. If she of straight away condemned those actions as inhuman she would have garnered some sympathy.

What's really going to have to happen is every Muslim country is going to have to take in a share of the population of Gaza.

Before anyone says Europe. Would you want people as indoctrinated to murder innocent civilians with machine guns and so hateful of western society and white people as neighbours?

They'd be better catered for culturally in the Muslim countries.

wandererz

Evacuate "Gaza City" .

There is a difference between the Gaza Strip and Gaza City.

Gaza City is the part of the Gaza Strip which is closest to Sderot, which was one of the towns attacked.

It is also where HAMAS bases itself.

The order was given to evacuate Gaza City, not the Gaza Strip.

TedBundysDriver

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121217272#Comment_121217272

The IDF are the world's biggest terrorist organisation. Instead of having the UN and western democracies condemn them for their actions they have that same cohort support them to do as they please.

I see this morning they have said the coming operation won't be "clean", the real world translation is we will be indiscriminately kill men, women, children, babies etc...

Danzy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121217512#Comment_121217512

He'll view their accomplishments as collapsing Germany in WW1, the great depression etc etc

Sudden Valley

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121217521#Comment_121217521

But if you kill innocent kids or put them in danger you are to blame, that makes you a child murderer. In this scenario it is both Hamas and the Israelis.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121217118#Comment_121217118

Why should Egypt take on a problem of Israel's making and allow it to finish it's ethnic cleansing of the country?

How about the alternative of Israel withdrawing to the Internationally recognised borders and allowed the Palestinians back on their land? Then let them join Egypt if they want.

The EU is taking in Ukrainian refugees. But it is still a temporary protection scheme. They aren't taking them in so that Russia can just have the land and everyone is happy

tayto lover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121217521#Comment_121217521

I'm remembering all children. All innocent victims of the warmongers on both sides. Children who have committed no crimes, no atrocities and who are too young to understand what is going on. But the warmongers will keep on murdering and the innocents will die. Its being going on for years and the so-called intelligent men don't see it or don't care. Rinse and repeat.

Interesting how this conflict has spurred constant “children are being killed!” but the Russian invasion I don’t remember so much concern for Russian and Ukrainian children?

Why is this?

Gatling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121217542#Comment_121217542

This wouldn't be happening right now and this thread wouldn't exist if it wasn't for the terrorist attack on Israel

TedBundysDriver

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121217452#Comment_121217452

He "ordered" them. What right does he have to order anyone to leave, it's their land for christ sake.

Netanyahu is a dangerous moron, the Israeli Trump except 10 times more dangerous.

Gusser09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121217560#Comment_121217560

Or perhaps multiple atrocities against Gaza and palestine. there are not right or worng sides in this mess. It's not like the Ukraine / Russian war.

Both Israel and Hamas are to blame for the current state of the region.

Igotadose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121217547#Comment_121217547

Why did Egypt put up a border then? Why doesn't Egypt want Hamas?

The 6 day war was Israel's making? Really?

tayto lover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121217560#Comment_121217560

Its been going on for years. Children shot by the IDF while playing football on a beach, shot while dining on a rooftop in the sun. Both sides do it. Read the reports, you can just google it. The trouble didn't start last Saturday for God's sake.

Long Sean Silver

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121217477#Comment_121217477

i disagree. look at what Germany did to it's neighbours during WW2, Japan likewise. they are now living in peace.

but if we accept they can never live/coexist together, then we have 2 possible outcomes,

1. one side exterminates/expels the other from the region
2. never ending killing

Danzy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121217557#Comment_121217557

The Russians aren't Jews. If Israel was a Muslim country and killing 10 times the number of Palestinians it wouldn't even register on the news.

The same people would probably be talking it up as a Socialist paradise.

Jequ0n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121217557#Comment_121217557

Because people don’t really care, but it makes for a good “argument” right now.

Sudden Valley

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121217560#Comment_121217560

If and buts. That is history, full of horrible people. But not sure why if you are neutral in this conflict, why you would try to emphasise the killing of innocents on one side and try to downplay the killing of innocents on the other side. So much disdain and accusations being thrown at those wanting the killing to stop.

If Israel keep bombing innocents those who support them have blood on their hands as much as those who support Hamas.

Cordell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121217542#Comment_121217542

Yes, both sides kill children. That's war, it's ugly and evil.

Almost every time it's palestinians who start it by attacking civilians. Then Israel have to retaliate, and what can they attack? There are no military objectives in Gaza, no actual army, no army bases, the palestinians fighters are not uniformed, they don't belong to a proper army, they just mix with the civilians. IDF have no other choice but to strike whatever they can strike.

Oscar_Madison

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121217591#Comment_121217591

And it looks like Israel are choosing option 1 right now

Danzy

There is open country in Gaza, it's not all buildings.

An option maybe to recreate the Gaza strip far to the south in Israel, have the Negev as a natural barrier to crossing, make it an Egyptian protectorate.

ArthurDayne

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121217557#Comment_121217557

Well, I think it did, didn't it? Not least demonstrated by the fact that an enormous effort has been made across Europe and within Ukraine itself to accommodate families fleeing the country. There's also the fact here that the Ukrainian forces are acting within Ukraine, there's no talk of a revenge carpet bombing of Moscow. What we are looking at here is a Hamas attack that deliberately targeted unarmed civilians and an Israeli response that is likely to be supremely uncaring as to how many unarmed civilians it wipes out.

They are just two different situations that horrify people in different ways.

Danzy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121217591#Comment_121217591

The blunt reality of it.

tayto lover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121217557#Comment_121217557

So you're back at your old tricks again. Two-faced stuff. There was plenty of condemnation of innocent children being murdered.

Sudden Valley

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121217604#Comment_121217604

It is not war per se. It is an insurgency.

Mossad have assassinated numerous Hamas operatives without bombing whole buildings. That is the way to go to destroy that evil organisation. It is harder for sure but if they valued palestinians lives a jot they would do this. Instead they bomb whole buildings and kill innocent people who they brand as collateral damage.

I can see how the Israelis wouldn't care as they hate the Palestinians and vice versa but not sure how neutrals in the conflict like people in Ireland would think this is acceptable.

tesla_newbie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121217412#Comment_121217412

Bibi N is a ghoul altogether but has a very big profile in America, the illegal settlements make Israel a rogue state in a lot of ways but the Arab states have work to do in addressing the inherent anti semetism of the region and that needs fixing even a less Hawkins Israeli state emerges and withdraws to agreed borders

circadian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121217521#Comment_121217521

Two wrongs don't make a right. Unbelievable.

What Hamas done was barbaric and Israel has every right to defend and push them back. Flattening the Gaza strip without discrimination is no better. The rhetoric from Israel is clear that they have no problem annhiliating everyone in Gaza in the name of self defence.

Hamas, Hezbollah and the Israeli government are all cut from the same cloth. Fundamentalist terroist organisations and ultimately it's the every day people walking the streets of Israel, Palestine and Lebanon that pay the price. None of them need much of a catalyst or excuse to start hammering civilian populations with bombs.

timmyntc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121216994#Comment_121216994

Israel have just bombed the rafah crossing, so thats out

tesla_newbie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121217509#Comment_121217509

I wouldn’t put it past him to allow it as a pretext but he’s not a dictator, surely others wouldn’t have intervened?, redeploying troops to back up illegal settlers in the West Bank is a more credible explanation

tesla_newbie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121217370#Comment_121217370

Progressives have a major blind spot for anti progressive views if they stem from minorities

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121217557#Comment_121217557

A come on now there was plenty of that.

In relation to Israel-Gaza conflict. I've never seen such nonsense posted everywhere around this conflict. People going all in with one side. Refusing to lay any blame at the others door. Unable to think critically and reason that there is some fault on both sides. Unable to reconcile the fact that there are innocents on both sides.

It's a scary time people have become so **** dangerously stupid. You would wonder what their social media feeds look like. That's where I squarely lay the blame.

kirk.

Annoying thing about Israel is the way they control the Gazans

It's like a form of slavery cutting off food and electricity

What gives them the right

circadian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121217557#Comment_121217557

There's been plenty of outrage about incidents involving children in Ukraine, from Bucha, to the opera house being bombed depsite a sign saying "Children" outside it and the mass kidnapping and relocation of children from Ukraine.

What on earth are you on about?

tayto lover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121217601#Comment_121217601

Warmonger stuff.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121217557#Comment_121217557

That's a false equivalence. And it is dishonest to make it.

I don't think the average child in Russia has a high probability of being killed by a Ukrainian strike. Be they in St. Petersburg or Moscow or Siberia. Some Ukrainian children had the safe haven of protection in the EU. Ignoring that, and pretending that none left, here are some stats for you

1) Population density of Ukraine is about 1% of the population density of Gaza. That is for the entire population.

2) The median age in Gaza is 18. The median age in Ukraine is about 45. Population of Ukraine less than 18 was less than 20%. So you are probably looking at a ratio of 250 if you just look at the density of children.

3) Ukraine has the ability to defend itself. Gaza does not. Every single rocket that Israel fires onto the territory, whether from air, land, or sea, will hit a target and explode.

Nevertheless, you might have missed the reporting of Ukrainian children being abducted and sent to Russia. It was only constantly in the news for months.

McFly85

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121217634#Comment_121217634

Agreed. Israel have every right to defend themselves and the attacks at the weekend are abhorrent, but if the goal is to destroy Hamas then exposing ordinary Palestinians to indiscriminate violence and horror is going to keep Hamas going through radicalisation. It’s very easy to sit here and say “well Hamas initiated it”, but try telling that to an ordinary Palestinian who’s lost family and friends in retaliation.

Gerrymandering reborn

Just read that Hamas executed 10 Nepali Hindus - what did they do wrong? They didn't even look Israeli

Hummingbird Project

The situation with Spain is interesting. I think they have their own unity problems with the breakaway Basques there. They are appeasing the terrorists and siding with the weaker side in this conflict and it makes sense from their POV.

I support Spain and Spanish unity but am totally opposed to SF gaining sympathy traction in this country from this. If anything SF should be completely ostracised and removed from politics in this country if they continue to support terrorist organisations.

Indeed they should be banned from ever running for office if these connections continue. It’s misrepresenting a vast portion of law abiding Irish citizens who have worked hard their whole lives only for their country to be taken over and run by terrorists. What does that say about Ireland?

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121217614#Comment_121217614

That as may be. The population density of Gaza is nearly five times the population density of Cork city for example. (Not county - city)

So basically take the population of Cork city, squash them into 20% of its area, and then point out all the nice open country they have left within that 20%

Oscar_Madison

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121217646#Comment_121217646

I presume it’s geography that gives them the means. You have a right to close your borders to another country- I’m not saying that’s ethically good but it is a “right” nevertheless.

Apparently there’s a huge network of underground tunnels in Gaza which I believe are a key target by the Israelies.

When at war, these are the type of things that happen. I’m not condoning them but they are all activities associated with war.

Danzy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121217682#Comment_121217682

The 3 groups most hated in Islam are Jews, Polytheists and women.

The thousands of God's in Hinduism mark them out for special treatment.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121217697#Comment_121217697

When at war, these are the type of things that happen. I’m not condoning them but they are all activities associated with war.

So are unlawful killings and rape. It doesn't excuse them.

kirk.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121217697#Comment_121217697

They do in general exert authority over the gazans

It seems to be a might is right situation overall