Hamas strike on Israel - mod warning in OP updated 19/10/23

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121490475#Comment_121490475

I can tell when someone is shouting "anti-Semitic" purely as a point scoring exercise and your post is a perfect example of it, given you were asked and were unable to find posts where you challenged hostile examples of anti-semitic slurs directed against Jews on this thread. The anti-semitic slurs directed against Jews, using anti Jewish tropes. They weren't nuanced enough to target "Israelis" nor when death cults like Hamas chant for deaths it is to The Jews not to The Israelis.

It is obvious that a significant amount of the hostility towards Israel is based on anti-semitic foundations. That does not mean criticising Israel necessarily is anti-Semitic. But it is a significant factor and it is has manifested on this thread also.

So your pretence of caring about anti-Semitism is revealed to be hollow and without foundation, this is just a angle of attack to point score against Israel.

There is obviously a connection between Israel and Jews, given it is the homeland of such a significant number of the Jewish population and many Jews not living in Israel feel an attachment to it. It is not anti-semitic to point this out.

Snooker Loopy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121490791#Comment_121490791

This post is a classic example of shouting. You were asked to point out what I have said is anti-Semitic and why. You have refused to do so, but you keep shouting anyway.

This is QAnon level "shout paedophile at them" stuff.

You also believe it's legitimate to conflate Jews with Israel. That is YOYU perpetuating actual anti-Semitism. I laid out specifically why this is so in my previous reply to you.

Here it is again:

The myth that Jews = Israel holds that non-Israeli Jews are automatically "disloyal" to their country of origin, it holds that all Jews are responsible for the actions and crimes of the state of Israel (they are not), it turns Jewish individuals, schools, places of worship or businesses into "legitimate targets" for protest or intimidation in response to Israel's crimes because it conflates these things with Israel (when they are absolutely not Israel), and it promotes crazy ideas of a "Jewish world conspiracy".

So by perpetuating the myth that Jews = Israel, it is the likes of YOU and the other poster SeanW - as well as Israel itself who promotes this anti-Semitic myth - who are saying that Jewish individuals, Jewish schools, Jewish places of worship, Jewish businesses etc. that these are Israeli, and thus you are deeming them legitimate targets for political protest.

But they are NOT legitimate targets for protest, intimidation or anything else, for the bleedin' obvious reason that a Jewish school or place of worship or business does NOT equal Israeli.

Ulixes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121490409#Comment_121490409

Israel is not a sentient entity. Are you therefore referring to the Israeli Government or every do you include Israeli?

Do you just include all Jewish Israelis or do you include the Arab Israelis? What about those of mixed heritage?

Words matter and precision of language matters.

Snooker Loopy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121490659#Comment_121490659

Anti-Semitism absolutely IS a problem and there is real anti-Semitism within a minority of the pro-Palestine movement internationally.

But too many of those who are tasked with fighting anti-Semitism and those who should be calling out anti-Semitism are not really interested in doing that, they're too busy mendaciously reclassifying legitimate and necessary criticism of the state of Israel as "anti-Semitic", and thus cheapening the very concept of anti-Semitism itself for political purposes.

The IHRA examples of anti-Semitism are a classic example of this. The IHRA examples of anti-Semitism are a pro-Israel political project rather than a good faith attempt to combat real anti-Semitism.

Nowadays it seems you can get away with any anti-Semitism as long you're sympathetic to Israel. Donald Trump, Vladimir Putin, Kevin McCarthy, Viktor Orban, the Law and Justice party in Poland, Douglas Murray, Kevin Myers and Elon Musk have all proved that. And Israel itself proves it over and over and over again.

This is a grotesque inversion of reality as a political propaganda project.

Ulixes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121490659#Comment_121490659

That's certainly the predominant message at the moment but at other times Islamophobia is discussed much more.

Snooker Loopy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121490959#Comment_121490959

Israel's basic law defines it as a Jewish state. A Jewish state for a Jewish people, just like Northern Ireland defined itself as a Protestant state for a Protestant people.

Israel's government and propaganda operation believes words matter. But not in a good faith way. Every reality-denying regime in history knows that words matter. That is why reality-denying regimes use words to distort, not to inform.

That is why Israel searches endlessly for any formula of words and policing of words which will delegitimise and discredit its critics.

And why it engages in words which distort the truth for political gain, even if these words constitute real anti-Semitism, which they often do.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121490867#Comment_121490867

Pretty much everyone accepts that Jews = Israel is a myth.

However, what has been pointed out to you, and which you have consistently refused to accept is that much of anti-Israeli sentiment is poorly disguised anti-Semitism, which is a fact. To be taken credibly as a critic of Israel, you therefore need to acknowledge this problem and carefully distinguish your criticism from anti-Semitism, however, by not acknowledging the reality that much of anti-Israeli sentiment is poorly disguised anti-Semitism, you run the risk of having your own criticism categorised in that fashion.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121491066#Comment_121491066

Where did Northern Ireland define itself as a Protestant state for a Protestant people? Is there a constitutional or legal basis for this?

If you want a proper comparison, you could look to the Irish Constitution:

"Article 44.1.2 of the 1937 Constitution recognised the ‘special position of the Holy Catholic and Apostolic Roman Church as the guardian of the faith professed by the great majority of citizens’."

Snooker Loopy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121491200#Comment_121491200

That "Jews = Israel" is of course a myth. It's an anti-Semitic trope. It's pro-Israel posters here and Israel itself who are denying it is a myth. That's anti-Semitism.

Again you are flinging around accusations of anti-Semitism against those who disagree with you without making any effort to substantiate it at all. That's not a serious effort to debate, it's on the same level as QAnon supporter "paedophile" accusations.

Nobody is an anti-Semite merely because you feel like flinging around unsubstantiated and unfounded accusations, no more than a particular current Irish Government minister is somehow a "paedophile" because some fascist Twitter troll accounts with Irish flag emojis and telephone numbers in their usernames fling around baseless crazy accusations.

Snooker Loopy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121491229#Comment_121491229

James Craig said it. He was the Prime Minister of Northern Ireland.

Northern Ireland, like Israel, was caught in the double think that it was a state for one religion and one religion only, while also pretending that it did not discriminate against the minority.

The Republic of Ireland also discriminated on a religious basis as you point out and as far as I know technically still does according to the constitution.

However neither the Northern Ireland state nor the Republic were ever remotely as a cold a house for the minority as Israel is nor inflicted the level of utterly grotesque and systematic oppression it has inflicted on Palestinians.

Northern Ireland was a hateful place, but Catholics were not reduced to the level of the Jewish ghettoes of World War II like Palestinians now are.

ceadaoin.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121491361#Comment_121491361

You're the one trying to put Jews into "good" and "bad" categories. So if a Jewish business owner did support Israel then they are fair game for attacks or something? What about a Jewish school that flies the Israel flag? How about no Jewish person should be attacked based on their support of Israel? That would probably be better

Snooker Loopy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121491413#Comment_121491413

How am I trying to do that? This is more bluster and unsubstantiated nonsense.

It is Israel and those who refuse to acknowledge that "Jews = Israel" is an anti-Semitic trope who are saying that "Jewish business and schools and places of worship = Israel".

Israel seems happy to place a big red cross on the heads of Jews worldwide for its own convenience. This is similar to how the far right in Ireland, far from wanting to protect people from crime, want crimes like the Parnell Square stabbing to happen, and they want more of them. Because such crimes benefit them politically. It's also similar to how Hamas sees the slaughter of Palestinians by Israel as a massive recruiting sergeant, benefitting it in the long run.

I condemn any attacks on Jewish civilians anywhere whether they support Israel or not. But challenging people on their political views in an appropriate setting is not an attack. If people people volunteer opinions in accepted forums for debate such as Twitter or other online forums, they will be challenged.

Meanwhile we have complete silence from the pro-Israel posters here as it is demonstrated that supporters of Palestinian human rights are under consistent and chilling attack in the US and elsewhere.

Timberrrrrrrr

So it turns out the IDF did kill many israelis on the 7th

" “Casualties fell as a result of friendly fire on October 7, but the IDF [Israeli military] believes that … it would not be morally sound to investigate” them."

https://electronicintifada.net/blogs/asa-winstanley/israel-admits-immense-amount-friendly-fire-7-october

tayto lover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121491510#Comment_121491510

Very interesting.

ceadaoin.

Yes I'm sure a site called "electronic intifada" is completely non biased

tayto lover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121491564#Comment_121491564

Maybe. But maybe, just maybe they are telling the truth and there are many who wouldn't like the truth coming out. If the IDF did kill a lot of their own it would go some way in explaining why they are missing a lot of their targets and still killing their own in Gaza as well as a lot more.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121491397#Comment_121491397

A political statement by one Prime Minister does not make a Protestant state for a Protestant people. Good republicans have been dining out on this trope for a long time but it was never a true legal or constitutional reality.

The Republic has been far more of a singular state for a singular religion and is a much better comparison to Israel.

However, neither Northern Ireland to Catholics, the Republic to Protestants or Israel to Muslims come close to the way that Hamas and the PLO have treated Jews over the years. If you want to engage in the macabre ranking of intolerant regimes and countries, Hamas in Gaza are right at the top (or the bottom if you prefer) with Qatar, Saudi and the UAE in how they treat minorities and minority religions.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121491361#Comment_121491361

Nothing unfounded about anything in my post. Read it carefully.

brickster69

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121491564#Comment_121491564

It was posted yesterday and has been posted on here for the last 6 weeks from Israeli sources that many people died through friendly fire on the 7th. They are even shooting their own now.

https://www.ynetnews.com/article/rkjqoobip

Fr D Maugire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121491587#Comment_121491587

So the reason only 6 counties of Ulster were wanted in NI versus 9 was why again?

tayto lover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121491397#Comment_121491397

Can't disagree with any of that.

tayto lover

Things are getting worse in Gaza. Children suffering bombing, starvation and now the weather is turning bad. Hope it ends soon. Bad day for the IDF too.

Israel suffers worst combat losses since October (rte.ie)

Fr D Maugire

Interestingly BBC saying Israel is trying to control the media narrative, refusing to let international reporters access to Gaza.

https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-middle-east-67687628?ns_mchannel=social&ns_source=twitter&ns_campaign=bbc_live&ns_linkname=657979b287855b2dac7d42b6%26Israel%20is%20trying%20to%20control%20the%20media%20narrative%262023-12-13T11%3A12%3A07.585Z&ns_fee=0&pinned_post_locator=urn:asset:3ea3bfbc-0f46-4871-a440-5ffe8c3721db&pinned_post_asset_id=657979b287855b2dac7d42b6&pinned_post_type=share

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121491066#Comment_121491066

”Israel's basic law defines it as a Jewish state. A Jewish state for a Jewish people, just like Northern Ireland defined itself as a Protestant state for a Protestant people.”

Is this analogy accurate? Many Jews express themselves in terms of ethnicity and culture, especially secular Jews. Judaism is the religion and would probably be the more accurate term to use if one is going compare it to other religions like Protestantism. One can be British and/or a Unionist and be a Catholic too.

Snooker Loopy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121491587#Comment_121491587

The reality of everyday life was what made Northern Ireland a Protestant state for a Protestant people. Recognising that does not equal "good Republican" (a clear reference to Slab Murphy and to tar me as of his ilk). It means you recognise the bleedin' obvious. Like John Hume did. See what I think of the Provos in my posting history.

Hamas were a reaction to decades of Israeli brutality, just like the Provos were a reaction to decades of Unionist oppression. Hamas were openly fomented and primed by Israel in an effort to destroy the cause of Palestinian statehood. Israel enabled Hamas's funding. The people who enabled Hamas are in power right now in Israel.

https://theintercept.com/2018/02/19/hamas-israel-palestine-conflict/

https://twitter.com/haaretzcom/status/1711329340804186619

https://www.seattletimes.com/nation-world/buying-quiet-inside-the-israeli-plan-that-propped-up-hamas/

Allowing the payments — billions of dollars over roughly a decade — was a gamble by Netanyahu that a steady flow of money would maintain peace in Gaza, the eventual launching point of the Oct. 7 attacks, and keep Hamas focused on governing, not fighting.

The Qatari payments, while ostensibly a secret, have been widely known and discussed in the Israeli news media for years. Netanyahu’s critics disparage them as part of a strategy of “buying quiet,” and the policy is in the middle of a ruthless reassessment following the attacks. Netanyahu has lashed back at that criticism, calling the suggestion that he tried to empower Hamas “ridiculous.”

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121491835#Comment_121491835

Unlike you, I think neither the PIRA nor Hamas were a justifiable reaction to anything. Both should be condemned unequivocally.

Snooker Loopy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121491791#Comment_121491791

In Northern Ireland "Protestant state for a Protestant people" was exactly interchangeable with "Unionist state for a Unionist people" or British state for a British people". Protestant state for a Protestant people did not include, say, the Lutherans of Sweden.

But what it did mean was that if you were the minority you kept your fcuking head down or else. It's the same inside Israel. What goes on in Gaza and the West Bank is a whole other kettle of fish to what happened in Northern Ireland, bad as Northern Ireland was and to an extent remains.

Snooker Loopy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121491840#Comment_121491840

Another lie thrown in there that " you (I) think the actions of the PIRA and/or Hamas were justifiable." Fairly pathetic stuff on your part.

Neither the actions of the PIRA nor Hamas were/are justified. But if you decide to suppress discussion of the underlying reasons why such groups emerged in the first place, you are doomed to repeat the cycle. Fundamental injustice if perpetuated long enough will usually lead to such groups emerging. Address the fundamental injustice and you lessen the likelihood of such groups emerging and you lessen the likelihood they will attract support of they do emerge.

Making the same mistakes over and over and over again will lead to the same outcomes.

Very basic stuff.

brickster69

A wild interview just now on Sky for 10 minutes. No wonder most the world consider them a pariah.

https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1734982762208113039

Snooker Loopy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121491946#Comment_121491946

They actually make apartheid South Africa look positively benign by comparison, which is some feat.

South Africa were banned from most international sport for decades, even rugby relented in the end and ostracised them.

Israel will produce a shiny pop act for the Eurovision in May and they'll be all smiles and leotards and white teeth and lovely make up and pink puffer jackets and we'll all be told to cheer and vote for them and believe that this is a perfectly normal country like any other. Pass the effing sick bucket.

SeanW

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121490296#Comment_121490296

Since Leftists like to make everything about race, the data I provided demonstrate that the majority of Israeli Jews have Middle Eastern ancestry. If "white people" are uniquely guilty of settler-colonialism wherever they go, then Israeli Jews are only 30% full blooded white Jews. Furthermore, support for the right wing parties in Israel such as Likud primarily come from the Mizrahi community - as the white Jews such as the Ashkenazi minority tend to vote Left. Again this bears repeating, but in all 80% of Israeli Jews of all backgrounds were born there.

Israeli Jews are not "committing genocide against the native population" they ARE the native population, at least in part. But hey, I'm sure you can blame all that on "white supremacy" or some such nonsense.

As to your repeated claim that supporters of Israel's right to exist engage in "anti-Semitism" again, the data don't agree with that. It bears repeating that a plurality of the worlds Jews live in Israel or the Disputed Territories - most of whom are native to the Middle East - and that there are 7.4 million of them in all. And and all of them would be gravely imperilled if the State of Israel were to be weakened, by people who want to "drive the Jews into the sea" or Leftists like to say "From the River to the Sea."

You cannot propose to gravely endanger 7.4 million Jews and then be surprised if someone thinks you're an anti-Semite. It is complete nonsense.

Snooker Loopy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121492017#Comment_121492017

That post is a load of hot air. Remember what this exchange was about: the anti-Semitic trope that "Jews = Israel".

Jews do not equal Israel.

You still maintain they do.

This is prima facie anti-Semitism.

TokTik

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121475581#Comment_121475581

Does taking photos and publishing then help in the fight against suicide bombers too??

Snooker Loopy

Palestinians have been saying it for weeks because its been happening for months. Now Israel is literally telling you its bombing is indiscriminate. They aren't hiding their aim of obliterating Gaza and the people within it. They haven't hid it since the start.

https://twitter.com/Ha_Matar/status/1734984350343537090

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121491946#Comment_121491946

She is unbelievably argumentative and combative for a so called "diplomat". She sounds more like a member of Netanyahu's party.

SeanW

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121492024#Comment_121492024

My post was facts. You cannot deny the facts. I never said "Jews = Israel" I said that a plurality of Jews are Israeli. You or your side also brought race into it (surprise, surprise) and claimed that Israeli Jews were settler colonialists and from European/American cities despite the fact that the majority of them are of partial or full Middle Eastern ancestry and by far the vast majority in all are born in Israel.

You cannot actively work to gravely endanger 7.4 million Jews and then be surprised if you get called an anti-Semite.

TokTik

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121476618#Comment_121476618

Let’s see what the chief rabbi of the IDF said when asked in 2002, if it was ok for the IDF to rape women/girls. Take it away Eyal…

as part of maintaining fitness for the army and the soldiers’ morale during fighting, it is permitted to “breach” the walls of modesty and “satisfy the evil inclination by lying with attractive Gentile women against their will, out of consideration for the difficulties faced by the soldiers and for overall success.”

Snooker Loopy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121492105#Comment_121492105

You engaged with me because you objected to me saying that the trope you used that conflates Jews worldwide with Israel is an anti-Semitic one.

Since then you've been performing ever more spectacular mental gymnastics to weasel out of the fact you used an anti-Semitic trope, usually repeating the trope in the process.

With "friends" like you, Jews hardly need enemies.

dmcdona

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121492105#Comment_121492105

Genuine question. Can I ask what you mean by a "plurality of Jews"?

SeanW

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121492162#Comment_121492162

A plurality means the largest grouping, but not an outright majority. There are some complexities regarding the criteria and the basis for various estimates, but it's likely that the largest national cohort of Jews in the world lives in Israel.

Jews - Wikipedia

Snooker Loopy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121492084#Comment_121492084

Pretty much all Israel's talking heads be they spokespeople, politicians, diplomats or general boosters in the media sphere are highly aggressive to the point it's often pretty much impossible to have a civil discussion with them. They shout, they interrupt, they heckle, they accuse, they recite empty slogans endlessly. They "gish gallop", ie. fire out unsubstantiated nonsense and allegations and bogus "facts" like that sewage hose on the truck fired sewage in Father Ted's face. It's a concerted strategy very reminiscent of the American right-wing and also the British right-wing.

The American right-wing and the British right wing are both full of utter bullshlt and so are Israel's speakers. Being highly aggressive in the manner I've described is a strategy you only need when your position is a bullshlt one.

TokTik

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121476755#Comment_121476755

Unless of course you are a Somali Jew, in which case you’ll be sterilised on arrival without your knowledge, to keep racial purity. I’m fairly sure there was another maniacal figure from history that was into that too. Haaretz broke this story too.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/israel-gave-birth-control-to-ethiopian-jews-without-their-consent-8468800.html

Danzy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121491985#Comment_121491985

An Arab supreme court judge recently sentenced an ex Israeli pm.

Apartheid State, don't make us laugh.

Snooker Loopy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121492201#Comment_121492201

There were Catholic judges in Northern Ireland too. What's your point?

South Africa even picked the odd coloured player for the Springboks in the apartheid era.

What Israel is is actually far worse than what apartheid South Africa was. At least apartheid South Africa didn't pen 2.3 million people into a strip of land less than half the size of Louth and then bomb them into oblivion.

What Israel is doing is comparable to what the Nazis did to the Jewish ghettoes in Europe.

https://www.newyorker.com/news/the-weekend-essay/in-the-shadow-of-the-holocaust?utm_source=nl&utm_brand=tny&utm_mailing=TNY_Daily_120923&utm_campaign=aud-dev&utm_medium=email&utm_term=tny_daily_digest&bxid=63f928d318b08a53f202acd6&cndid=73020245&hasha=f9f32c671f3e231b94498e6795451442&hashb=246f1d11785dd42c88a52b707816bacef197553d&hashc=833907525a7ed9da50588421f9a328c4ffe67eebcd2f30e04f9a17ca5f772e12&esrc=MARTECH_ORDERFORM&mbid=CRMNYR012019

For the last seventeen years, Gaza has been a hyperdensely populated, impoverished, walled-in compound where only a small fraction of the population had the right to leave for even a short amount of time—in other words, a ghetto. Not like the Jewish ghetto in Venice or an inner-city ghetto in America but like a Jewish ghetto in an Eastern European country occupied by Nazi Germany. In the two months since Hamas attacked Israel, all Gazans have suffered from the barely interrupted onslaught of Israeli forces. Thousands have died. On average, a child is killed in Gaza every ten minutes. Israeli bombs have struck hospitals, maternity wards, and ambulances. Eight out of ten Gazans are now homeless, moving from one place to another, never able to get to safety.

The term “open-air prison” seems to have been coined in 2010 by David Cameron, the British Foreign Secretary who was then Prime Minister. Many human-rights organizations that document conditions in Gaza have adopted the description. But as in the Jewish ghettoes of Occupied Europe, there are no prison guards—Gaza is policed not by the occupiers but by a local force. Presumably, the more fitting term “ghetto” would have drawn fire for comparing the predicament of besieged Gazans to that of ghettoized Jews. It also would have given us the language to describe what is happening in Gaza now. The ghetto is being liquidated.

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121492183#Comment_121492183

It's weird to watch. I'm not sure I've ever seen a serving ambassador be so loud, aggressive and argumentative in a TV interview before (and she's like this in every interview she gives).

brickster69

All of the interview

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FYOv_Jb8cA0

Snooker Loopy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121492256#Comment_121492256

Tzipi Hotovely openly supports annexation and apartheid. She has been on the record about this for over a decade.

A disgusting piece of work.

Snooker Loopy

Netanyahu in 2014. Why does the US give unconditional military aid to a country which opposes the US's stated policy on the region?

https://www.timesofisrael.com/netanyahu-finally-speaks-his-mind/#ixzz392DqMJCW

Quote

He made explicitly clear that he could never, ever, countenance a fully sovereign Palestinian state in the West Bank. He indicated that he sees Israel standing almost alone on the frontlines against vicious Islamic radicalism, while the rest of the as-yet free world does its best not to notice the march of extremism. And he more than intimated that he considers the current American, John Kerry-led diplomatic team to be, let’s be polite, naive.

Quote

Netanyahu has stressed often in the past that he doesn’t want Israel to become a binational state — implying that he favors some kind of accommodation with and separation from the Palestinians. But on Friday he made explicit that this could not extend to full Palestinian sovereignty. Why? Because, given the march of Islamic extremism across the Middle East, he said, Israel simply cannot afford to give up control over the territory immediately to its east, including the eastern border — that is, the border between Israel and Jordan, and the West Bank and Jordan.

Quote

The priority right now, Netanyahu stressed, was to “take care of Hamas.” But the wider lesson of the current escalation was that Israel had to ensure that “we don’t get another Gaza in Judea and Samaria.” Amid the current conflict, he elaborated, “I think the Israeli people understand now what I always say: that there cannot be a situation, under any agreement, in which we relinquish security control of the territory west of the River Jordan.”

volchitsa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121492238#Comment_121492238

Northern Ireland, for all its faults, was not an apartheid state - that's why you could have Catholic judges passing sentence on Protestants. Something that you couldn't have in an actual apartheid state like South Africa.

There may have been the odd "coloured player" in the Springboks: but were they African, or only classified as "Coloured"? They had a very different, and preferable, status in apartheid SA compared to black Africans. Either way though, that's nothing like having a black person passing judgment on a white person. That couldn't happen under apartheid, and doesn't happen in Israel, where Arab judges have become not just a judge at a small court, like the Catholic judges in Northern Ireland in the Stormont era, but even sit on the Supreme Court.

As for Gaza being like the Jewish ghettos - saying it doesn't make it true: Gaza has four and five star hotels, https://www.tripadvisor.com/Hotels-g6697294-zff12-Gaza-Hotels.html, beachfront residences and modern, well-stocked shopping centres.

It was funny to see some of the very same people on Twitter who'd been posting on how awful conditions in Gaza were before the war, then posting photos of the terrible damage Israel had done destroying a beautiful, modern shopping centre - with no apparent awareness of the contradiction.

It's crazy to compare Gaza to the Nazi ghettos where conditions were deliberately atrocious.

(I know they're atrocious now, but that's as a result of Hamas' attacks. Whatever one thinks of Israel's response to them, that's still not comparable to the ghettos, which were intended to harm Jews, just because they were Jews.

Snooker Loopy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121492363#Comment_121492363

The amount of killings by Israel in Gaza just since October 7th is well on course to exceed the total amount of deaths from political violence in South Africa between 1948 and 1994 (21,000) if indeed it has not already exceeded it.

Apartheid was evil. But even that horrific regime never did what Israel is doing now.