Hamas strike on Israel - mod warning in OP updated 19/10/23

deirdremf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121217973#Comment_121217973

If you were Israeli do you think you would condemn the war crimes that Israel has committed, not just now but since the state came into being - let's start with the Nakba. Not forgetting the Stern gang and Irgun.

Would you call for the return of the displaced Palestinians? Would you call for their property to be returned to them and for reparations to be made to them? We are talking of many millions of affected people here BTW.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121218018#Comment_121218018

Nothing again to be said about the Israeli children who suffered and are suffering after being kidnapped.

As expected.

tayto lover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121218023#Comment_121218023

Your fake veil from yesterday has slipped. Shame on you. I and many others have condemned the Hamas violence and killing of innocents and you well know that.

Gatling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121217766#Comment_121217766

17 old Olds shot while attacking Israeli forces

clampedusa

Wonder can a paramotor make it across the English channel.

25-30kms isnt it.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121218028#Comment_121218028

Have another go there at reading the post you quoted

Homelander

This thread could go on for 1,000 pages and some people would still treat it like a simplistic black and white issue when it's absolutely not. What Hamas did was utterly barbaric, equally Israel's heavy handed responses are far too indiscriminate given the urban density of Gaza.

I don't know what the solution is, it's an absolute nightmare. The fact that Hamas is an ISIS-like fundamentalist group in control of Gaza makes a solution extremely difficult.

A majority of Palestinians (and obviously Hamas) want Israel completely removed from historic Palestine. How do you reach realistic compromise on that?

Also I have to ask what is the root cause of the obsession with Palestine in particular? I'm not saying their plight isn't worth talking about, far from it.

But you barely hear a peep about the continued brutality Turkey is inflicting on the Kurds, and Turkey's literally at the edge of the EU. Why?

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121218032#Comment_121218032

And lest we forget the heroic defense of IDF against the senior Hamas leader Mohammed Tamimi

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-65812442

tayto lover

The EU and the USA etc should demand a ceasefire if they had any decency at all. Crimes against children are not war.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121218053#Comment_121218053

Yeah but they can't do that because they haven't called Ukraine child murderers yet

(I don't understand it either but apparently that's the logic)

clampedusa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121218043#Comment_121218043

Do something EU.

- ok. (Does something).

Supranational, interfering, 4th reich.

thomas 123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121218053#Comment_121218053

The US is sending weapons and money as we speak. I don't understand why at all considering how well they have funded Israel to date - what is the threat here today at this stage?

The way I see it, the IDF got caught lacking; small arms, rockets, and melee weapons(Used disgustingly I might add) and say for arguments sake 2000-3000 Hamas scumbags crossed into Israel - many attacking innocents and taking hostages and committing proper disgusting acts .

Now that Israel has re-secured the fence area and called up its reservists what more role should the EU or the US be playing here? Is the immediate threat not quelled or at least quelled to a level that Israel can handle itself?

Why is a US carrier group sitting off the coast of Gaza? Hamas don't have jets or even the capability to bring one down it seems?

Are they afraid this is going to draw in Iran and Maybe even Egypt?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121218062#Comment_121218062

Oh give it a rest mate would you 😂

you’re making bullshit arguments out of things I never said to make some sort of point yet you still deflect.

I said and I’ll repeat it for you again and read it slowly this time:

You wouldn’t see this child murder hysteria in the Ukraine/russia thread like you do here. If you chose to support one side or another you could be called a plethora of names, but supporting child murder would not be something you’d be accused of.

Look at this thread! Almost every post has children mentioned somehow & predictably not much mention of the Israeli children.

Just the poor Palestinians. As usual of course, nothing changes there. Of course the only right answer is to decry Israel no matter what anything else makes you a supporter of it 🙄

so what is to be said about the Israelis who were killed at a dance party? Or the kids who were kidnapped?

Israel are made out to be the big boogey man here, but I tell ya what, I have yet to see any reports of IDF driving naked women around in the back of their trucks and raping them on camera.

Hummingbird Project

So were the borders cut off and Netanyahu bombed them anyway? Was there any evacuation even for half a day after the terrorist attacks? I think there was a half day window for the Gazans to get out? Is that correct? Who cut off the borders Egypt? It’s a sad sad situation that has come to a grave end.

ArthurDayne

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121217927#Comment_121217927

I do think there is a feature of how the Palestinian struggle has morphed over the years that people who push the unfettered "they are freedom fighters" line tend to overlook. That is the fact that the ideological focus of their struggle has shifted quite significantly away from secularism and towards Islamism. Where once the PLO seemed to fit quite well into the same narrative as the oft-romanticised struggles of European groups like the IRA, ETA, Baader Meinhof etc, Hamas have replaced the PLO and their actions of last weekend are now more reminiscent to Europeans of the almost nihilistic manner in which Islamic fundamentalist militants perpetrate violence.

To be clear, I don't think it negates either the very obvious grievances of the Palestinians, nor justifies Israeli brutality in return, but it should open eyes to the fact that Hamas are not on some great quest that can be cleanly compartmentalised in a "freedom fight" box where the actors strive to avoid acts of barbarism or regret those that do occur — but are very much driven by a fundamental Islamic agenda that actually encourages barbarism as being virtuous.

Again, this is not in dismissal of Israeli wrongdoing before anyone leaps on the post.

deirdremf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121218015#Comment_121218015

Stating that they have a good functioning society is really not that controversial as it is an observable reality

There you go, you have done it again, completely ignoring the well-documented facets of that country which conclusively prove that it is a discriminatory society even within "Israel proper".

What is really needed is not the politics of the latest atrocity but a full understanding of the roots of the problem. Of course, many people want to ignore the background (I admit you have slightly nuanced your support for Israel).

One aspect that is generally ignored is while we acknowledge that Gaza is an immense ghetto, "Israel proper" is one too. The zionist project gathered together as many jews as possible in a small area and they now feel trapped there. It's an unenviable position for them in many ways, and in the long term untenable. Statistics are not easy to find, but a great many of the well-educated younger jews from a European background have emigrated. I have read that as many as one million may be in the USA, but cannot find conclusive evidence of the numbers anywhere. There are many, many young Israelis all over Europe, including in Ireland.

Overall then, Israel has IMO hit the rocks - no more big pools of potential immigrants; large-scale emigration; and constant war. Not a great future in store for them.

tayto lover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121218081#Comment_121218081

The US are obviously making sure that no other factions outside Israel get involved until Israel finishes Hamas. The trouble is that many hundreds of innocents will die in the meantime and nobody seems to give a hoot about them. Collateral damage so to speak. Then in 10/20 years or less another Hamas forms which will be worse than the last and - Rinse and Repeat.

deirdremf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121218007#Comment_121218007

Is this more hasbara disinformation, or can you provide proof of some sort that this has happened?

If not, I call bullshit.

I.am.Putins.raging.bile.duct

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121217614#Comment_121217614

Ya it's time Israel called the other Arab nations bluff and ask them to give up some land to let them settle. They absolutely wouldn't because they hate the Palestinians and only use them to virtue signal.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121218107#Comment_121218107

Hamas have mass murdered whole families, including killing children in front of parents. They've massacred partygoers with abandon.

Why do you believe that Hamas suddenly develops a moral compass when it comes to rape?

I would put nothing past Hamas.

TedBundysDriver

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121217919#Comment_121217919

The ballot box is where you will go if you don't want SF in power. "Action to prevent"?? Sounds like you don't believe in democracy.

Burty330

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121218094#Comment_121218094

The borders are always cut off. There is no in or out even during peacetime. Gaza is an open air prison

Gatling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121218107#Comment_121218107

Are you looking for actual videos to show it's actually happening, define proof of what you're looking for exactly to prove it's not happening,

People were raped and killed on Saturday what makes you think that they won't be raping their kidnapp victims

deirdremf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121218138#Comment_121218138

That poster, and various others, are calling for ethnic cleansing. Likewhat happened in Nagorno Karabakh just a week or two ago. Azerbaidzhan got away with it, so why shouldn't Israel.

And Uncle Sam is there to make sure no one stops them.

Hamas basically went full Jihad on behalf of the Palestinian people with their actions. I doubt many Gaza civilians wanted this but they were not given a choice. They have played right into the Israel leaderships murderous hands. I cannot see how this will end well for Israel as a sitting duck amongst the Arab nations either. They will be multitudes hated after this. The scenes are horrific.

Dohnjoe

Surprised that under these circumstances, Egypt is not opening it's border for refugees. On the other hand, not surprised.

Oscar_Madison

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121218018#Comment_121218018

For the record I’m not one of those people who shout antisemitic.

And I’ll be totally honest also- while I abhor violence and war, if I were Israeli right now, I just don’t think I could do anything other than support what that government are about to do.

Yes innocent people will get killed/ but that’s war- calling it “shooting fish in a barrel” or whatever doesn’t really take away from the fact that an act of war by a terrorist group was done to another country- I can appreciate they have to “go in hard” - it’s very very sad but I don’t see any other option here.

Hopefully it will be Hamas not innocent people that will suffer but that’s down to the quality of intelligence about Hamas numbers and locations - let’s hope it’s accurate

Gatling

Hamas warn Israeli citizens of Ashkelon to leave before 5pm today 3pm our time ...

https://news.sky.com/story/israel-gaza-war-latest-hamas-palestine-sky-news-live-blog-12978800?postid=6560463#liveblog-body

Gerrymandering reborn

I think regarding the hostage situation - unfortunately Israel will have to fight fire with fire

Meaning they will have to enter Gaza and take hostages as retaliation.

This is only minute chance Israel has of freeing their abducting citizens.

Hamas = Isis

The only way Hamas will listen is if Israel trigger 'The Muslim Brotherhood effect' and show Hamas that they too have taken hostages

Igotadose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121218001#Comment_121218001

Who negotiated the 6-day war ceasefire that established Gaza? Vague memory here, UN I think? And Israel left.

Gatling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121218165#Comment_121218165

People will burn flags, chant death to Israel you know the usual thing they have been doing for decades, as Israel has had to show time and time again they are not afraid of their neighbours not even when 5 of their neighbours supported by the Kremlin invaded Israel which started the Yom Kippur war ...

Danzy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121218107#Comment_121218107

I would say there is something abnormally wrong with you, but there are quiet a few like you.

deirdremf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121218186#Comment_121218186

Israel always has hostages, and many of them are children.

In fact the whole population of Gaza are held hostage: Israel has over two million hostages there. And they murder them by the hundred every few years.

Israel has always murdered Palestinians, it was born in a bloodfest, a festival of Palestinian blood and suffering.

deirdremf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121218204#Comment_121218204

OK, no evidence then. Total hasbara bullshit.

ArthurDayne

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121218101#Comment_121218101

Oh here we go, another "Why they are entirely wrong and I am entirely right" lecture.

You say I completely ignore the discriminatory facets of Israel — well how do you know that? Does every post need a long list of disclaimers? And did I not say that the treatment of Palestinians was wrong? My statement is simply grounded in the fact that if you go to Israel it is largely similar in its basic everyday functioning to Western democracies and it is a place where you will likely experience tolerance and general prosperity — much more so than elsewhere in that region. The quality of life in Israel is again generally very good. Denying this is just stupid, but of course you've decided to ride in on a white horse to educate me on something that I already know — that Israel's functioning society belies its wrongs in dealing with Palestinians.

You know, I grew up in the North and (while it has always been, for the most part, a far far less intractable division than that of Israel-Palestine) I know a thing or two about divided societies, hatred, historical narratives of who was wronged and who did the wrongs. I grew up with it every single day — how themmuns did this and the Brits did that and how this was justified and that wasn't justified.

One thing I've learned in the course of my life is that most narratives that hail the virtue of one side of a conflict are like cheap sausages — there's some meat in there, but also a whole pile of shite. Same applies to the posts in this thread that attempt to entirely dismiss the fact that maybe, just maybe, there is room to see the good in the other side.

TedBundysDriver

Silly back and forths. There is no doubt Hamas are committing war crimes. There is no doubt Israel are committing war crimes. We don't need videos as proof posted here.

clampedusa

There should be some kind of child evacuation. Mothers too if possible. Even ww2 had the kindertransport. This can be agreed on and implemented.

Hamas are asking citizens of the Israeli city of Ashkelon to leave before 5pm (3pm our time).

"In response to the enemy’s crime of displacing our people and forcing them to flee their homes in several areas of the Gaza Strip, we give the residents of the occupied city of Ashkelon a deadline to leave it before 5pm this evening," an Al Qassam Brigades statement on social media said. 

Gatling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121218184#Comment_121218184

Sounds like your on a windup so,

It happened at the weekend and it's highly likely it's happening to women hostages as we speak,

Not sure what you expecting other than actual videos

Sudden Valley

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121218007#Comment_121218007

How exactly do they solve the situation when it just looks like it will continue as it was before. The Israelis will perhaps extend their border wall and make Gaza even smaller and more unlivable. They may weaken Hamas or have Hamas replaced by another militant Group. Israel will continue to build settlements and make the two state solution possible.

Whether on the left or the right in Israel they had done nothing for the Palestinians for years.

Oscar_Madison

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121218026#Comment_121218026

I’m concentrating on the here and now- no point in going back over the past- what happens tomorrow is all that counts now - what’s done in the past is done- both sides had chances to make peace and both sides screwed up

TheValeyard

Think Hamas can actually do anything by that 5pm deadline or is it an act of desperation thoughts?

KilOit

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121217427#Comment_121217427

Palestinians want Israel wiped off the face of the earth. how do you go to the table for discussion when that's what you're up against

Oscar_Madison

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121218097#Comment_121218097

Good post - yep there’s definitely elements of the “romanticism” of the Palestinian “freedom fighter” still around today when the situation is far more sinister -Iran is also a key player behind all of this

Tony EH

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121218184#Comment_121218184

There hasn't been any proof put forth for about 90% of the claims made on the thread.

Markus Antonius

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121217512#Comment_121217512

Any names at all of those who impress you? Give the due credit please.

Gave me a good laugh that you attribute advances in agriculture to the Jewish people

Jinglejangle69

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121218295#Comment_121218295

I wonder why that is?

hmmm let me take a wild guess….

Gerrymandering reborn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121218218#Comment_121218218

I don't think the hostages in Israel are held at gunpoint.

But Israeli hostages are being raped as we speak but this is justified by Hamas and Palestinians we it is permitted in their religion as these hostages are non-Muslim

Homelander

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121218165#Comment_121218165

Sitting ducks is not a phrase I'd use to describe Israel. In a volatile situation sure, but who is going to present any serious threat to them?

Lebanon, Jordan, Syria and Egypt have absolutely zero interest in fighting Israel.

The only credible threats against Israel are Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran by proxy. But none of those challenges present the vaguest conventional threat to Israel as a state.

Not you but another poster yesterday was claiming that the IDF is a weak fighting force and was actually lauding Hezbollah as somehow capable of putting a serious challenge to them. Regardless of your personal thoughts on Israel as a country, that sort of nonsense is squarely the territory of projecting ludicrious internal fantasy.

Tony EH

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121218295#Comment_121218295

If there's one party involved in this Middle Eastern conflict that's getting "wiped of the face of the earth", it's Palestine. Slowly, but surely. And nobody has been able to do anything serious about it, because the US veto every UN resolution on illegal Jewish settlements on Palestinian land.