Hamas strike on Israel - mod warning in OP updated 19/10/23

Hummingbird Project

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121218162#Comment_121218162

I think you’re being disingenuous there. Uncle Sam is there to ensure nobody exterminates Israel. It did not participate in or condone any war crimes. To say the two positions are linked and that it enables war crimes is misleading of you.

Sudden Valley

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121218311#Comment_121218311

Yeah Israel is under no existential threats from its neighbours, with the strength of its army and its nukes. It is probably the most comfortable with its neighbors (apart from Lebanon) thenit has been in year. It just want to enjoy its peace, have the Gazans penned in, continue to build its settlements and continue to ignore the Palestinian problem.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121218302#Comment_121218302

Which is ironic, given that there's no evidence for your claim at all.

Gatling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121218326#Comment_121218326

This is unfortunately what we've allowed to happen the UN have been a lame duck for years, America will veto one solution, Russia will veto another solution,France , Germany,UK and China are the same,

There's no point anymore to the UN other than money,

TedBundysDriver

The amount of military hardware Israel is bringing to the border area is absolutely staggering. The innocents in Gaza won't stand a chance and the western world will just stand by and shrug it's shoulders.

Also now reading reports of white phosphorus being used in the Al Karama Towers area of Gaza by Israel. Add that to their long war crimes list.

Reports now in that Israel is expanding their mobilisation of reservists from 300,000 to 360,000.

whisky_galore

The irony of the US providing arms and support for a country occupied by an aggressor while simultaneously providing arms and support to an occupying aggressor.

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121218107#Comment_121218107

Rape has always been used as a weapon of war and I doubt very much that Hamas are more civilised, or caring about women's rights then any other group engaged in conflicts.

Just because you haven't seen 'proof' doesn't mean it isn't happening, you can be sure it is, 100%

thomas 123

I think but everyone would benefit if we say "Hearing/Seeing reports" that we share a link of report as long as it is within the rules of the thread ie no NSFW videos - it adds credibility to what's being said!

Sudden Valley

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121218379#Comment_121218379

The UN is just a means whereby large countries can make their opinions known about important events. It was never a means to force rules upon them. It does piss off big countries to be seen as unpopular at the UN so not a total waste.

Tony EH

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121218379#Comment_121218379

The problem is that the US want Israel to act as their hard man in the region, should anything kick off there. So they turn a blind eye to the fact that Israel has stolen and continues to steal their neighbours land, while corralling millions of people into an open air prison camp the size of Louth, which is shrinking all the time. Israel are illegal controllers of foreign land and until the international community are one in condemning Israel's actions in Palestine, there will be no future settlement to the issues that have been plaguing the area for decades.

There has to be an acknowledgement somewhere along the line that Palestine has a right to their own determination before anything can move forward.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121218403#Comment_121218403

ignore them they were offered proof but it’s not the type they wanted.

Gatling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121218397#Comment_121218397

The worse part in that irony is the US is supplying very much limited resources to one in dribs and drabs while the other they will go for broke to support and supply them

Tony EH

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121218397#Comment_121218397

Realpolitik.

o1s1n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121218223#Comment_121218223

What level of evidence would you accept?

ArthurDayne

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121217427#Comment_121217427

"There is noone ready to have a mature conversation about Israel and it’s behaviour for decades."

Well doesn't that apply to Hamas as well though, along with those who back them (like Iran), who do not appear to be pushing a conciliatory realistic solution but are instead hellbent on seeing the downfall of Israel?

As has been rightly pointed out in the media, the timing and severity of this attack at a time where Israel and Saudi Arabia were making inroads towards the normalisation of their relations does appear to reek of Iranian influence. It does seem to me that a greater appreciation of the reality that Israel can't just commit national suicide is needed on the part of certain sectors of the Arab world, which might go some way to easing Israel's security concerns. But there still appears to be those who believe that the ball is only ever in Israel's court.

thomas 123

Sky News

https://news.sky.com/story/israel-gaza-war-latest-hamas-palestine-sky-news-live-blog-12978800#6558219

"Fears are growing across Lebanon that a front may soon open up on the southern border with Israel.

People here are glued to their TVs watching for updates about what's happening in Gaza. 

Schools across the south have been closed for the foreseeable future.

On the roads heading north from the border, there's heavy traffic as people move away from areas that could become a warzone. 

It's very hard to predict what will happen next but the prospect of escalation is very real. "

Hummingbird Project

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121218233#Comment_121218233

Ah the repentant sinner. Thinking it’s ok for SF to walk into power now they have turned a leaf and there has been inter national agreement approved by the Irish people about their atrocities.

The unfunny thing is there has been people slaving their whole lives to keep this economy afloat without a voice to oppose this charade. They keep SF and their voters in free houses with multiple children to outnumber the workers who pay for them.

Unfortunately, we hat narrative you speak about, the subsequent division of Ireland and the so called troubles which were just murderous thugs satiating their appetite for blood and power, was based on a false narrative. Independence was indeed coming before Pearce et al took up arms and seized power and divided this country.

The country wouldn’t be divided if he didn’t instigate his power grab. Now those people satiating their vanity by being in the limelight of international news carrying out international ageeement wants to forbode their sins and usurp the law keepers.

Well unfortunately, events have come to a precipice and for the extinction of those hard workers, business owners, et al, we are going to stand up for ourselves and make sure this false remorse of SF doesn’t go unexposed.

Let me ask you this- do you condemn every act of terror SF IRA carried out in the troubles and renounce SF politically? Do you condemn their alliance with Hamas, ETA et al? If you do you can work your way from the bottom up in the Republic but not take power now.

Gatling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121218417#Comment_121218417

Totally agree with you,

But every day this conflict rolls on and not just what happened at the weekend and the reprisals the further and further that option for 2 Separate states gets ,it's practically non existent now , Israel won't give back what they have stolen and we can't take from anywhere else to give to Palestine,and even at that were still going to see attacks against both states and off to perpetual war again,

ArthurDayne

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121218456#Comment_121218456

I'm not quite sure I understand your post or what specific points you are taking me up on here.

Hummingbird Project

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121218478#Comment_121218478

Apologies meant for northern Lilly

Danzy

The idea of 2 States is a non runner. It was dead before last weekend, it's even worse than dead now.

There was no way Israel would allow a return to 67 borders either, it puts too many of their population in firing line.

Do people honestly believe that a Palestinian state would ever change from calling for the extermination of the Jews, to focus on it's own prosperity and well being, me neither.

Ardillaun

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121217059#Comment_121217059

I’d say he is done once the crisis is over. The guy at the top has to take responsibility for such massive failures of intelligence etc.

ittakestwo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121214648#Comment_121214648

Their cause being freedom?

Palestinians reason to fight is as legitimate as you can get.

tayto lover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121218378#Comment_121218378

Genocide

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121218513#Comment_121218513

Hamas aren't "fighting for freedom"; they're fighting against the existence of the Israeli state.

Palestinians didn't launch this war, Hamas did.

Tony EH

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121218457#Comment_121218457

It's not really about what Israel will give back at this point. It's about getting them to not take more land off of the Palestinians. Palestine is in a fight for its very existence here and as long as the rest of the world sits back and says that what Israel is doing is ok, even in a tacit way, Israel will continue to do what she's been doing for decades, which is strangling Palestine and ethnically cleansing the region. As long as they have the sugar daddy relationship with the US, there will be no resolution here.

The problem then gets compounded when the extremists come to the fore, and they will, because the extremists are usually the ones to try and spearhead something when, seemingly, there are no other options left open.

ittakestwo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121218526#Comment_121218526

Really?? I think thier objective is for a state for palestinians?

Sudden Valley

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121218499#Comment_121218499

So what is the solution then? Keep the Palestinians in what amounts to being their prisons for the next few years? Israel has been kicking this can down the road for far too long to their own detriment. They have no moderates on the other side now. They inflict pain and suffering on the Palestinians like never before and still haven't taken the fight out of them.

Ce he sin

That's one of the odder comments I've seen here, and that's saying something.

Care to explain why "Jewish" and "agriculture" are in your mind mutually incompatible?

timmyntc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121218526#Comment_121218526

They are fighting against a state that routinely subjugates and indiscriminately murders Palestinian men women and children.

Even in times of "peace" with no hamas operations ongoing, IDF and Israeli settlers still kill Palestinian children. There was already a 3 figure death toll this year before this attack kicked off

Israel is a terrorist state, so anyone fighting against the IDF is a freedom fighter in my book.

Gatling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121218513#Comment_121218513

The problem is they want to end Israel and Israel wants to end Palestine,and both sides Think they will be victorious in the end

JC01

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121218186#Comment_121218186

Won’t have any effect, Hamas would sacrifice 100k innocent Palestinians just to get the media coverage. They’re a terror group only interested in self enrichment and power. They not only knew full well but actively counted on a heavy handed Israeli response to the atrocities they committed over the weekend to ensure a steady supply of money, weapons and volunteers for the next few years as Muslims seek retribution for what’s about to unfold.

Long Sean Silver

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121217612#Comment_121217612

let me just say i condemn totally the awful, barbaric, inhuman violence of Hamas.

but Israel has effectively turned the Gaza Strip into a concentration camp, and are now setting about eradicating its' trapped inhabitants. But somehow Israel and her supporters cannot see the irony of this?!!

it's mad.

Danzy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121218542#Comment_121218542

A Palestinian State in the West of Egypt, or anywhere.

The population relocated to neighbouring countries.

What should have been, could have been are immaterial to now.

What is the long term resolution, it's not an Israel and a Palestinian state. It's not the right to return, both of those end in Israelis being exterminated down the road and here is the big challenge, for right or wrong, they are not going to allow that.

ceadaoin.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121218513#Comment_121218513

Their cause is the destruction of Israel. They won't accept a Palestinian state through peace talks etc. They want Israel eradicated

tayto lover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121218551#Comment_121218551

Exactly as I see it. Hamas commits heinous crimes and Israel responds with even worse firepower. Thus ensuring more volunteers will enlist with Hamas for future battles. Rinse and repeat.

Tony EH

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121218576#Comment_121218576

Palestinians deserve the right to their own self determination ON THEIR OWN LAND. Not in Egypt or anywhere else. But on the their land. Land which Israel steals.

What you're proposing is merely ethic cleansing.

Danzy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121218507#Comment_121218507

He probably is done, the Defense Minister will probably be his replacement and have a landslide victory.

ittakestwo

I see this war getting even more dirty. Israeli around the world will become targets. Israeli maybe able to defend citizens in Israeli but impossible to defend them in foreign countries. Israeli like palestinians will also have freedom of travel taken away.

Danzy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121218593#Comment_121218593

In the absence of an ideal world what else is going to happen.

timmyntc

Israelis now using banned phosphorus ammunition on Gaza.

Also many many strikes killing families and destroying homes south of Gaza city too. For anyone claiming that rest of the strip is safe - that is a blatant lie. Israelis are indiscriminately bombing everything in the Gaza strip.

So far over 187000 people displaced in Gaza due to their homes being damaged or destroyed. That is not "precision strikes", that is ethnic cleansing.

JC01

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121218523#Comment_121218523

Well if the Israelis wanted to commit genocide they’re doing a poor job of it, the Palestinian population has roughly doubled in the last 20 years.

Since we all know Isreal is militarily and technologically capable of committing genocide and since according to every pro-Palestinian person I’ve ever heard they do what they want since the Americans love them then why do you think this is?

Is it possible the situation is a tad more nuanced than you claim?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121218613#Comment_121218613

The videos circulating on social media regarding white phosphorus are fake; clips taken from other conflicts in the past and presented as if that's what Israel are doing in Gaza.

It's propaganda.

Gatling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121218613#Comment_121218613

No they are not using banned weapons

Sudden Valley

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121218576#Comment_121218576

i think forced relocation is considered a war crime. So that is not an option.

The Palestinian refugees caused such problems in Jordan a few years back that i dont think Egypt or any other Arab country would take them on voluntarily.

If no two state solution is possible then I think Israel has to treat them as Israeli citizens and not currently as its prisoners'.

ceadaoin.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121218599#Comment_121218599

Dont kid yourself. All Jews will be targets, not just Israelis. It's already happening.

Long Sean Silver

let's forget about the morality of this. i fear that's a lost cause.

does Benny really think that murdering women & children will make Israel more secure/less insecure? can he really be that deluded?

does he really think the surviving Palestinians will just pack up their few meagre belongings, and say "oh! well let's just move on somewhere else. never did like this awful place anyhow. the Jews are welcome to it"

on what parallel universe does Benny think that's gonna happen?

Gatling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121218640#Comment_121218640

Well if they become Israeli would that not be a war crime too and denying their right to self-determination?

pjohnson

If Hamas are fighting for freedom for the Palestinan people then why do they use those Palestinan people as human shields?

They fight to slaughter Israeli's nothing else. The Palestinan shields they hide behind are useful for propaganda and victimhood.