Hamas strike on Israel - mod warning in OP updated 19/10/23

timmyntc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121218636#Comment_121218636

Then why has it been geolocated to a district within gaza?

Raoul Duke III

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121218526#Comment_121218526

Hamas are Palestinians.

tayto lover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121218620#Comment_121218620

Just wait awhile. Its starting.

screamer

Watching footage on sky news of a women and her little baby and child being taken hostage by Hamas made me just cry this morning. I cannot abide cruelty to children, helpless little babies. I don’t care what side you’re on, that is not justifiable no matter what land is disputed. No land is worth a human life, Jewish, Palestinian, it doesn’t matter. I hope this can be stopped, slaughter of innocent people is wrong no matter what your goal.

Danzy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121218640#Comment_121218640

The Israeli population will look at the issue of forces relocation or their own extermination at the hands of a culture that views it as having a divine command to wipe them out.

They won't give a flying 789k, the ones who would have been against last week view it as too moderate an approach now.

Sudden Valley

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121218656#Comment_121218656

I have never heard not granting a people their independence as being classed as a war crime. Israel seems to perform some actions that can be classed as close to war crimes but I dont think this meets the definition.

tayto lover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121218680#Comment_121218680

100% agree with you. But alas others don't. The suffering of the innocents is horrific.

timmyntc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121218688#Comment_121218688

They will not be granted Israeli citizenship because the Israelis operate an apartheid regime and do not want Palestinians having any say in country's governance.

ArthurDayne

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121218544#Comment_121218544

I just cannot see how any rational person can still, even now, view the conflict with this level of black and white absolutism.

Not only that, none of this absolutism is actually conducive to Palestinian freedom at all. The only path to lasting and peaceful freedom for Palestine is one that is based on mutual rationality and ideological sacrifice on both sides of that divide. Shooting children indiscriminately and parading the lifeless corpse of a young innocent tattoo artist with jeering and spitting are not the acts of glorious freedom fighters — it is bloodlust.

These men will win nothing for Palestine, nor in the long run will Israel's counter-assault achieve anything. People will go on glorifying one side with total bias and merely encourage the conflict.

JC01

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121218679#Comment_121218679

Ohh right it’s starting now. Not once in the last 70+ years of conflict between Palestine and Israel, but now. Just as Isreal was about to sign a historic deal with Saudi that could actually lead to a dramatic reduction of tensions in the region, funny timing to launch a genocide but sure Isreal=bad right?

tayto lover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121218717#Comment_121218717

Both sides bad but only one with huge weapons who refused to let women and children out before bombing the place to smithereens.

Long Sean Silver

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121218668#Comment_121218668

i think Israel is in danger of falling into a trap. HAMAS like ISIS don't give a fig about the Palestinians, or about Muslims in general. they want to create as much problems for Jews as possible, hoping they will over-react and cause outrage amongst Muslims wordwide.

by Benny rattling on about 911 it seems to me, like Bush before him, he is about to spring the trap HAMAS have set for him and his people.

Sudden Valley

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121218705#Comment_121218705

There is two problems with the potential solution I would admit. One, the Israeli government has admitted in the past that they couldnt admit 4.9m Palestinians as citizens as it would destabilise the democracy. And two, Palestinians have never shown an inclination to want to become Israeli Citizens, not on mass anyway.

It would work in Palestinians favour though as they would have more land rights and human rights and the Israeli army would not be allowed to be as reckless with the lives of Israeli citizens. Israeli Arabs exist in Israel and have a high standard of living so it is a much better situation for them then being in this limbo that only benefits Israel.

amandstu

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121217857#Comment_121217857

"Israel is a progressive and tolerant democratic nation and a model of a good functioning society in that region. Its creation and expansion was and is wrong"

Can I pick you up on that second point?

What was wrong about its creation?

I understand a two nation state (if that is a good description) was recommended by the UN at the time.

I also understand that ,as the British mandate expired the Israeli forces declared independence and were then attacked by neighbouring Arab States.

Were the Israeli forces wrong to declare independence?

Were the Arab States wrong to attack?

Should the UK have applied for an extension of their mandate until such time as an orderly transfer of sovereignty could be guaranteed?

Should the UK have withheld recognition of the new State?

What was ,in the main wrong with the creation of the State of Israel at that time?

Ash.J.Williams

Any Irish person who decided to throw on their old Palestinian flag on the weekend of this attack needs psychiatric assistance

It's irrelevant whether you support them in general or not , your gesture means you support the weekends madness

Burty330

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121218688#Comment_121218688

There is no independence to give. Gaza if left alone would collapse within months. It's a settlement,not a country. They rely on isreal and foreign aid to keep the lights on. They use isreali currency and have a 50% rate of unemployment. The best thing for peace is to disperse and resettle the people of gaza into the middle east because they don't have a country and never did. All they are in the current situation is meat to be used for conflict.

The massive rocket attacks that Hamas threatened for 5pm in Ashkelon has started.

tayto lover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121218763#Comment_121218763

More death and destruction. This is terrible now and could escalate.

Oscar_Madison

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121218573#Comment_121218573

I’m not going to take “sides” here- both sides have committed atrocities - and indeed the Gaza Strip as a concentration camp is not just Israel’s doing - either side could have voted for peace and worked to maintain peace many years ago and they didn’t - so we are where we are- atrocity building on more atrocity - I’m not going to waste energy criticising one or indeed both sides- we all know the history and we’re now here today - shouting but but but doesn’t really do anything for me- I’ve had decades of war news thrown at me- I think I’m immune to the shock of it all at this stage- they’ll do whatever they want to do because they always have

TracyMartell

This is a good video for anyone looking for unbiased round up of what’s occurred and some of the history behind this conflict. I found it useful as someone with little knowledge on the topic

https://youtu.be/CynzeRes7mY?si=5QI9m7RXui_B2Li6

Sudden Valley

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121218762#Comment_121218762

The best thing for the Israelis maybe. Why would should the Palestinians be exiled? I understand that Israeli won the war they want to enjoy the spoils of war so want to treat the Palestinians like they were centuries ago, dispersed all around the world but I dont think this is going to happen. Lucky the English didnt do that with the Irish.

thegame983

Hamas to start executing hostages soon.

Let's hope it is a quick death.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121218593#Comment_121218593

Israelis deserve the right to their own determination ON THEIR OWN LAND. Not in Russia or Germany or anywhere else. But on their land. Land which Palestine steals.

What you're proposing is merely ethnic cleansing.

See what I did there, I reflected back at you the problem. Palestinians in the form of Hamas want to wash the Jewish state of Israel from the face of the earth, and all who live in it.

JC01

The entire Muslim world will be up in arms (literally and figuratively) at the response the Israelis are going to make. Saudi will have to be seen to “side” with the Muslim world and on doing so the deal and the thawing relations that have been ongoing the last while will be dead in the water. That’s a fairly obvious geo-political result of this Hamas attack.

Also my actual point in raising the Saudis was to another posters childish “genocide” comment. As if there weren’t dozens of reasons to call this kind of talk out the fact the Israelis have been actively pursuing better relations with certain Muslim actors in the region only further illustrates how bad the timing of this whole situation is for Israel.

JC01

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121218735#Comment_121218735

I’m thinking you’re one of those people who fixate entirely on the wrongs committed by the Israelis so I’ll stop after this but read your own comment again and look at what happened on Sunday. Can you imagine what would happen Israel if Hamas had access to the Israelis level of weaponry? Because then there actually would be the genocide you mentioned and the Israeli population sure as hell wouldn’t of doubled in the last 20 years.

nacho libre

I think the longer this war goes on the more difficult it becomes for Abbas and his cronies to keep sitting on their hands. He will be secretly hoping Hamas are rendered unable to govern Gaza quickly to take the pressure off him.

screamer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121218802#Comment_121218802

Can’t hope they might be released, that this might stop, no? Wish them a quick death, just awful commentary.

Danzy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121218782#Comment_121218782

Could escalate.

Israel have barely begun to respond and Hamas, Hezbollah et al haven't played their other cards yet, it's only getting started.

Long Sean Silver

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121218757#Comment_121218757

do you think we should get our Israeli flags out then? we could celebrate the bombing of women & children.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121218801#Comment_121218801

Given the complexity of two peoples in one land, and the religious significance of the territory for both, I believe the situation was always going to be one over the other.

Take the possibility that the Arabs won the 1948 war. They would presumably have went on to develop a successful state at the expense of the losers in the war. The roles would merely be reversed, in other words.

But Israel won that 1948 war which, by the way, began when the Arabs rejected the UN partition of Palestine - instead wanting 100% of Palestine, as indeed Hamas do today.

thegame983

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121218819#Comment_121218819

I can hope that they'll be released. But they won't be.

Their captors are not above beheading, immolation, mutilation and much, much worse.

Elmer Blooker

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121218741#Comment_121218741

I’m not sure if ISIS and their jihadist pals in Syria ( ‘rebels’ according to the media) want to cause problems for Israel.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-chief-acknowledges-long-claimed-weapons-supply-to-syrian-rebels/amp/

Long Sean Silver

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121218799#Comment_121218799

this has been happening in one guise or another since humans descended from the trees and picked up the first weapon.

but now you can sit back, enjoy a cuppa, put yer feet up and have it beamed live into your living room.

Yemeni Houthi leader has come out with a statement saying that they are prepared to enter the conflict if the US militarily supports Israel.

From Sky News:

Yemen's Houthi movement leader has said it will launch military action if the US intervenes in Gaza directly.

The group will respond by firing drones and missiles and take other military options, said Abdel-Malek al-Houthi.

"There are red lines when it comes to Gaza," he said, adding that the Houthis were ready to coordinate with other groups and intervene.

thomas 123

https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/174lmyn/gaza_idf_air_strikes_collapsing_buildings/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3

Video linked is showing a building being blown up from street level. Important to share I think - No casualties can be seen in the video I believe.

Absolutely shocking stuff - I would not advise looking through the forum that that video is from, it does not censor anything.

Ash.J.Williams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121218825#Comment_121218825

I haven't any Israeli flags personally, however if I did see Irish people running around in such flags specifically celebrating the bombing of Palestinians I would consider them equally mental

TedBundysDriver

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121218763#Comment_121218763

Most taken out by iron dome according to Israel. Bit thick of Hamas to warn the Israeli's where they are firing beforehand.

Danzy

Reports from kibbutizm that were attacked on Saturday, systemic sluaghter, rape, torture, decapitation. Including of babies.

There are 2 sides and the big one is worse, what about this and that, no civilians in Israel, solidarity, etc etc etc ad nauseam.

There must be no ability left to ever attack like this again.

If Israel do not comprehensively end this threat now, they will perish and the problem will turn to us in time.

Sudden Valley

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121218830#Comment_121218830

It can happen in places like Northern Ireland or Bosnia, with the right people in charge. It may happen alright that Palestinians are forced to leave and some other country may take them ,it just seems a very unlikely scenario to be resting the hope for peace on. To be blunt they don't want to leave and no one wants to accept them.

In the meantime Israel gets to treat part of the population under their control like dirt.

Long Sean Silver

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/20/israelis-cheer-gaza-bombing

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121218877#Comment_121218877

well said. i too possess no flags. but hang on in there Israel and her supporters have the champagne on ice.

Oscar_Madison

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121218613#Comment_121218613

ethnic cleansing is where they kill those 187000 people before they leave their homes -

markodaly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121218104#Comment_121218104

Perhaps a group can form after Hamas that will want to make peace with Israel and not want to exterminate them.

JC01

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121218729#Comment_121218729

The entire Muslim world will be up in arms (literally and figuratively) at the response the Israelis are going to make. Saudi will have to be seen to “side” with the Muslim world and on doing so the deal and the thawing relations that have been ongoing the last while will be dead in the water. That’s a fairly obvious geo-political result of this Hamas attack.

Also my actual point in raising the Saudis was to another posters childish “genocide” comment. As if there weren’t dozens of reasons to call this kind of talk out the fact the Israelis have been actively pursuing better relations with certain Muslim actors in the region only further illustrates how bad the timing of this whole situation is for Israel.

**God this site has gone very glitchy, didn’t quote your question in the first post!

amandstu

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121218830#Comment_121218830

Is that correct ?

Did the UN partition Palestine?

Or was it just a recommendation?

Whichever it was ,did the Israelis also reject it by when they declared the State of Israel?

Or did the Israeli declaration follow the lines of the UN (recommended?) partition ?

TedBundysDriver

I can't see Hamas and any other islamic jihad grouping having much success in terms of inflicting more damage on Israel in the short term tbh. Unless they have chemical weapons all they can do is aimlessly fire rockets into Israel until they run out which will cause damage yes but not on a scale to have any lasting effect. The real worry for everyone should be their ability to strike "soft targets" in the US or Europe in terms of terror attacks. Any nation that sides with Israel will be a legit target in their eyes unfortunately.

ArthurDayne

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121218752#Comment_121218752

Well, the term "wrong" was blunt — but I guess I was summarising my own view that the original concept of Zionism was (in my opinion) misguided in its attempt to simply create a nation for European Jews in the Middle East without seeing the inevitability that this would give rise to conflict (even if the historical context of the Holocaust makes that desire readily understandable and even if there existed a small number of Jews there at the time) in a place where there was a pre-existing demographic and cultural reality. But to be honest, the term "wrong" in my post was directed more so at the nature of the expansionism which accompanied the nation's development after its inception — the effective land grabbing via settlements and demolitions right up to the present day which even the White House, Israel's most important ally, has admitted being "deeply troubled" by, as recently as June of this year.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121218912#Comment_121218912

The Jews accepted the partition, and the Arabs rejected it.

Then they launched a war against the Jewish side - lost it, and the Jews declared the state of Israel.

Had the Arabs accepted the partition, they could have at least worked from there, with peace on both sides.

No deal is ever perfect. They should have accepted it. But like Hamas, they were unwilling to move an inch.

markodaly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121218499#Comment_121218499

This x100

How can one seriously put forward a 2 state solution after this?

Or even a one-state solution where Palestinians and Jews live side by side in peace?

You are in a dreamworld if you think this is a serious outcome now.

We see what a group like Hamas are capable of. Who in God's name is going to allow people like that into Israel proper to live side by side with them and like a wild dog, turn on them and wipe them out? The Jews in Israel have very long memories of pograms going back many years when their neighbours turned on them and killed them. This culminated in the Holocaust.

There is a reason why Jews want their own homeland and state because history and other peoples have treated them terribly and nearly exterminated them.

thereitisgone

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121218613#Comment_121218613

Really interested in this claim Timmy

Please share your source

Long Sean Silver

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121218894#Comment_121218894

yes that would be nice. perhaps they might morph into a Hare Krishna type outfit?